PS Audio "Sprout" - audiophile HW for millenials?

[firedog]

The following is a press release issued by PS Audio.

 

Boulder, CO | 9/18/15 - Last year veteran audio manufacturer PS Audio introduced Sprout, a small integrated amplifier designed to appeal to entry-level buyers and attract younger enthusiasts to audio. CEO Paul McGowan felt this step into untested waters was needed to help specialty audio survive and grow.

 

“Sprout was a hit with our customers, but it wasn’t a home run with the target audience,” said McGowan. “We haven’t made as much headway into the new market as we’d hoped, and we’ve seen that for entry-level consumers, $799 was just too expensive.

 

“Building Sprout was a leap of faith on our part, and required a major investment that we’ve repaid, paving the way to restructured partner pricing. To us, and our dealers, developing the future of our industry is far more important than maintaining standard margins. So, to make Sprout accessible to even more music lovers, we’re cutting the price to $499. Sprout was a bargain at $799; at $499, it’s a total no-brainer.”

 

Sprout was designed by Sales Director Scott McGowan to be a simple, elegant solution for music lovers to play their tunes from records, CDs and smartphones in today’s smaller homes. “I designed Sprout to be for Millennials and 30-somethings like me,“ said Scott. “Houses are smaller these days—perfect for Sprout, but unfortunately, so are incomes. We expect Sprout will get into a lot more homes at $499.”

 

The $499 price is a permanent change, not a promotional special, and goes into effect September 18. Sprout at $499 is the same little giant that received rave reviews and appeared on magazine covers. Sprout hasn’t changed—just its price, and for the better!

 

Sprout is available direct from the PS Audio website, from dealers, and from many distributors. Price may vary in overseas markets.

 

I would say this is a serious killer item at this price point. Amazing center for a startup system.

[mourip]

Isn't this already sorta covered by two NAD products except for the phono input?

[firedog]

Isn't this already sorta covered by two NAD products except for the phono input?

 

Part of the point of the device is the phono input - to attract the 25 and up crowd who are into vinyl.

[Audio_ELF]

I'm surprised PS Audio haven't either produced matching speakers or linked up with someone to sell the package through non-audiophile specialists...

[firedog]

I'm surprised PS Audio haven't either produced matching speakers or linked up with someone to sell the package through non-audiophile specialists...

 

As far as non-audiophile specialists - I'm guessing they feel obligated to their dealer network.

The speakers add on might work though.

[Paul R]

I would say this is a serious killer item at this price point. Amazing center for a startup system.

 

I don't know why, but the Sprout leaves me absolutely cold. No interest in it at all, which is odd - since it is a nice piece of hardware. I think it is just targeted at a difference audience than me.

 

Still, dropping the price to $500 will definitely make it more available to more people. Dropping it to $249 would be closer to what it takes to make it a "killer" product though. IMNSHO, YMMV, TINAR, etc.

 

-Paul

[trappy]

It's that "oak" top. Screams cheesy.

[Bikutoru]

" the phono input - to attract the 25 and up crowd who are into vinyl"

 

And the luck of remote, is suppose to attract hipsters that cannot figure out what a remote is

[firedog]

I'm surprised PS Audio haven't either produced matching speakers or linked up with someone to sell the package through non-audiophile specialists...

At his forum, Paul McGowan answered me that they are considering it, but it isn't easy to find a suitable speaker (price and quality) with a manufacturer willing to bundle. He totally agreed with the concept, though.

[Bill Leebens]

At his forum, Paul McGowan answered me that they are considering it, but it isn't easy to find a suitable speaker (price and quality) with a manufacturer willing to bundle. He totally agreed with the concept, though.

 

Hi, gents--

Responding to several comments, so pardon me if I bounce around.

 

..."that 'oak' top..." It's walnut, real wood. Different strokes for different folks; most like it.

 

..."dropping it to $249..." is not doable. Getting it to $499 required both economy of scale after having made a slew of them, and slashing the usual margins to ribbons. The componentry inside ain't cheap, and neither is the casework.

