HQ Player

[AudioDoctor]

9 minutes ago, Luca72c said:

 

And how do you think a bunch of services or processes occupying about 2% processing power at worst could influence how your system is sounding? 

What hqplayer does is calculations, and they are the same on linux, windows or mac. What server PC does is performing those calculation (music flow is output to the NAA in a continuos stream) or fail (music flow is output to the NAA with dropouts). Output is the result of those calculations, we're talking about numbers that are the same on any OS. The NAA does the rest, still outputting a digital stream (i.e. numbers, again) that the dac converts to an analog stream. So no analog stream is output by the hqplayer server, then how could there be a difference between two different PCs with different OSes if they both output a continous stream of the same numbers? 

I remember Jussi already confirmed this in previous posts, but if i'm wrong i ask him to clarify if a sound difference has to be expected running hqplayer on different server OSes (i say SOUND difference, not performance). 

P.S.: Maybe a very very small difference can be conceivable only if we put on the table unknown factors that current tech knowledge doesn't recognize yet, but in that case of course personal taste, again, is the key to judge. Personally i find a very small difference (if any) between windows and linux, as i said, but i prefer windows sound, so no general rule here. I spent hours doing A/B tests between linux and windows, even with the help of some friends, and all confirmed the difference is very small and it's the one i reported in previous posts, just the same in 2 different systems. 

Again, personal taste and personal cases (maybe nic or usb drivers or cpu management could be involved, so the difference can vary with different hardware and different setups). The smarter thing to do for anyone that believes in this possibility is obviously to try himself on his own system and judge, avoiding any arguable general rule that, for a matter of facts, can't really be general or reliable. 

 

You're right, they all sound the same. Thats why there are

 

Euphony
Audio Linux
Taiko Extreme with it's highly custom Windows OS
some people using direct mode on Mac OS
and I am sure I am forgetting some

[Luca72c]

2 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I didn't have any problems running the software in windows. I just don't like using windows and found linux not only much simpler to administer remotely [...]

 

Ok, so you had some "nuisances" with windows to be administered remotely. Probably you were trying to do in windows things it's not designed to do... We're still at the same point, as i find windows MUCH simpler than linux to administer - and i guess 90% of PC users do agree with my opinion... Many times, trying to administer linux remotely has simply been a pain, in my experiences.

Personal experiences, different cases

[Luca72c]

24 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

You're right, they all sound the same. Thats why there are

 

Euphony
Audio Linux
Taiko Extreme with it's highly custom Windows OS
some people using direct mode on Mac OS
and I am sure I am forgetting some

 

Oh, sure, but many of those are primarily focused on performance/use optimizations, not sound. And please remember we are talking about hqplayer on server side (i use a linux NAA in my system, too), not about a player PC that outputs a USB (not isolated) stream.

About sound, there are premium interconnects that cost 15.000 USD, too; speaker cables costing even more. There are devices to improve sound casting a quantum field in the room. Incredible sounding fuses that cost hundreds. Exceptional power supplies costing more than a high level dac. And so on...

But are we talking about facts, here?

[MemoryPlayer]

4 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I think its because when I use Linux I don't need to turn off a bunch of services, they're not there to start. I have the absolute most basic install that will still allow HQPlayer and Roon to run, with SSH enabled for administration, and that's about it.

ALSA sounds much better than ASIO!

[MemoryPlayer]

3 hours ago, Luca72c said:

 

... i guess Mac is doing some low level work, in both cases.

Not with Windows, because I boot direct to Windows.

Parallels is a Mac app that create a virtual machine for run Linux or even Windows!

[Luca72c]

39 minutes ago, MemoryPlayer said:

Not with Windows, because I boot direct to Windows.

Parallels is a Mac app that create a virtual machine for run Linux or even Windows!

 

?

Doesn't "virtual" mean that it runs through another low-level OS? The host system assign resources to the virtual OS, but it's never like it was running directly alone with full resources and direct hardware management...

[Luca72c]

1 hour ago, MemoryPlayer said:

ALSA sounds much better than ASIO!

 

That's your opinion.

I'm listening now to some songs, doing A/B between HQPlayer desktop in windows 10 and HQPEmbedded in linux. In my PC i have one SSD for windows and one for linux, so boot time is very fast - less then 10 seconds each. This means i can do A/B tests with convenient short interval between the two.

