Free DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256 session tracks (stereo, multi and binaural)!

[Synfreak]

But DST compression (atm for DSD64 material only) IS quite efficient.

 

And even RAR packing could be quite effective - depending on the settings - with DSD material (non DST of course).

[Maldur]

I compared the efficiency of lossless packing:

 

I would be surprised if it worked without any update to the encoder, but it probably wouldn't harm to give it a try.

As You see, Wavpack can work very well with DoP-PCM. But size/efficiency is practically same as by Flac.

 

Btw, all these files are playable as DSD with my Amanero interface .

 

...Aah, I was little over-optimistic - Wavpack with DoP128 is exeption, because I not found a player with capability for Wavpack and 352kHz sampling rate.

[Hiro]

But DST compression (atm for DSD64 material only) IS quite efficient.

 

Exactly. It stores stereo and mch. DSD64 data on a single DVD disc.

[Hiro]

...Aah, I was little over-optimistic - Wavpack with DoP128 is exeption, because I not found a player with capability for Wavpack and 352kHz sampling rate.

 

Back to square one then

 

MP3TAG and FOOBAR are already DSD compatible (up to DSD512?). Time for FLAC to add DSD capability.......

[Hiro]

It's an interesting area to watch. Note that Mytek is now taking pre-orders on a DSD256 DAC (Manhattan) for the home + audiophile market. A Mytek pro version with 8 channels of DSD256 based on the new Mytek DAC technology is likely to come in the future.

 

Intriguing!

 

Indeed. There are two possible explanations of this. Either Mytek engineers found a way of addressing the implementation problems of DSD256, or they are oblivious of some DSD implementation nuances Andreas Koch, Ed Meitner and Ted Smith know about, and take into account when designing DSD converters.

[bmoura]

Indeed. There are two possible explanations of this. Either Mytek engineers found a way of addressing the implementation problems of DSD256, or they are oblivious of some DSD implementation nuances Andreas Koch, Ed Meitner and Ted Smith know about, and take into account when designing DSD converters.

 

Mytek was one of the pioneers in the DSD DAC world. I'm very sure that Michal and his team are very familiar with the pros and cons of adding a DSD256 mode to all of their home audio and pro products. Ditto for Pyramix when they added DSD256 to their pro products a year ago.

[Hiro]

Mytek was one of the pioneers in the DSD DAC world. I'm very sure that Michal and his team are very familiar with the pros and cons of adding a DSD256 mode to all of their home audio and pro products. Ditto for Pyramix when they added DSD256 to their pro products a year ago.

 

What about the admonitions of DSD audio gurus like Andreas Koch and Ed Meitner to use the sweet spot 128x rate?

[bmoura]

What about the admonitions of DSD audio gurus like Andreas Koch and Ed Meitner to use the sweet spot 128x rate?

 

Some would put Michal in the DSD audio guru category as well....

[tailspn]

What about the admonitions of DSD audio gurus like Andreas Koch and Ed Meitner to use the sweet spot 128x rate?

 

Hi Hiro,

 

DSD 128fs may indeed be a "sweet spot" to designers of DAC's implemented with discreet components (shift registers/flip-flops and discreet resistors). But for IC designs, the parasitic circuit inductance's and capacitance's are orders of magnitude lower, and therefore those implementations can operate at faster clock frequencies.

 

There's no technological advantage, other than converter implementation, of 128fs over 256fs, or higher. I also would say it's the optimal bit rate if I couldn't buy practical components to build my A/D or D/A product capable of operating at higher bit rates.

 

Remember, DSD is really 1-bit two level pulse density modulation of a squarewave/bit train/clock where the instantaneous audio signal level determines the density of the bits in the bit stream at that point in time. For practical purposes, you could look at DSD bit rate as ONLY determining the frequency of the onset of the shifted noise above roughly -120dBfs. That's approximately 20kHz for 64fs, 40KHz for 128fs, 80KHz for 256fs. That's all it does, all that it changes changes.

