Chord Hugo Re-Examined

[ALRAINBOW]

Do you listen to PCM or dsd ?

[Priaptor]

Do you listen to PCM or dsd ?

 

Both.

 

I listen to music as recorded. If mastered in DSD I buy it that way and if PCM the same. I am not big on upsampling. I like to listen as it was mastered of course with the exception of old tapes that have been "remastered" and then all bets are off.

 

I have albums where the DSD version sucks and the "lowly" red book is much better. I am not of the belief that high res or DSD has to be better than redbook. Some of my favorite recordings are redbook.

 

My own belief is that so many redbook recordings were mastered poorly but those that weren't are now being processed better than ever with the new vintage of DACS we are all experiencing and I may even venture to say the biggest leap forward is how much better redbook is with current DACS than how they work with high res.

 

Natively mastered DSD as you can buy on NativeDsd can sound amazing and I am a big proponent of DSD. However I am a bigger proponent of a good recording regardless of format.

 

I think the HUGO does a damn good job with DSD it's just that it is so good with redbook I kind of skew my preference with the HUGO for redbook.

[ALRAINBOW]

We very nice reply and thanks. And I can agree right up to the hugo And dsd that's we part big time. I guess it's all about likes and dislikes.

Al

[wisnon]

priaptor, I am amazed you like dsd on the hugo after hearing it on the MSB

[Ned Kelly]

We very nice reply and thanks. And I can agree right up to the hugo And dsd that's we part big time. I guess it's all about likes and dislikes.

Al

 

Al, it's promising that you can now type 'hugo' and 'dsd' in the same sentence without suffering an aneurism - I dont believe that DSD playback is as poor as you would have us believe, but then I havent heard the DirectStream or either of Sony's current wunderkind HDD players. For me, DSD is like ye olde SACD - sometimes I believe I can hear an appreciable difference and other times I struggle to do so - perhaps I need to hear one of those Sony players.

[Priaptor]

Al, it's promising that you can now type 'hugo' and 'dsd' in the same sentence without suffering an aneurism - I dont believe that DSD playback is as poor as you would have us believe, but then I havent heard the DirectStream or either of Sony's current wunderkind HDD players. For me, DSD is like ye olde SACD - sometimes I believe I can hear an appreciable difference and other times I struggle to do so - perhaps I need to hear one of those Sony players.

 

Ned,

 

I agree. Also, DSD doesn't by itself mean "better", "superior" or whatever one wants to call it. There are some truly outstanding DSD albums and some that suck. Whether I am using my uber expensive DAC or my cheapo HUGO neither are going to or should turn a crappy recording into a wonderful recording. Again, I just think it is a relative thing.

 

Incidentally, since we are on the DSD topic and I do have an MSB, MSB is releasing a hardware update to their DACs that will allow for DIRECT DSD up to 256 and no more DoP. We will see and I will report when it is released.

[ALRAINBOW]

My typing stinks as my wording is low level at best. Sorry for this. As I am better than I portray myself but as this is a hobby it's all I got for it. I do enjoy the reading though even if I disagree. Beyond that it becomes choice in what we like and if had to strain as you put it to hear the diffence I would say as you said. But to me its just bad all around. Regarding msb well they said the same thing about the UMT plus and DSD 128 and that is just not going to happen. So if and when they post it I'll try it. After buying the two psu both diamond and dual this got me disgusted. So that's when i built my servers with 2012 and AO. ALL in with linaer psu or battery it is better than my UMT plus.

And the msb and B7 are both much better than with out. No strain to hear it either.

It may be why DSD is better for me but it is there and I cannot listen to the hugo or DS as is with it.

[Priaptor]

My typing stinks as my wording is low level at best. Sorry for this. As I am better than I portray myself but as this is a hobby it's all I got for it. I do enjoy the reading though even if I disagree. Beyond that it becomes choice in what we like and if had to strain as you put it to hear the diffence I would say as you said. But to me its just bad all around. Regarding msb well they said the same thing about the UMT plus and DSD 128 and that is just not going to happen. So if and when they post it I'll try it. After buying the two psu both diamond and dual this got me disgusted. So that's when i built my servers with 2012 and AO. ALL in with linaer psu or battery it is better than my UMT plus.