I can confirm there is a very small sound difference: linux sounding slightly more "smooth" and "candied" and a bit less punchy; windows sounding slightly fuller (expecially in mid-lows), live and realistic, a bit more dynamic. I'd say maybe linux better for jazz, vocals and calm genres, windows better for pop, rock/progressive rock and electronics. I prefer music to sound real and live more than smooth, so i still prefer windows sound - but i could live with both, as the difference is very little, as i said!

About new filters, i like ext3, a bit more information than ext2 it seems, expecially in highs; a bit less "aggressive" too. In my win10 5.1 ghz 10850K PC i can play all songs up to 32-192 with ext3 and ASDM7EC but i don't have higher res files to test.

I can play sync-mx on redbook with a short dropout every 30 seconds, more or less. using ASDM7EC; no dropouts on redbook files using ASDM5EC. Sounds smooth with wide soundstage, maybe a bit "polite" compared to ext2.

I can't test in linux because there ain't new filters in my version of Embedded.

[AudioDoctor]

4 hours ago, Luca72c said:

 

Oh, sure, but many of those are primarily focused on performance/use optimizations, not sound. And please remember we are talking about hqplayer on server side (i use a linux NAA in my system, too), not about a player PC that outputs a USB (not isolated) stream.

About sound, there are premium interconnects that cost 15.000 USD, too; speaker cables costing even more. There are devices to improve sound casting a quantum field in the room. Incredible sounding fuses that cost hundreds. Exceptional power supplies costing more than a high level dac. And so on...

But are we talking about facts, here?

 

WHAT?????

[The Computer Audiophile]

Ok, back on topic folks. 

[MemoryPlayer]

6 hours ago, Luca72c said:

 

?

Doesn't "virtual" mean that it runs through another low-level OS? The host system assign resources to the virtual OS, but it's never like it was running directly alone with full resources and direct hardware management...

Yes, but I boot direct to windows, not direct to linux with bootcamp and full resources and direct hardware management....

[MemoryPlayer]

6 hours ago, Luca72c said:

 

That's your opinion.

 

That's my ears, the only source I trust!

BTW, Jussi think the same about Win X Linux...

[Luca72c]

29 minutes ago, MemoryPlayer said:

Yes, but I boot direct to windows, not direct to linux with bootcamp and full resources and direct hardware management....

Then it's not a "virtual machine", but a direct installation. Windows need a number of partitions on its own to run properly, if they're not available ("virtual") then it's not the same. I used various virtualization softwares in the past, they're not really like a direct installation

[Luca72c]

39 minutes ago, MemoryPlayer said:

That's my ears, the only source I trust!

BTW, Jussi think the same about Win X Linux...

 

And i talk about my ears, too, so again PERSONAL experience/taste. And Jussi opinion is just another personal opinion/taste, with all the respect he deserves as a developer (but i remember him always talking about performance/user control, not sound, being better in linux). In direct USB connection even drivers are involved, so different cases with different dacs too.

Anyway, using HQPlayer with a NAA, doesn't involve - at server side - using alsa or asio, server PC only outputs via ethernet, so we're talking about nothing. Jussi himslef clearly wrote no sound difference has to be expected, in that case, if NAA is the same.

N.B.: Didn't you notice moderator asking us to move on? Please let's do that, we're not coming to a final word, when personal taste/experience is involved...

 

[Miska]

On 5/16/2021 at 4:26 PM, CJH said:

Many of us are already pushing our PCs to the limit . Any chance we could get a poly-sinc-ext3-2s?

 

It is already two-stage like ext2, but just like ext2 it has twice higher intermediate rate compared to regular -2s filters.

 

[Miska]

There's now updated ARM64 build for macOS with version 4.11.1. Only few small cleanups. I have verified that this works fine with DSF files and RedBook to DSD256 using ext2 + ASDM7EC.

 

Refresh the product page if you are not seeing the updated download link.

 

[Jean Paul D]

39 minutes ago, Miska said:

There's now updated ARM64 build for macOS with version 4.11.1. Only few small cleanups. 

 

TO GREAT POSITIVE effects it seems

[Zauurx]

No possibility at the moment to set the channels below 0.5db (like in Roon, e.g. -1.3db... but it seems more transparent under HQP)?

