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Death of Audirvana?


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Very interesting, and congratulations to Rob … but won't this become a moot point when v2 of Audirvana is released?

 

--David

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Very interesting, and congratulations to Rob … but won't this become a moot point when v2 of Audirvana is released?

It will be moot with A2, I think.

 

However, it effectively forces anyone wanting to use iTunes to either use Pure Music (which does not operate well with iTunes) or pay ChannelD some royalty - which I'm not against to doing of course. I doubt that a barebones operation such as Damien's would though, and might instead opt to take the feature out.

 

The obvious solution of using proxy files does strike me as akin to patenting symbolic linking, but whatever, a patent is a patent - no matter how frivolous it may seem.

 

I think Damien should patent whatever methodology he came up with to make Audirvana seamlessly work with iTunes without using ghost play all the while disabling iTunes own play engine. That to me is smart. That would only be fair!

 

Miguel

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I first saw this technique employed by the Mac application VideoDrive. You can see that they refer to "pointer files" and "reference files" here: Import Methods

 

I was using this feature back in 2008. Pure Music was introduced in 2010.

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Hmmm, looks frivolous indeed and should be vigorously disputed. There's a lot of crap about software patents unfortunately.

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Software patents, the new lottery.

Does your patent have this weeks winning numbers to make it through the court system?

Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not." — Nelson Pass

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Robert Robinson's Channel D, instead of trying to improve their horrible and expensive music player sought a ‘legal’ solution by which he had to pay?

 

I know in US almost everything can be patented, but this patent is like patenting bottled water.

 

Instead of attorneys should have hired better software developers and some good musicians (with good ears too)...

 

I personally do not use iTunes integration for and interested in the same the next A2 no need of iTunes.

 

I consider it a down and dirty hit, I do not think will bring more users to Pure Music!...

 

Roch

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I don't use Amarra, so I don't know how it works in realm of proxies. Might it be similarly impacted by this patent?

 

Amarra current and a few previous versions couldn't play DSD for squat but promised for Version 3, and would play FLAC only from their immature and underwhelming own play list management. Amarra didn't use pointer files. When I was using PM and audirvana about 2 years ago now, neither would play each other's pointer files, things may have changed by now, starting the patent process. It was a real pain, since iTunes would then read duplicates of Audirvana and PM pointer files. when you played them in each others app, the app would freeze or just play silence. Means the user would have to have two libraries for itunes to manage, a true kludge system.

 

If Audirvana uses its own music database manager, shown in Tokyo recently, then the pointer file issue is dead in the water. iTunes could be used to import music and metadata into the Audirvana database. Integration would be only limited to iTunes playable compatible files and not use the pointer file technology for DSD, FLAC, OGG et al.

 

Sadly this will place more pressure on Damien to release a hurried Version 2.0 of Audirvana, not to sure if there is a grace period with patent introduction.

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Amazon has a patent for white photo backgrounds. Just because Rob got a patent doesn't mean it's enforceable. Couldn't Apple wipe pure music out with an update?

Michael.

 

Of course. Thanks for the free legal advice!...

 

Best,

 

Roch

 

PS/ Anyway I like better plain iTunes than Pure Music...

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Roch, if someone develops a clever solution to a problem, why is it fair to allow everyone to steal it? Why should anyone bother to expend the effort to develop new ideas if everyone can steal them? I applaud Rob for his creative solution which obviously was valuable enough that others copied it.

 

(On the other hand, I have no clue as to what prior art already may have existed and whether the idea therefore deserved to be patented. One hopes the Patent Office examiner did a good job of investigating that, but it's an almost impossible job to do as well as would be ideal.)

 

However, the patent is not as broad as some of you seem to think. It requires a proxy file that "comprises a silent data block comprising a duration and sample rate equal to that of the media file". I believe that the current version of Audirvana does not have that feature.

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Roch, if someone develops a clever solution to a problem, why is it fair to allow everyone to steal it? Why should anyone bother to expend the effort to develop new ideas if everyone can steal them?

 

However, the patent is not as broad as some of you seem to think. It is limited to proxy files that include "a silent data block comprising a duration and sample rate equal to that of the media file". I believe that the current version of Audirvana does not have that feature.

 

Bob, please don't get me wrong, I do believe in patents, but the proxy approach in each player I found are different.

 

My point is (and this my very personal opinion) that Rob has "blood in his eye" (direct translation from Spanish) since A+ success, he's talking about Damien stole his proxy approach for quite a while in this forum...

 

My main goal is to have a player satisfying my music taste plus easy to setup and definitely Pure Music isn't it!...