And the msb and B7 are both much better than with out. No strain to hear it either.

It may be why DSD is better for me but it is there and I cannot listen to the hugo or DS as is with it.

 

The UMT+ is quite a different animal. Despite what MSB claimed it is a modified OPPO 103 transport with ALL the limitations of the OPPO and will never do what it was supposed to be capable of doing. The update is not a "download" but a hardware update. It is physically changing of a board that will allow DIRECT DSD.

 

I too, after trying the UMT+ preferred my own modified CAPS with JCAT over the UMT+. I think if we are comparing a 40K DAC to a 2.5K DAC that speaks to the ability of the HUGO with nothing more needed to be said.

[ALRAINBOW]

But I might be mushbdsrstanding slmething then. Is the proposed update hardware fkr the oppo or our dacs. Vince had told me a while back they were working on a new network server to be above the UMT plus.

[ALRAINBOW]

The update is hard ware for our DACS. It's a plug in part. No need to send it in and about 2 to 3 k. They have just finished the update for the analog DAC. So our dacs are next in about 4 weeks. No plans for the UMT plus .

Al

[ted_b]

Is there a driver option or do you have to do the hardware upgrade spend to just get ASIO drivers? That is what direct DSD means, and unless you ask them to write an ASIO driver for MAC or an ALSA one for Linux you are still going to have DoP if using things like Mac or Linux music servers. I can understand hardware $ for DSD256 (to remain future-proof) but that's serious cash, even for Diamond owners. To put in relevant perspective, more than the cost of another whole Hugo.

 

And I am not 100% convinced (yet) that direct DSD has any sonic benefits over DoP in an optimised music server (i7, AO, etc). For lightweight servers, maybe...but still a tough argument. But I am glad to spend your money to find out.

[ALRAINBOW]

I think msb is feeling the heat after the UMT pkus screwing some got.

as for the sound first they say it's the same and now it's not the same its all bull anyway . I do hear something from adio to wasapi but it's not big. And I only can hear it on a server with AO on it. Really in the end who knows what he'll is better or worse and that is really choice as some love up sampling and now down sampling.

and finally the B7 is very close to the msb and at 1/4 the price. So theres not much to say about msb.

[Priaptor]

But I might be mushbdsrstanding slmething then. Is the proposed update hardware fkr the oppo or our dacs. Vince had told me a while back they were working on a new network server to be above the UMT plus.

 

That is true they are working on a new hardware server. The update I was talking about was the direct to dsd board for our DACs. I wouldn't count on a UMT+ upgrade

[Priaptor]

I think msb is feeling the heat after the UMT pkus screwing some got.

as for the sound first they say it's the same and now it's not the same its all bull anyway . I do hear something from adio to wasapi but it's not big. And I only can hear it on a server with AO on it. Really in the end who knows what he'll is better or worse and that is really choice as some love up sampling and now down sampling.

and finally the B7 is very close to the msb and at 1/4 the price. So theres not much to say about msb.

 

Al,

 

What would be nice is if MSB finally releases, like in their UMT+ a PROI2S interface with their new server where the clock to server is done via their PROI2S board. I think that would be worth it. I agree with Ted about the questionable benefit of Direct to DSD vs DoP especially for the $$

[ALRAINBOW]

Yea when I spoke to Vince today there is no upgrade path. And msb blames oppo for this.

That is funny to me as it says msb on the front.

[wisnon]

Al, it's promising that you can now type 'hugo' and 'dsd' in the same sentence without suffering an aneurism - I dont believe that DSD playback is as poor as you would have us believe, but then I havent heard the DirectStream or either of Sony's current wunderkind HDD players. For me, DSD is like ye olde SACD - sometimes I believe I can hear an appreciable difference and other times I struggle to do so - perhaps I need to hear one of those Sony players.