 

..."and the lack of a remote..." was a conscious decision. We use good quality selector switches and volume pots, and the thought was that changing a record would require approaching the equipment, anyway--so why not make it hands-on? Disagreeing with a designer's decision is one thing, but making snarky comments about groups that may help high-end audio

survive is not at all helpful to growing the flock. Audiophiles are already thought to be be antisocial misanthropes; no need to further enable that stereotype.

 

Comparisons to other products are noted; in my experience, Sprout out-performs them, is far more attractive, and is more pleasant to use. If you need a remote, it's probably not for you. If you want something that's plasticky and looks like a router, you have plenty of choices.

 

We have examined several speakers, and plan on testing several others. We hope to be able to announce a pairing (or two or three) by RMAF. ...Well, CES, anyway. We will be showing Sprout with headphones in the lobby at RMAF.

[trappy]

Sorry, Bill. I don't like the oak, but you're right: different strokes.

[Lighthouse]

" the phono input - to attract the 25 and up crowd who are into vinyl"

 

And the luck of remote, is suppose to attract hipsters that cannot figure out what a remote is

 

 

Millenials do not listen to Vinyl. It's a myth.

 

They DO buy vinyl records, but most of them are bought as collective items, not for listening. Most of young people do not have money to buy and time to configure vinyl setup. The fact that the sales of turntables has been flat proves this suspicion.......

[bluesman]

If you need a remote, it's probably not for you.

The simple truth is that nobody needs a remote. It does ease track and source switching, but remote controls may have started the annual growth in BMI. That's why those of us who grew up with vinyl look so much better than the young digital dudes............

 

[sbgk]

will there be an upgrade path ? perhaps a linear ps called parsnip or a power amp called turkey ?

 

in my experience youngsters don't like sprouts, their taste buds not being mature enough.

[Audio_ELF]

Comparisons to other products are noted; in my experience, Sprout out-performs them, is far more attractive, and is more pleasant to use. If you need a remote, it's probably not for you. If you want something that's plasticky and looks like a router, you have plenty of choices.

Bill ... difficult question here but ...

 

Was that a decision that PS Audio made (that users don't need a remote); or was it the result of market research? Considering you said "making snarky comments about groups that may help high-end audio survive is not at all helpful to growing the flock" it could equally be said "telling the end user what they need, probably isn't going to help growing the flock". Perhaps the lack of remote (for at least volume) is why the Sprout isn't flying off the shelf?

 

Anyway the question was: is no remote control down to market research or simply a dogmatic designer who designs for themselves not for the market?

 

I don't know if it's cause or effect (perhaps a little of both) but the death of the mainstream "HiFi" has come (to my observation in the UK) at the same time as death of HiFi on the high street. I know lots of people who are music lovers, but are not interested in HiFi, however they have a modicum of spare income and will spend it on things they feel offer a worthwhile step up in cost. For example they might originally have headed to a department store to buy a £500 mini-system (or Bose Clock Radio) but could be persuaded to spend £750 on something like the Sprout with a set of speakers - though I do think though they would be wanting a remote control (IMO).

 

Eloise

[Audio_ELF]

The simple truth is that nobody needs a remote.

No (user) needs a remote control. But perhaps the simple truth is that people THINK they need a remote control and therefore without including a remote control it will not matter what the sound quality, a large proportion of the potential market will never consider the Sprout.

 

Its called being pragmatic in your design decisions.

[mourip]

Hi, gents--

Responding to several comments, so pardon me if I bounce around.

 

..."that 'oak' top..." It's walnut, real wood. Different strokes for different folks; most like it.

 

..."dropping it to $249..." is not doable. Getting it to $499 required both economy of scale after having made a slew of them, and slashing the usual margins to ribbons. The componentry inside ain't cheap, and neither is the casework.

 

..."and the lack of a remote..." was a conscious decision. We use good quality selector switches and volume pots, and the thought was that changing a record would require approaching the equipment, anyway--so why not make it hands-on? Disagreeing with a designer's decision is one thing, but making snarky comments about groups that may help high-end audio

survive is not at all helpful to growing the flock. Audiophiles are already thought to be be antisocial misanthropes; no need to further enable that stereotype.