 

I always try not to talk bad things about a DAC, a music player or whatever, because this is my very personal taste, but in this case, I have to.

 

Best,

 

Roch

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Bob, please don't get me wrong, I do believe in patents, but the proxy approach in each player I found are different.

 

My point is (and this my very personal opinion) that Rob has "blood in his eye" (direct translation from Spanish) since A+ success, he's talking about Damien stole his proxy approach for quite a while in this forum...

 

My main goal is to have a player satisfying my music taste plus easy to setup and definitely Pure Music isn't it!...

 

I always try not to talk bad things about a DAC, a music player or whatever, because this is my very personal taste, but in this case, I have to.

 

Best,

 

Roch

 

Dr. Rob Robinson, the angry man of computer audio software. It was obvious before but if this patent implies that Audirvana cannot sell its wares, then only proven. Frankly not sure the implications but if harmful to advancing the art; it's Edison vs Tesla.

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With respect to all you angry men... Have Channel D announced they will be suing Damien. Before getting up in arms about how Channel D are going to screw the world of computer audiophile perhaps you should wait and see. Perhaps they have already contacted Damien and there is an agreement in place.

 

There is a long distance between a patient to protect your ideas and suing others out of existence!

 

Eloise

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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The voice of reason, thanks Eloise.

With respect to all you angry men... Have Channel D announced they will be suing Damien. Before getting up in arms about how Channel D are going to screw the world of computer audiophile perhaps you should wait and see. Perhaps they have already contacted Damien and there is an agreement in place.

 

There is a long distance between a patient to protect your ideas and suing others out of existence!

 

Eloise

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Audirvana doesn't need itunes.

 

Who needs itunes?

 

So this patent is now irrelevant anyway..

 

Damien can just go on developing 2.0... Whatever..

 

So he's going to be sued for developing a non itunes music data base and media player?

 

Itunes??

 

YAwn..

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Before any conclusion, should consider that this is an US patent. No evidence that it has been extended to Europe.

And may be it exists prior arts too.

 

A+ started early 2011

this patent was filed in June 11.

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Amazon has a patent for white photo backgrounds. Just because Rob got a patent doesn't mean it's enforceable. Couldn't Apple wipe pure music out with an update?

Michael.

 

In my humble opinion... Pure Vinyl probably has quite a few bits that rightfully deserve a patent. Maybe the same is true of Pure Music. But patenting something like symbolic linking (which has existed in unix since it's inception) is something I have a problem with. ChannelD should instead spend their time figuring out how to properly integrate with iTunes bc frankly is a major POS. In particular given that Audirvana has proven it is possible to do seamlessly - so I hope Damien takes the time to shove it back at them.

 

Whether ChannelD will enforce or not is in question, but there's clearly some intention of that or they would have not bothered to submit a patent application.

 

I bought PM simply to support the industry (same w Amarra, which is, well, just non-existant on my list of possible software). No more.

 

Miguel

mini+Roon > RAAT > dCS Rossini DAC + dCS Rossini Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V 9” + Dynavector XV-1s > vdH The Grail

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

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Before any conclusion, should consider that this is an US patent. No evidence that it has been extended to Europe.

And may be it exists prior arts too.

 

A+ started early 2011

this patent was filed in June 11.

 

A+ with the feature could become illegal in the US. Moreover, if Damien decides not to remove the feature and not sell to US users then Audirvana 2 might not be downloadable here either. This would not be very reasonable but frankly possible. It would be tricky to prevent purchase of one and not the other piece of software.

 

If this is the case, I would have to move to Jriver or similar bc I will refuse to use or buy anything from ChannelD anymore.

 

Miguel

mini+Roon > RAAT > dCS Rossini DAC + dCS Rossini Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V 9” + Dynavector XV-1s > vdH The Grail

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

system pics

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I have been very pleased with using PM, then A+, now PM 2. But this makes want to try JRiver.

How

Much is the full boat with JRiver?

 

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With respect to all you angry men... Have Channel D announced they will be suing Damien. Before getting up in arms about how Channel D are going to screw the world of computer audiophile perhaps you should wait and see. Perhaps they have already contacted Damien and there is an agreement in place.

 

There is a long distance between a patient to protect your ideas and suing others out of existence!

 

Eloise

 

"ChannelD has announced they will be suing Damien." What else needs to be said?

 

Mr Robinson: you're a hack.

mini+Roon > RAAT > dCS Rossini DAC + dCS Rossini Clock 

SME 20/3 + SME V 9” + Dynavector XV-1s > vdH The Grail

Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo

system pics

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