 

Well he owns all those Dacs and have done for months. A unique position to evaluate them from (and no ownership bias as they are all in his Dac stable). I was there this summer for hours and agree totally with him. It was clear as day, but hey you are free to believe what you want…after all, in the end its only 2 people's opinion, no matter how strongly held. Until you hear them side by side, you will never know for certain for yourself.

[ALRAINBOW]

Well Norman maybe when I am done renovating the office and I have the main system up and running I can do a video of me squinting as I play dsd with a dare I say HUGO oh that hurt ?.

i did listen to the nola speaker like yours for about 5 hours with my dac. They do have more than enough detail to clearly hear the difference . This seems to be just something of choice .

Al

[Priaptor]

Well Norman maybe when I am done renovating the office and I have the main system up and running I can do a video of me squinting as I play dsd with a dare I say HUGO oh that hurt ?.

i did listen to the nola speaker like yours for about 5 hours with my dac. They do have more than enough detail to clearly hear the difference . This seems to be just something of choice .

Al

 

Which NOLAs. Few have the ones I have?

[ALRAINBOW]

Baby grand ref gold I think. They had the copper cone and a ribbon with the small speakers as well. Very nice balance to them.

Good imaging. Close to my infinity sound in some ways but for me the Infinjty has a lock on my heart since I was kid. Don't know why. I own tree pairs.

Yours must sound awesome too.

Al

[Priaptor]

Baby grand ref gold I think. They had the copper cone and a ribbon with the small speakers as well. Very nice balance to them.

Good imaging. Close to my infinity sound in some ways but for me the Infinjty has a lock on my heart since I was kid. Don't know why. I own tree pairs.

Yours must sound awesome too.

Al

 

Yeah I had those (Series II) and traded to the Concert Grands. The Infinitys have a very similar signature. The reason is because the Infinitys were and remain wonderful speakers. Those guys and Carl as one of "those guys" knew and know what they are doing.

 

I have never been a big speaker fan but the Concert Grands got me hook, line and sinker. I really enjoy them. I like to say they are the biggest mini-monitors on the market but they also do everything so well.

[ALRAINBOW]

In audio life it's very hard to be at the top for very long. But it sounds like atleast in speakers we are at the tops of close by tops.

 

my main rig has the irs v ,s. Old but top in its day. But still tops in my heart. Only the gen 1.2 is left to go too. But it's hard to just get to hear them. Maybe some day.

 

The he nolas are top as well something about them just makes it right to me.

I did listen to the Wilson alexia a few times with my dac at innovated audio. There is just something not right with them to my ears.

Pal

[LewinskiH01]

Have you guys tried a good SPDIF-to-USB-converter feeding the Hugo, and what were your findings?

[ALRAINBOW]

I have tried two of them. One was an offramp 5 with all options and psu. Also the AP-1se

and PP. Both were not good for me. Both took away the air around the music. It did the same thing to my DS DAC. I have wondered if it's a FPGA thing. Now running a caps

made a big improvement

al

[LewinskiH01]

I have tried two of them. One was an offramp 5 with all options and psu. Also the AP-1se

and PP. Both were not good for me. Both took away the air around the music. It did the same thing to my DS DAC. I have wondered if it's a FPGA thing. Now running a caps made a big improvement

al

 

Thank you. I also have an AP2 with PP. Good to know.

 

So you are running a CAPS into the Hugo and made a big improvement. What's the O/S, playback software you use? I have a CAPS-like PC running WS2012 with AO and JRiver. And also considering JPlay or HQPlayer.

[ALRAINBOW]

In have the same as you. Win 2012 and AO with j river. But do,you have a I7 PSU and a linear PSU . The two make a difrence as well. If so there is no need for usb converter .Sorry I jus read your system. You see to have it all. I think you are at the max of the dac.