 

Comparisons to other products are noted; in my experience, Sprout out-performs them, is far more attractive, and is more pleasant to use. If you need a remote, it's probably not for you. If you want something that's plasticky and looks like a router, you have plenty of choices.

 

We have examined several speakers, and plan on testing several others. We hope to be able to announce a pairing (or two or three) by RMAF. ...Well, CES, anyway. We will be showing Sprout with headphones in the lobby at RMAF.

 

Some good points.

 

BTW. Can you tell us a bit about yourself? Do you work for PSAudio?

[mourip]

The simple truth is that nobody needs a remote. It does ease track and source switching, but remote controls may have started the annual growth in BMI. That's why those of us who grew up with vinyl look so much better than the young digital dudes............

 

 

Wow! Actually nobody actually needs audio equipment :-)

 

Personally I grew up with vinyl, am not over weight, and use a remote for my all digital system. I do not consider my audio system as part of my weight management system. I prefer walking outdoors.

 

As a frequent track switcher and album switcher I find that there is no consistent volume recording level so I am always adjusting it. Not having to constantly tweak the volume manually greatly increases my ability to concentrate on the music. Except for my headphone system where I am two feet from the amp I personally would always use at least remote volume control.

[MikeJazz]

I'm surprised PS Audio haven't either produced matching speakers or linked up with someone to sell the package through non-audiophile specialists...

 

They should really think in creating some Sprout active speakers moving the electronics there...there is an appeal for simple form hi-fi.

[MikeJazz]

No (user) needs a remote control. But perhaps the simple truth is that people THINK they need a remote control and therefore without including a remote control it will not matter what the sound quality, a large proportion of the potential market will never consider the Sprout.

 

Its called being pragmatic in your design decisions.

 

I know I need one! Missing a remote on a product oriented by convenience (the whole integrated approach) is strange.

[MikeJazz]

Millenials do not listen to Vinyl. It's a myth.

 

They DO buy vinyl records, but most of them are bought as collective items, not for listening. Most of young people do not have money to buy and time to configure vinyl setup. The fact that the sales of turntables has been flat proves this suspicion.......

 

There is nothing flat about vinyl sales...quite the contrary. what is sometimes a myth is the size of the market. Still very small. But this is a product that could be the right partner to a Rega or Projet turntable.

[Paul R]

Bill ... difficult question here but ...

 

Was that a decision that PS Audio made (that users don't need a remote); or was it the result of market research? Considering you said "making snarky comments about groups that may help high-end audio survive is not at all helpful to growing the flock" it could equally be said "telling the end user what they need, probably isn't going to help growing the flock". Perhaps the lack of remote (for at least volume) is why the Sprout isn't flying off the shelf?

 

I think you hit the nail on the head there. The sprout is targeted towards what would have been "counter culture" in my time. It is a status symbol to those kinds of folks. Just wait until other things become more important in their life, like when they have kids of their own. Their ideas of what is cool and what is not will change - radically I would bet.

 

Like a lot of people today, I want the electronics to be unobtrusive if possible, not showy status symbol items. A teeny little remote control is pretty much all I *do* want to see of the electronics that reproduce music for me. Of course, video is an exception, needing a nice big video screen, but even then, we would like it rather unobtrusive. We are working on the design of a fabric print that will cover it up when we are not using it.

 

Anyway the question was: is no remote control down to market research or simply a dogmatic designer who designs for themselves not for the market?

 

I don't know if it's cause or effect (perhaps a little of both) but the death of the mainstream "HiFi" has come (to my observation in the UK) at the same time as death of HiFi on the high street. I know lots of people who are music lovers, but are not interested in HiFi, however they have a modicum of spare income and will spend it on things they feel offer a worthwhile step up in cost. For example they might originally have headed to a department store to buy a £500 mini-system (or Bose Clock Radio) but could be persuaded to spend £750 on something like the Sprout with a set of speakers - though I do think though they would be wanting a remote control (IMO).

