Miska Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 "DAC Bits" only affects PCM output. It doesn't have any function or meaning for SDM outputs. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
ted_b Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Thanks Jussi, that is what I thought. Not sure why folks who convert to DSD are worried about dac bits, but thought maybe I was missing something. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
GoldenOne Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 @Miska I have a nuc coming tomorrow which I'll be setting up as a roon core and also hqplayer naa (actual hqplayer processing will be done on my main pc). In your opinion is it better to have naa running on Windows with ASIO or Linux with ALSA? Im not going to be running anything else on it and both roon and hqplayer naa can of course be run on either so I wanted to get your two cents on if there was a reason to pick one or the other. As far as I'm aware ALSA and asio should be functionally identical right? Is there an advantage to one or the other, or to NAA's Linux vs Windows version? Thanks! https://youtube.com/goldensound Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara Link to comment
Miska Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 15 hours ago, GoldenOne said: In your opinion is it better to have naa running on Windows with ASIO or Linux with ALSA? Certainly Linux with the NAA OS or HQPlayer OS image. 15 hours ago, GoldenOne said: As far as I'm aware ALSA and asio should be functionally identical right? Functionally somewhat similar, but technically very different already because of different OS. 15 hours ago, GoldenOne said: Is there an advantage to one or the other, or to NAA's Linux vs Windows version? Linux is primary platform for NAA. Windows and macOS version exists just because it is possible, for some obscure corner cases where it is not possible to run OS purpose built for NAA. GoldenOne 1 Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
GoldenOne Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 40 minutes ago, Miska said: Certainly Linux with the NAA OS or HQPlayer OS image. Functionally somewhat similar, but technically very different already because of different OS. Linux is primary platform for NAA. Windows and macOS version exists just because it is possible, for some obscure corner cases where it is not possible to run OS purpose built for NAA. Thank you! Is there functionally much difference between using the NAA image vs a standard linux distro and installing NAA on that? I'm intending to use the NUC for both roon core and HQP NAA but was curious if there was a benefit to having a device with the NAA image only installed https://youtube.com/goldensound Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara Link to comment
Miska Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 1 hour ago, GoldenOne said: Is there functionally much difference between using the NAA image vs a standard linux distro and installing NAA on that? It depends on how much stripped down the Linux distro ends up being. For example Fedora Minimal can be pretty slim. Ubuntu Server in minimal install can be fairly slim. But these are overall better for running HQPlayer Embedded rather than NAA. For NAA I still prefer a purpose built distro. Either way, massively different from Windows or macOS though. But in the end, depends on your goals for a NAA... Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Am I the only one having problems installing HQPlayer 4.11 in Ubuntu? It appears installed but will not open. edit. Nevermind, it was operator error. No electron left behind. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 @Miska for future reference, can I use a command like "sudo dkpg -if path to package" or do I need to separate the "-I" and "-f" into two separate commands? No electron left behind. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 58 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: Am I the only one having problems Yes. 😁 AudioDoctor 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 15 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Yes. 😁 Typical. The Computer Audiophile 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
Popular Post Chodi Posted May 11, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 11, 2021 I've been an HQPlayer user since forever. I read but don't post. I have not posted on this forum in a very long time. I have the latest version and I have always used it at home on my Windows computer. Don't use any streaming service I have thousands of classical and pop music files stored on several hard disks in lossless flac. So now we get to the point. I recently upgraded to AMD 5800X processor. I was not happy with the improvement in windows with HQPlayer 4 so I decided to take the plunge. I loaded and configured my system for dual boot with Windows 10 and Linux Mint. I have never used Linux in my life but I consider myself very computer wise so I went for it. After a day of learning I got HQplayer 4 working in Linux with my many ntfs hard disk music files and the sound is glorious. It is like the greatest upgrade I have ever experienced. