HQ Player

[Miska]

On 5/14/2021 at 4:28 PM, GoldenOne said:

 I don't suppose there's a way to get roon bridge running alongside on the NAA image?

 

Absolutely not! I cannot, and don't want to distribute such Roon software (or anything else) on my image which is purely HQPlayer specific.

 

If you want both, you need to build your own based on some Linux distribution.

 

[Miska]

21 minutes ago, Yviena said:

Hmm maybe you should open a bug issue, and forward the info to windows so they can get It fixed as it seems like a bug that windows is not honoring affinity.

 

Totally futile experiment to try to communicate with something like Microsoft unless you are a multi-billion dollar corporation. And I think this behavior is by design. Maybe it makes system behave the way they want under certain circumstances. Afterall HQPlayer is very specific kind of workload.

 

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, Yviena said:

Hmm maybe you should open a bug issue, and forward the info to windows so they can get It fixed as it seems like a bug that windows is not honoring affinity.

 

This is another reason that Linux is, imo, The best OS to run HQPlayer on.

 

 

[Miska]

Note that Roon sometimes cuts short Tidal streams before end of track. This happens also with 4.10.3 and earlier HQPlayer versions (and without HQPlayer). So if you are observing tracks being cut short, please consider this aspect first.

 

[Account Closed]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Log file snippets are needed for these kind of cases, otherwise it will remain mystery what happens.

 

 

Same thing for this...

 

Please use email for logs to avoid adding lot of noise to this thread.

 

Sorry but I can't send logs as I have reverted to 4.10.3 but not for these things but because I could no longer use ASDM7EC/DSD256/poly sinc ext2 without dropouts when using 4.11 on my M1 Mini. I really like ext2 so it was important enough for me to go back to 4.10.3 where it works perfectly.

[Luca72c]

3 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

This is another reason that Linux is, imo, The best OS to run HQPlayer on.

 

That is a simplistic conclusion, imho: you always have to consider different use cases. On a pair of PCs i own, linux HQPOS doesn't even work, let alone being better than windows... Other linux distributions i tried do work, but not better than windows or even worse, as many problems often appear, inexplicably, about some hardware not being properly driven or functionalities not running as smooth as expected. Problems that are not easily fixed, as sometimes even my linux-expert friends don't know how to resolve them.

Conversely, windows HQP works very well on those machines, running without hassles and without the need of any intervention. Core affinity is exactly as expected and performance is top notch, not a single bit less than on linux and with better general stability and usability. Everything flows smoothly and user experience is carefree (personally i never had a single problem in 3 years of HQPlayer use on windows, not even a performance issue or a slightest need to fix anything). But they're based on Intel cpus.

So, if you're using an AMD cpu probably the best OS to run HQPlayer is linux; but if you're using an Intel cpu, you have to think twice about that and run comparative tests before choosing. Today, there are so many different hardware components you can use to build a PC that nearly any system is a particular case... That's what i experienced.

[AudioDoctor]

16 minutes ago, Luca72c said:

 

That is a simplistic conclusion

 

No, it's not. People make it complicated and/or try to make the software do things it's not designed to do because they don't understand what it is and what it does.

 

I am an absolute noob at this, and if I can figure it out then anyone can. I run Ubuntu on my music server, with Roon and HQPlayer just fine with zero problems.

[Luca72c]

52 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

No, it's not. People make it complicated and/or try to make the software do things it's not designed to do because they don't understand what it is and what it does.

 

I am an absolute noob at this, and if I can figure it out then anyone can. I run Ubuntu on my music server, with Roon and HQPlayer just fine with zero problems.

 

In facts, that's YOUR experience. That's not THE experience. 

I'm not talking about linux being over complicated to afford, i can figure it out too. And i have many linux-expert friends that can help. But:

1. On some systems, many linux incarnations doesn't run properly or flawlessly (expecially HQPOS), many problems arise - even when managed by people much more expert than you and me. If you didn't face problems, it doesn't mean they cannot occur to others. If an OS is not designed to work flawlessly on ANY PC, then yes, i want it to do what it's not designed to do and i don't understand why it's not designed to do that... I don't care about any philosophy behind an OS, i simply want it to do what I need when i need it. 

2. On linux, you have to face so many incompatibilities in regard of the rest of the world. Every time you have to do anything, even if you perfectly know what to do, you have to do that in a different and complicated way. You don't have the same software tools most of other people has, you don't have the same world wide support and possibilities, not even the same wide number of choices. That's limiting enough, for many of us.

3. Even when working properly, on many systems linux hqp runs not any better than windows hqp, both in sound and in performance, but user experience is way less smooth and fast. So why should someone voluntarily make his life more painful and complicated for nothing? 

Maybe, in your case, you simply don't care about all these points (and others), i'm glad you have zero problems, but how can you be so sure that nobody has any or that all that have any are simply lazy or ignorant? That's YOUR experience, as i said. Each case is a different thing... 