 

Eloise

 

Possibly, but the thing doesn't stream or do any of the things people are looking for today... I suspect the 500 pound system would meet their needs more closely, and be unobtrusive on a shelf or in a cabinet.

 

 

-Paul

[Paul R]

Hi, gents--

 

..."dropping it to $249..." is not doable. Getting it to $499 required both economy of scale after having made a slew of them, and slashing the usual margins to ribbons. The componentry inside ain't cheap, and neither is the casework.

 

I looked this up and sent a few pricing requests offshore, and I doubt that getting the retail price to $249 is that much of a challenge. Given the economy of scale possible to offshore manufacturing, $249 might even be an easy target.

 

How many of the components are sourced soley from US sources? Is it assembled here in the US or in an offshore plant? If not offshore, why not?

 

Yes, I understand the economy of scales, and unlike some, I have no problem at all with a company making a decent profit off their hard work. But give that something assembled offshore can and most often does have equal - or even better quality - than "hand assembled" products here in the U.S., I am not convinced that the pricing is as low as it can go and still put food on the table.

 

If you are making it to appeal to hipsters or broke audio snobs, then it is, of course, a different story.

 

-Paul

[Bill Leebens]

I looked this up and sent a few pricing requests offshore, and I doubt that getting the retail price to $249 is that much of a challenge. Given the economy of scale possible to offshore manufacturing, $249 might even be an easy target.

 

-Paul

 

Easy? Perhaps if one is working in Apple-ish quantities, with captive OEM houses and near-slave labor. For most companies, no way, no how. Even under the best of circumstances, it would be difficult to produce the quality of casework and componentry of Sprout for at a price that would enable it to be sold at $249. Sorry, I don't see that happening.

 

I would challenge you to examine audio products in the $250-$500 range, and then look at those in the $800-$1000 range. Sprout appears and feels like a product from the higher price range, in terms of heft, material quality, and feel of switchgear. Certainly the mix of features and the performance of those features indicates that the product came from a company with a lot of experience in producing high-value products (modest pat on back for PS). And if you bring sound-quality into the mix...fuhgeddaboutit. Sprout blows the others away.

 

Remote, or lack of it? It was a conscious choice, based also upon an intimate familiarity with the compromises and constraints imposed by hitting a price-point. Remotes require receivers, one of several particular types of pots, and take up a fair amount of real estate. And what about sound? Remote-controlled pots that sound decent aren't cheap, or small. --And, finally, that remote itself: do you really want to design and build a unique unit made of quality materials and then throw in a flimsy generic plastic remote control unit? We didn't. Had we wanted to include a proper remote--made of materials like those used in Sprout's casework--it would have added at least $100 to the MSRP...and again, we didn't WANT a remote.

 

Remember that manufacturing is the embodiment of TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch): everything costs, almost everything occupies space. Unless you're building something with no cost-constraints whatsoever, there will be trade-offs...and I would argue that the basis of good engineering is maximization of resources, not profligate spending.

 

Sorry for not identifying myself--I did in another thread elsewhere in the forums, and thanks for asking. I'm Director of Marketing at PS Audio, working at the Boulder facility. I've been in and out of audio for over 40 years, and have worked in sales/marketing/business development for many companies, including VAC, Vitus Audio, Engstrom & Engstrom, Antipodes Audio, and many others. I managed the 2012 NY Audio Show at the Waldorf-Astoria; I was Director of Maarketing at Audiogon back in the good ol' days; I've done crowdfunding campaigns with Light Harmonic (back at the beginning), Peachtree Audio and PS. I've also worked in automobile racing as a tech-rep for companies that built internal parts for race engines, managed a medical-imaging facility, and a number of other jobs that just don't fit in any sane resume'. Fields of study in college were mechanical engineering and journalism.

 

Thanks for your interest and your civility. --Well, MOST of you, anyway. ;->

 

Cheers, Bill

[Bill Leebens]

Regarding real estate: here you can see how much stuff is inside Sprout....[ATTACH=CONFIG]21063[/ATTACH]