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Thanks, Chris. Saw him twice, completely blew my mind both times. The first time, a friend and I saw him open(!) for Herbie Hancock, around the time Herbie was crossing over with Head Hunters. We were eagerly awaiting Herbie until we saw Miles. After Miles was done, we listened to Herbie's first song - fine, but on a completely different plane from what Miles had just done. We just looked at each other and got up and left, no insult intended to Herbie, but there was nothing that could touch Miles.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

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Wow, Jud, that's harsh. Herbie has written and performed some of the best music of the past 40 years-some of it definitely on the level of Miles' best stuff (why do you think Miles played so many of Herbie's compositions?). Maybe after that one song he played some mindblowing stuff.

 

Don't get me wrong, I own about 20 Miles albums - from all eras and styles.

 

Thanks, Chris. Saw him twice, completely blew my mind both times. The first time, a friend and I saw him open(!) for Herbie Hancock, around the time Herbie was crossing over with Head Hunters. We were eagerly awaiting Herbie until we saw Miles. After Miles was done, we listened to Herbie's first song - fine, but on a completely different plane from what Miles had just done. We just looked at each other and got up and left, no insult intended to Herbie, but there was nothing that could touch Miles.

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Wow, Jud, that's harsh. Herbie has written and performed some of the best music of the past 40 years-some of it definitely on the level of Miles' best stuff (why do you think Miles played so many of Herbie's compositions?). Maybe after that one song he played some mindblowing stuff.

 

Don't get me wrong, I own about 20 Miles albums - from all eras and styles.

 

I still love a lot of Herbie's stuff from throughout his career. Really, although it sounds funny to say it, it wasn't about Herbie at all. Could have been anyone that night. It's just that for me (and my friend, who got me into him), Miles was always on a completely different level.

 

(Second time I saw him, John McLaughlin, with Shankar and Zakir Hussain, opened for him. I have never seen guitar playing like that before or since. You know how sometimes you "play" guitar solos in your mind, and you're great, because it doesn't actually require you to use your fingers? Well, McLaughlin was playing faster than I could think! And I would have wondered if maybe it was just random, except Shankar was playing the same notes right along with him! Then Miles came out and made everyone forget about the miraculous playing they'd just seen. The music was "out there" to where you just barely caught the sketches of tune and rhythm that held it together, it was so funky 70-year-olds were boogieing their rear ends off, it was incomparable mastery of instruments, it was beauty to make you cry, it was everything you could want.)

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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We just looked at each other and got up and left, no insult intended to Herbie, but there was nothing that could touch Miles.

 

Perhaps no insult was intended but, IMO, whenever you get up and leave in the middle of a performance, it is an insult to the performer.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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As a New Yorker, I lived five blocks from Miles Davis' town house off West End Avenue. Pharaoh Sanders lived in a town house apartment on 77th Street contiguous with my girl friend's (at the time) apartment on 76 St. He practiced for hours. I listened sitting on her apartment floor leaning against the common wall for hours. Often.

 

Saw Miles many times in venues in New York. Speaking of walking out, Miles Davis one night during the set after his solo with his exquisite quintet playing at the Five Spot (I think it was that venue) walked out and did not return for maybe five minutes. Fortunately he returned and finished the set.

 

Saw Herbie Hancock perform several times as well. They are both play at genius levels in musicality, technique, composition. I believe I have over one hundred of Miles Davis' albums and half as many of Herbie Hancock's.

 

Honestly, it makes no sense to me to compare them or rate them. Of course, I am not suggesting that walking out on a musician's performance is beyond the pale. Lord knows what we do and for the reason's that drive our behavior. I am just grateful Miles lived to fill my library with his artistry. And Herbie Hancock survives for me to enjoy his music which is also changeable as was Miles'.

 

Enjoying the music,

Richard

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Saw Miles many times in venues in New York. Speaking of walking out, Miles Davis one night during the set after his solo with his exquisite quintet playing at the Five Spot (I think it was that venue) walked out and did not return for maybe five minutes. Fortunately he returned and finished the set.

 

 

Five minutes, just enough time to shoot up.

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Perhaps no insult was intended but, IMO, whenever you get up and leave in the middle of a performance, it is an insult to the performer.

 

Dude. :) It was the first song and folks were roaming around the place still finding seats or running to the bathroom after finding seats, so I don't think anyone noticed.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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IMO, no one should be put at the same level as Miles. No one.

Also IMO, HH's best work was as a member of Miles' band.

 

Very happy to hear about the movie so maybe "the kids" will get a chance to discover his brilliance and coolness.

Nice to see that HH is part of the project.

You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star

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Everyone has their cross to bear. As can be seen from your posts.

 

 

"There was a lot of dope around the music scene and a lot of musicians were deep into drug, especially heroin. People--musicians--were considered hip in some circles if they shot smack. Some of the younger guys like Dexter Gordan, Art Blakey, J.J Johnson, Sonny Rollins, Jackie McLean, and myself -all of us--started getting heavily into heroin around the same time. Despite the fact that Freddie Webster had died from some bad stuff. Besides Bird, Sonny Stitt, Bud Powell, Fats Navarro, Gene Ammons were all using heroin, not to mention Joe Guy and Billie Holiday too. There were a lot of white musicians--Stan Getz, Gerry Mulligan, Red Rodney, and Chet Baker who were also heavily into shooting drugs."

Miles Davis in "Miles the autobiography", page 129

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"There was a lot of dope around the music scene and a lot of musicians were deep into drug, especially heroin. People--musicians--were considered hip in some circles if they shot smack. Some of the younger guys like Dexter Gordan, Art Blakey, J.J Johnson, Sonny Rollins, Jackie McLean, and myself -all of us--started getting heavily into heroin around the same time. Despite the fact that Freddie Webster had died from some bad stuff. Besides Bird, Sonny Stitt, Bud Powell, Fats Navarro, Gene Ammons were all using heroin, not to mention Joe Guy and Billie Holiday too. There were a lot of white musicians--Stan Getz, Gerry Mulligan, Red Rodney, and Chet Baker who were also heavily into shooting drugs."

Miles Davis in "Miles the autobiography", page 129

 

My apologies. I took the comment wrong. Those were tumultuous times for an awful lot of people. I was too quick to judge.

David

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No one here with any knowledge of music, jazz in particular, will argue that drugs & alcohol where prevalent within the community of musicians being referenced. The same may be said about many artists from nearly any genre who broke the barriers of what the world thought ART was & could be, leaving unrivaled & cherished masterworks behind.

 

To call out Miles' use of heron is about as insightful as declaring night to be dark.

Bill

 

Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob

 

....just an "ON" switch, Please!

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No one here with any knowledge of music, jazz in particular, will argue that drugs & alcohol where prevalent within the community of musicians being referenced. The same may be said about many artists from nearly any genre who broke the barriers of what the world thought ART was & could be, leaving unrivaled & cherished masterworks behind.

 

To call out Miles' use of heron is about as insightful as declaring night to be dark.

 

What he said. Maybe with spell check, but, yeah, even though "RealAudio" may be right, timing and delivery mean a lot. Struck me as cynical in this context, as many of his posts do in most contexts. Try bringing something positive to what is intended to be a positive thread.

1070957250_Imprimatur.NihilObstatSepia3Crop(2).jpg.2162a44365e84a5df7d456bf8026ed67.jpg

 

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"There was a lot of dope around the music scene and a lot of musicians were deep into drug, especially heroin. People--musicians--were considered hip in some circles if they shot smack. Some of the younger guys like Dexter Gordan, Art Blakey, J.J Johnson, Sonny Rollins, Jackie McLean, and myself -all of us--started getting heavily into heroin around the same time. Despite the fact that Freddie Webster had died from some bad stuff. Besides Bird, Sonny Stitt, Bud Powell, Fats Navarro, Gene Ammons were all using heroin, not to mention Joe Guy and Billie Holiday too. There were a lot of white musicians--Stan Getz, Gerry Mulligan, Red Rodney, and Chet Baker who were also heavily into shooting drugs."

Miles Davis in "Miles the autobiography", page 129

 

Richard would have to be older than I think he is to have been referring to the same period Miles describes. Freddie Webster's death is referred to as a lesson - this occurred in 1947. Charlie Parker died in 1955. Davis was addicted to heroin during his "blue period," 1950-1954, and successfully kicked the habit at the end of that period.

 

Richard is more likely to have seen Davis suffering the effects of arthritis and/or sickle-cell anemia, both of which were tremendously painful. The arthritis eventually led in the '70s and later to multiple hip replacement surgeries.

 

Edit: Just checked, and Davis' various quintets played from 1955-1969. So even if Richard would have seen him during the first year of the earliest of these, it would have been after Davis was no longer addicted.

 

Additional edit: The Five Spot opened in September 1956.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Richard would have to be older than I think he is to have been referring to the same period Miles describes. Freddie Webster's death is referred to as a lesson - this occurred in 1947. Charlie Parker died in 1955. Davis was addicted to heroin during his "blue period," 1950-1954, and successfully kicked the habit at the end of that period.

 

Richard is more likely to have seen Davis suffering the effects of arthritis and/or sickle-cell anemia, both of which were tremendously painful. The arthritis eventually led in the '70s and later to multiple hip replacement surgeries.

 

Edit: Just checked, and Davis' various quintets played from 1955-1969. So even if Richard would have seen him during the first year of the earliest of these, it would have been after Davis was no longer addicted.

 

Additional edit: The Five Spot opened in September 1956.

 

I was born in 1943. As a young teenager deeply into Jazz music, I attended all the jazz venues (under age). I always dressed for the occasion; and inexplicably, no one ever stopped me from entering venues in the East Village, Greenwich Village and midtown such as Basin Street East. I started listening to Jazz on AM Radio in my late adolescent years to Symphony Sid. Symphony Sid would announce who was performing where; and into my teenage years I just started going to hear the music live.

 

The first time I heard Miles Davis on radio I was hooked. I lived on 83rd street just off Broadway. I often passed by Miles Davis's town house on either 77th or 78th Street between West End Avenue and Riverside Drive on the way back from Riverside Park along the Hudson River. One day he was standing outside in a conversation with another person and the conversation was not going well for the unidentified person. I was star struck. And literally stopped in my tracks ignoring the fact that I was standing there intruding, listening to a private conversation. The conversation ended rather abruptly; and Miles Davis exited into his town house. The guy was not happy and turned to me and started complaining to me that Miles Davis doesn't pay his bills. I made some inane comment expressing suprise.

 

Elvin Jones also performed at the Five Spot. And was unfortunately a heroin user. His sets never betrayed the use. He played with such a musicality as to be mesmerizing. I sat 15 feet from Thelonious Monk at the Village Gate listening to genius with a joint dangling from his lips. I believe Monk died from illnesses and not drugs as did Miles Davis, Wes Montgomery and so many marvelous musicians. Bill Evans my favorite jazz pianist shortened his life because of drugs. I believe Getz was very ill and not from drugs. Brad Mehldau be careful.

 

Those sets in the 50s and 60s I was fortunate to witness were the best music listening sets and experiences of my life which I will never forget. It is their music I remember and their humanity. I make no judgment except to be grateful for their genius. Good medicine for me especially at my age.

 

Good research, Jud.

 

Enjoying the magic and the music,

Richard

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I was figuring you for 21 or thereabouts at the time, Richard, so not too far off. :)

 

Edit: And I was guessing "the time" to be later in the '50s.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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My lack of understanding of computer audio led me to this site.

 

The abundance of technical knowledge kept me coming back.

 

The shared passion for listening to music the way the artists intended is what gives this place heart.