[Hiro]

Remember, DSD is really 1-bit two level pulse density modulation of a squarewave/bit train/clock where the instantaneous audio signal level determines the density of the bits in the bit stream at that point in time. For practical purposes, you could look at DSD bit rate as ONLY determining the frequency of the onset of the shifted noise above roughly -120dBfs. That's approximately 20kHz for 64fs, 40KHz for 128fs, 80KHz for 256fs. That's all it does, all that it changes changes.

 

 

Hi Tailspn,

 

Here's what the move to DSD128 (at 5.6448 MHz) gave Ted Smith and his DirectStream DAC:

 

"Double rate DSD allows amelioration of many of the issues cited. For example the DSD noise hump in the DS doesn't go to the -40dB that Elk states, it stays less than -80dB or -90dB. Also the hump doesn't peak around 30-50kHz – in the DS it doesn't grow above -120dB until approx. 60kHz. This leaves the effective bandwidth well over that of 88.2kHz PCM (closer to that of 176.4 or 192kHz)"

 

^^What's interesting the use of double-DSD rate not only moved the noise beyond 60kHz (still at -120dB), but it caused the noise to 'never' actually exceed 80-90dB.

 

DSD 128fs may indeed be a "sweet spot" to designers of DAC's implemented with discreet components (shift registers/flip-flops and discreet resistors). But for IC designs, the parasitic circuit inductance's and capacitance's are orders of magnitude lower, and therefore those implementations can operate at faster clock frequencies.

 

Is settling time not an issue in IC designs operating at 256fs?

[tailspn]

Here's what the move to DSD128 (at 5.6448 MHz) gave Ted Smith and his DirectStream DAC

 

Again, if as a designer/salesman, I couldn't support faster bit rates than 128fs, I'd feature the benefits I could support. Also, the noise shaping profile is very DAC dependent, based on the filters employed. If you simply feed a resistor capacitor integrator (the actual basis of Ted's DAC design output stage) with the DSD bit stream at various bit rates, you'd see the noise shaping profile I stated in my previous post. It's the logic preceding the output stage, implementing the filters, that alter the fundamental noise shaping profile.

 

My only point Hiro is to be careful about separating the marketing justifications/pronouncements from the underlining technical facts. I'd agree with the the designers you quote that with today's available component technology for the DAC architectures they've chosen, 128fs is the "sweet spot" DSD bit rate. But there are other DAC architectures where that is not accurate.

 

I'm not qualified answering your settling time question, other than to say the measured THD+noise specs for the ESS9018 chip packaged in a Horus is below -126dBfs at 256fs. So I would think not. On the pure format basis though, there is a settling time issue with PCM, since it's a digital value per sample. Settling time is an accuracy ingredient, and a significant contributor in the A/D conversion, and I'd presume D/A. The same does not hold for DSD (PDM), since it's a pulse density modulated bit stream representation of the original analog signal, which has no associated digital value. As long as the fundamental bit rate of that bit stream is at least 100X higher than the highest audio frequency of interest (64fs DSD is 150X), then the considerable noise (>99%) can be/is shifted out of the original audio signal band. It's all really that simple.

[Hiro]

Again, if as a designer/salesman, I couldn't support faster bit rates than 128fs, I'd feature the benefits I could support. Also, the noise shaping profile is very DAC dependent, based on the filters employed. If you simply feed a resistor capacitor integrator (the actual basis of Ted's DAC design output stage) with the DSD bit stream at various bit rates, you'd see the noise shaping profile I stated in my previous post. It's the logic preceding the output stage, implementing the filters, that alter the fundamental noise shaping profile.

 

I get it. But still the fact that filtering implemented on DSD128 signal allows the designer to get this low noise floor is rather impressive.

 

My only point Hiro is to be careful about separating the marketing justifications/pronouncements from the underlining technical facts. I'd agree with the the designers you quote that with today's available component technology for the DAC architectures they've chosen, 128fs is the "sweet spot" DSD bit rate.