[AudioDoctor]

14 minutes ago, Luca72c said:

 

In facts, that's YOUR experience. That's not THE experience. 

I'm not talking about linux being over complicated to afford, i can figure it out too. And i have many linux-expert friends that can help. But:

1. On some systems, many linux incarnations doesn't run properly or flawlessly (expecially HQPOS), many problems arise - even when managed by people much more expert than you and me. If you didn't face problems, it doesn't mean they cannot occur to others. If an OS is not designed to work flawlessly on ANY PC, then yes, i want it to do what it's not designed to do and i don't understand why it's not designed to do that... I don't care about any philosophy behind an OS, i simply want it to do what I need when i need it. 

2. On linux, you have to face so many incompatibilities in regard of the rest of the world. Every time you have to do anything, even if you perfectly know what to do, you have to do that in a different and complicated way. You don't have the same software tools most of other people has, you don't have the same world wide support and possibilities, not even the same wide number of choices. That's limiting enough, for many of us.

3. Even when working properly, on many systems linux hqp runs not any better than windows hqp, both in sound and in performance, but user experience is way less smooth and fast. So why should someone voluntarily make his life more painful and complicated for nothing? 

Maybe, in your case, you simply don't care about all these points (and others), i'm glad you have zero problems, but how can you be so sure that nobody has any or that all that have any are simply lazy or ignorant? That's YOUR experience, as i said. Each case is a different thing... 

 

Ok, let me rephrase what I said earlier. You cause all of your own problems.

[zoltan]

I do apologize if this has been asked before, couldn't find it in 'search'

1. Can I install HQPlayer 4 trial version and still keep HQPlayer 3.xx parallel? I would like to try version 4 before I commit to an upgrade. If the answer is 'yes', how do I do it? Install to a separate location? 
2. I use HQPlayer under Roon, so functionality and interface improvements are not important to me. Also, from my SOtM SMS-200 ultra (NAA), the signal goes through a Mutec MC-3 USB which converts everything to 192kHz so going overboard with higher resolution DSD or PCM may not be much improvement in my system. So my second question is, if I use, let's say the same up-sampling settings in version 4 as in version 3, would there be any improvement in sound quality?   

[bibo01]

10 minutes ago, zoltan said:

I do apologize if this has been asked before, couldn't find it in 'search'

1. Can I install HQPlayer 4 trial version and still keep HQPlayer 3.xx parallel? I would like to try version 4 before I commit to an upgrade. If the answer is 'yes', how do I do it? Install to a separate location? 
2. I use HQPlayer under Roon, so functionality and interface improvements are not important to me. Also, from my SOtM SMS-200 ultra (NAA), the signal goes through a Mutec MC-3 USB which converts everything to 192kHz so going overboard with higher resolution DSD or PCM may not be much improvement in my system. So my second question is, if I use, let's say the same up-sampling settings in version 4 as in version 3, would there be any improvement in sound quality?   

1) Yes. v4 installs in a different directory by default.

2) Most probably not, but v4 has some interesting new filter/modulator.

[zoltan]

5 minutes ago, bibo01 said:

1) Yes. v4 installs in a different directory by default.

2) Most probably not, but v4 has some interesting new filter/modulator.

Thanks for your response. Regarding the new filters/modulators, which one(s) would you recommend to try that perhaps would give an edge over the ones found in v.3. (I usually use the -xtr and NS9 setting)

[bibo01]

15 minutes ago, zoltan said:

Thanks for your response. Regarding the new filters/modulators, which one(s) would you recommend to try that perhaps would give an edge over the ones found in v.3. (I usually use the -xtr and NS9 setting)

I would try ext2 and ext3...perhaps LNS15

[Luca72c]

7 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Ok, let me rephrase what I said earlier. You cause all of your own problems.

 

Ok, let me synthesize what i said earlier: how can you be so sure about that? 

I could say exactly the same thing about your problems in windows, if you use an Intel cpu... Your problems come from you wanting to use windows in a different way from what it's designed to do. And that's exacly the same problem you say i have with linux. 

So these are our PERSONAL cases... 

[CJH]

Many of us are already pushing our PCs to the limit . Any chance we could get a poly-sinc-ext3-2s?

CJH

[giordy60]

hi Jussi
it would be interesting if in the HQPlayer user manual there were graphs for each filter you made .....

......and that you will make! 
like these you posted. 👌

 

 

[Luca72c]

24 minutes ago, giordy60 said:

hi Jussi
it would be interesting if in the HQPlayer user manual there were graphs for each filter you made .....

......and that you will make! 
like these you posted. 👌

 

 

 

+1 👍

Or in Signalyst site, if you prefer... 

[giordy60]

4 minutes ago, Luca72c said:

 

+1 👍

Or in Signalyst site, if you prefer... 

it would be perfect 😎

[Foggie]

Curious if anyone might have some clues on why I can't get V4.x to run, but my licensed V3.x works fine. 

 

Problem: When I launch HQP V4.x (4.1.3 as well as prev V4 version), it hangs on splash screen and never gets past this so I kill the process.  I have two installs, my lic of V3.x and have installed / tried a couple V4.x to trial.  V4 used to work, but then one day this problem started.  I can't remember when / or any specific change to the wkst to correlate when then started (e.g. OS updates etc..) since I use V3, but wanting to get onto V4 but not sure about what OS type to go with yet.

 

Wkst/OS details: It's a standalone high end wkst running server 2019 and only performs HQP duties.  

 

Network / misc details:  Wkst is in util room connected to switch.  I run a dedicated Linux roon core on another computer in util room.  I use a opticalRendu as an endpoint in listening room

 

I have uninstalled V4, rebooted, reinstalled and I believe cleaned out V4 reg areas after uninstall / reboots during troubleshooting > I think, but don't quote me on that

 

[Jean Paul D]

1 hour ago, giordy60 said:

hi Jussi
it would be interesting if in the HQPlayer user manual there were graphs for each filter you made .....

......and that you will make! 
like these you posted. 👌

 

 

But then, would they tell the whole story ? I can use ext3 only with RB, for it's very long and ressource intensive. The way I link what I perceive (tigntier, airier sound) with what we see and know is that transients info is pushed back in the audible band reconstructing better transients. But it might make @Miskalaugh : we (I) would need some education in order to decipher correctly

[AudioDoctor]

9 hours ago, Luca72c said:

 

Ok, let me synthesize what i said earlier: how can you be so sure about that? 

I could say exactly the same thing about your problems in windows, if you use an Intel cpu... Your problems come from you wanting to use windows in a different way from what it's designed to do. And that's exacly the same problem you say i have with linux. 

So these are our PERSONAL cases... 

 

I didn't have any problems running the software in windows. I just don't like using windows and found linux not only much simpler to administer remotely, but also to sound better.

[MemoryPlayer]

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I didn't have any problems running the software in windows. I just don't like using windows and found linux not only much simpler to administer remotely, but also to sound better.

Even using Linux Studio below Parallels on my Mac, HQPlayer always sounds much better than using Windows direct with Bootcamp! Period.

[AudioDoctor]

8 minutes ago, MemoryPlayer said:

Even using Linux Studio below Parallels on my Mac, HQPlayer always sounds much better than using Windows direct with Bootcamp! Period.

 

I think its because when I use Linux I don't need to turn off a bunch of services, they're not there to start. I have the absolute most basic install that will still allow HQPlayer and Roon to run, with SSH enabled for administration, and that's about it.

[Luca72c]

1 hour ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I think its because when I use Linux I don't need to turn off a bunch of services, they're not there to start. I have the absolute most basic install that will still allow HQPlayer and Roon to run, with SSH enabled for administration, and that's about it.

 

And how do you think a bunch of services or processes occupying about 2% processing power at worst could influence how your system is sounding? 

What hqplayer does is calculations, and they are the same on linux, windows or mac. What server PC does is performing those calculation (music flow is output to the NAA in a continuos stream) or fail (music flow is output to the NAA with dropouts). Output is the result of those calculations, we're talking about numbers that are the same on any OS. The NAA does the rest, still outputting a digital stream (i.e. numbers, again) that the dac converts to an analog stream. So no analog stream is output by the hqplayer server and ethernet isolation makes electrical noise ineffective, then how could there be a difference between two different PCs with different OSes if they both output a continous stream of the same numbers? 

I remember Jussi already confirmed this in previous posts, but if i'm wrong i ask him to clarify if a sound difference has to be expected running hqplayer on different server OSes (i say SOUND difference, not performance). 

P.S.: Maybe a very very small difference can be conceivable only if we put on the table unknown factors that current tech knowledge doesn't recognize yet, but in that case of course personal taste, again, is the key to judge. Personally i find a very small difference (if any) between windows and linux, as i said, but i prefer windows sound, so no general rule here. I spent hours doing A/B tests between linux and windows, even with the help of some friends, and all confirmed the difference is very small and it's the one i reported in previous posts, just the same in 2 different systems. 

Again, personal taste and personal cases (maybe nic or usb drivers or cpu management could be involved, so the difference can vary with different hardware and different setups). The smarter thing to do for anyone that believes in this possibility is obviously to try himself on his own system and judge, avoiding any arguable general rule that, for a matter of facts, can't really be general or reliable. 

[Luca72c]

1 hour ago, MemoryPlayer said:

Even using Linux Studio below Parallels on my Mac, HQPlayer always sounds much better than using Windows direct with Bootcamp! Period.

 

To be honest, i don't think these 2 cases can be reliably taken as evidence of what we're talking about... I never tried Parallels or Bootcamp and i don't know how they work deeply, but i guess Mac is doing some low level work, in both cases.