 

But a thread like this one really transcends all of that. I could listen to stories about Miles and other jazz giants all damn day long. Thanks for sharing guys.

 

Here's to hoping that Don Cheadle gets it right.

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My lack of understanding of computer audio led me to this site.

 

The abundance of technical knowledge kept me coming back.

 

The shared passion for listening to music the way the artists intended is what gives this place heart.

 

But a thread like this one really transcends all of that. I could listen to stories about Miles and other jazz giants all damn day long. Thanks for sharing guys.

 

Here's to hoping that Don Cheadle gets it right.

 

Imagining Don Cheadle made up to resemble Miles Davis. He looks on the way to a resemblance. I also hope he gets Miles Davis right and models him convincingly, if only cosmetically and assumes the physicality. But short of Miles' illness. That would not be ecological to model Miles Davis to that extent. I have RA and have an inkling about what Davis went through during those very tough health issues that had nothing to do with opiates. Getting the music down and abundantly will create a dimension and allow our imagination to fill in the rest. So looking forward to this project's release. Appreciating the quality of life experiences when one's illnesses become overwhelming. Still, Kind of blue when he passed.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

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To call out Miles' use of heron is about as insightful as declaring night to be dark.

 

Jud doesn't say exactly when he saw McLaughlin warm up for Miles, but if it was with Shakti, then it would have been sometime in 1975 or later. Miles, in a rather well known way, kicked his heroin habit in 1954, so not just a silly remark but not even close to being factual.

 

(And I absolutely don't agree that Herbie's best work was done while he was with Miles. What's instructive about the whole Miles/Herbie thing is that Miles was so great at discovering young talent and putting it in front of a larger audience. This is something a lot of the most influential jazz musicians have in common and speaks to the collaborative nature of the form.)

 

I hope this film gets made. I think Cheadle would be great playing Miles (though based on the end of the video, I hope he doesn't do his own playing).

 

--David

Listening Room: Mac mini (Roon Core) > iMac (HQP) > exaSound PlayPoint (as NAA) > exaSound e32 > W4S STP-SE > Benchmark AHB2 > Wilson Sophia Series 2 (Details)

Office: Mac Pro >  AudioQuest DragonFly Red > JBL LSR305

Mobile: iPhone 6S > AudioQuest DragonFly Black > JH Audio JH5

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Jud doesn't say exactly when he saw McLaughlin warm up for Miles, but if it was with Shakti, then it would have been sometime in 1975 or later. Miles, in a rather well known way, kicked his heroin habit in 1954, so not just a silly remark but not even close to being factual.

 

--David

 

At a guess I would say the concert was some time between 1987-1990, more likely toward the earlier end.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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At a guess I would say the concert was some time between 1987-1990, more likely toward the earlier end.

 

(OT) Thanks, BTW, for causing me to think about Shakti. I always really loved those albums (which I had on vinyl, long since departed), so I believe I shall avail myself of those CD's, which I see are available on Amazon at reasonable prices.

 

Wouldn't have expected to get to this point starting with a film about Miles, but that's what serendipity is all about.

 

--David

Listening Room: Mac mini (Roon Core) > iMac (HQP) > exaSound PlayPoint (as NAA) > exaSound e32 > W4S STP-SE > Benchmark AHB2 > Wilson Sophia Series 2 (Details)

Office: Mac Pro >  AudioQuest DragonFly Red > JBL LSR305

Mobile: iPhone 6S > AudioQuest DragonFly Black > JH Audio JH5

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(OT) Thanks, BTW, for causing me to think about Shakti. I always really loved those albums (which I had on vinyl, long since departed), so I believe I shall avail myself of those CD's, which I see are available on Amazon at reasonable prices.

 

Wouldn't have expected to get to this point starting with a film about Miles, but that's what serendipity is all about.

 

--David

 

Moi aussi! Just ordered two Shakti CDs from Amazon.com. Must be contagious. ? Saturday.

Enjoy the music,

Richard

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