 

I have no interest in "marketing justifications/pronouncements" whatsoever, and I don't think that Eelco Grimm's or Andreas Koch's justifications for the use of DSD128 in their products are motivated by marketing. As you said, their stance on the issue simply reflects their chosen architectures.

 

But there are other DAC architectures where that is not accurate.

 

If so, that's a very positive piece of information. The last thing I would want right now is for record companies to start using DSD256 ADCs which are in some way inferior to the DSD128 ones, which are still not yet that common. Ed Meitner's ADC8 Mk IV remains the only discrete A/D of this type. All others are using off-the-shelf Burr Brown chips...

[tailspn]

If so, that's a very positive piece of information. The last thing I would want right now is for record companies to start using DSD256 ADCs which are in some way inferior to the DSD128 ones, which are still not yet that common. Ed Meitner's ADC8 Mk IV remains the only discrete A/D of this type. All others are using off-the-shelf Burr Brown chips...

 

If you mean 128fs DSD capable ADC's, then yes, the EMM is the most widely used in recording. But I know of no one who uses it at 128fs. Except for boutique recording engineers/producers using the Korg, there's virtually no one recording DSD128fs.

 

Up to recently, there have been no professional DSD post production tools. Horus/Hapi and Pyramix have changed that radically, and at very attractive prices. I suspect you'll soon see a significant increase in 128fs/256fs recordings availability. It's one of the reasons nativedsd.com was created; to provide a delivery link to customers for these emerging new projects.

[Hiro]

If you mean 128fs DSD capable ADC's, then yes, the EMM is the most widely used in recording. But I know of no one who uses it at 128fs. Except for boutique recording engineers/producers using the Korg, there's virtually no one recording DSD128fs.

 

The idea of offering DSD files at 2x DSD rate is still very new. We probably just need to give the labels some more time to figure out which DSD128 ADC/s are the best for the job. Maybe not all engineers are even aware that the Meitners are DSD128 capable?

 

On a side note, it would be nice if the Meitner had any competition in the form of another chipless 5.6MHz DSD ADC...

[Sam Lord]

All of Grimm's ADCs (one model, the DSD64-only AD-1) have had discrete inputs and modulators. I assume they will use the same basic structure but with DSD128 in their UC-1. Their asynchronous design is one of those ideas that seems obvious after you study it, but wasn't before: The modulation from clock noise is reduced by over 10dB compared with capacitor-input designs.

[Sam Lord]

Sorry this is somewhat OT, but some others may find it helpful. Since I can now play DSD128, I want to download some DSD music.

 

EDIT: [Finally found a menu path to place a song into JRMC. If it doesn't play, I'll come back with further questions.]

 

I have Mac OS10.9.3 and JRMC and HQPlayer. Creating the text file with path doesn't work. I don't know whether I have to keep the same file type in every playlist: can I mix DSF and FLAC files?

 

An additional problem: HQPlayer won't recognize my m3u playlists, I have to build m3u8 playlists by drag-and-dropping every album or song, one at a time. Any help with this would be most welcome also. Thanks in advance for any assistance!

[4est]

A big plus +1- Thanks Ted!!!

Downloading as I speak.

 

Love the site. Elegant, informational, warm and inviting, sophisticated and super easy to navigate. It's very smart to give away a healthy sample of songs to really sit down and enjoy and compare. This is the kind of thing that will get people engaged in DSD music.

 

Here's to hoping that my Mac/Dac/and Audirvana make it easy for a goofball like me.

 

Thanks!!

[ted_b]

Sorry this is somewhat OT, but some others may find it helpful. Since I can now play DSD128, I want to download some DSD music.

 

EDIT: [Finally found a menu path to place a song into JRMC. If it doesn't play, I'll come back with further questions.]

 

I have Mac OS10.9.3 and JRMC and HQPlayer. Creating the text file with path doesn't work. I don't know whether I have to keep the same file type in every playlist: can I mix DSF and FLAC files?

 

An additional problem: HQPlayer won't recognize my m3u playlists, I have to build m3u8 playlists by drag-and-dropping every album or song, one at a time. Any help with this would be most welcome also. Thanks in advance for any assistance!

 

Sam, You need to spend 40 min on my 2 20min videos on setting up (and advanced tips) for audiophiles for JRiver. Then you'll know what you need. Grab a coffee and watch the screencasts.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/j-river-tips-and-techniques-user-experiences-repository-13684/index3.html#post272960

 

But the simple answer is:

1) file->library->import->configure auto import (which tells JRIver what music directories to automatically watch 24/7

2) once importing is done, then simply go to songs and right click to add to plyalist or go to playlist and create new.

 

It's really not difficult once you get past the quick learning curve. Then you'll find it's flexibility is amazing (custom views that you can import to jremote, mass tagging tricks, etc). I also have dozens of sacreenshots on that thread I pointed to above.

[Sam Lord]

Thank you Ted, what a great resource! I did find a few other videos that help with Flac and iTunes, some by Chris, oddly they don't appear in a Google search but only by searching in Youtube. I managed to get a sample David Elias DSD song to play. I'll watch you videos later today (must get sleep).

[bmoura]

Thank you Ted, what a great resource! I did find a few other videos that help with Flac and iTunes, some by Chris, oddly they don't appear in a Google search but only by searching in Youtube. I managed to get a sample David Elias DSD song to play. I'll watch you videos later today (must get sleep).

 

If you dial by the Oppo web site, they have a few David Elias songs in Stereo and Multichannel DSD & FLAC to download for free at DSD64 resolution.

OPPO Digital - Demo Tracks by DSD Pioneer Musician David Elias

 

And of course there are the free Just Listen downloads (Multichannel & Stereo) at DSD128 (and DSD64, DSD256) on the Just Listen web site.

https://justlisten.nativedsd.com/albums/just-listen-1-compilation

 

Caution, they may make you want to buy the David Elias albums as downloads - as well as the ones from Channel Classics, MA Recordings, A Far Cry and Eudora Records!

[Bob Stern]

2014 Telarc classical

 

Does anyone (Ted or Teresa?) know whether Telarc's 2014 classical recordings were done in DSD?

 

The Brahms symphonies by Axelrod are being sold on ProStudioMasters only in 24-bit, 44.1 KHz format.

[Michael J Bishop]

2014 Telarc classical

 

Does anyone (Ted or Teresa?) know whether Telarc's 2014 classical recordings were done in DSD?

 

The Brahms symphonies by Axelrod are being sold on ProStudioMasters only in 24-bit, 44.1 KHz format.

 

Hello, Bob.

 

Unless there is a "Five/Four Productions" recording engineering credit it is unlikely that a post-2009 Telarc classical release was recorded in DSD. All projects that Five/Four Productions has produced for Telarc are recorded in either 64x or 128x DSD and mastered with our exclusive REVEAL-SDM Technology for the CD release. Releases by Zuill Bailey with the Indianapolis Symphony and North Carolina Symphony orchestras, plus all of Hiromi's releases on Telarc Jazz were recorded in DSD.

 

Of course we are also performing similar work for labels such as Linn Records, Dixie Frog and others.

[Bob Stern]

Welcome to CA, Michael!

 

Thanks both for answering my question and for so many great recordings!

[ted_b]

Welcome, Michael. Long time no talk.

 

I had the wonderful pleasure of having these great pair of ears over to my house and he picked out one spot in my dedicated music surround room to fix and i did so! What a treat (he also helped me transport a pair of ATCs to a gentleman). His personal tour of Telarc (I live in NE Ohio) was a highlight in my surround audio life.

 

We look forward to more posts from you, Michael.

[bobusn]

(he also helped me transport a pair of ATCs to a gentleman).

 

Hello, Ted,

 

Gee, you use that term "gentleman" pretty loosely, har, har.

 

This "gentleman" appreciates Michael's assistance with the transport as well. The ATCs still sound great, Ted! Thank you. And thanks again, Michael!