And to confirm, the distance allows to adjust the phase? (delay for the closest speaker)

[Account Closed]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

There's now updated ARM64 build for macOS with version 4.11.1. Only few small cleanups. I have verified that this works fine with DSF files and RedBook to DSD256 using ext2 + ASDM7EC.

 

Refresh the product page if you are not seeing the updated download link.

 

Thanks Jussi, Ext2 is indeed working fine now.

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Zauurx said:

No possibility at the moment to set the channels below 0.5db (like in Roon, e.g. -1.3db... but it seems more transparent under HQP)?

 

You can adjust volume in 0.1 dB steps and in matrix you can use 0.01 dB for example.

 

1 hour ago, Zauurx said:

And to confirm, the distance allows to adjust the phase? (delay for the closest speaker)

 

Yes, delays are calculated based on speed of sound for the given distance at 21C temperature.

 

[Zauurx]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

You can adjust volume in 0.1 dB steps and in matrix you can use 0.01 dB for example.

 

 

Yes, delays are calculated based on speed of sound for the given distance at 21C temperature.

 

Thanks Miska.
All you had to do was type "-1,2" instead to click.
Otherwise, I'm the only one on win10 who stayed on 4.103 because of a 4.11 with a surprisingly high thread count?
4.103.. does not move (118.. or less)... 4.11, more than 200.

Win10 : 40 process, < 550 threads < 30 000 handles (with 4.11... 650 theads at first, then 800, then...).

[MemoryPlayer]

14 hours ago, Luca72c said:

 

...Didn't you notice moderator asking us to move on? Please let's do that, we're not coming to a final word, when personal taste/experience is involved...

 

OK! 👍 Nice idea, but ALSA sounds better than ASIO! 😆😆😆

[SwissBear]

Hi,

Recent developments have driven me to reconsider the usage of Roon and try to use HQPlayer on its own. I am busy looking at HQPlayer Library which I never investigated before.
My music files are sitting on a NAS on my network. 
I noticed that some of my albums have been perfectly identified by the scan while some others, sitting in neighbouring directories, have not. I repeated the operation 2 or 3 times without success.
Are there any specific recommendations I should be aware of setting up this part of the application ? Is there any way to debug the behaviour of this feature ?
Thanks 

[lotusaurus]

49 minutes ago, SwissBear said:

My music files are sitting on a NAS on my network. 
I noticed that some of my albums have been perfectly identified by the scan while some others, sitting in neighbouring directories, have not. I repeated the operation 2 or 3 times without success.
Are there any specific recommendations I should be aware of setting up this part of the application ? Is there any way to debug the behaviour of this feature ?
Thanks 

I'm no expert on HQP, but I had the same thing happening to me once. One particular album was not being imported. It turns out that one of the tracks was corrupted. Once I found my backup and replaced the track, I was able to import.

 

My guess is that HQP is very album focused. So if one of the tracks in the album folder can't be imported, then the entire album is not imported. I also have a vague recollection that somewhere it was mentioned that all the tracks in an album have to be the same format - I suppose like all .flac or all .dsf.

[SwissBear]

7 minutes ago, lotusaurus said:

I'm no expert on HQP, but I had the same thing happening to me once. One particular album was not being imported. It turns out that one of the tracks was corrupted. Once I found my backup and replaced the track, I was able to import.

 

My guess is that HQP is very album focused. So if one of the tracks in the album folder can't be imported, then the entire album is not imported. I also have a vague recollection that somewhere it was mentioned that all the tracks in an album have to be the same format - I suppose like all .flac or all .dsf.

 

Thank you for your reply. I will double check, but I have no problem playing those albums from Roon or Audirvana.

Albums were purchased from Qobuz and downloaded in AIFF format, like other albums I am purchasing there.

Any other idea ?

[Jean Paul D]

1 hour ago, SwissBear said:

 

Thank you for your reply. I will double check, but I have no problem playing those albums from Roon or Audirvana.

Albums were purchased from Qobuz and downloaded in AIFF format, like other albums I am purchasing there.

Any other idea ?

I'm afraid it might have to do with this annoyance (quoted from Manual) : "Note! Each directory is assumed to contain only one type of supported playback files, the first recognized type will be used and other types of files within the directory will be ignored."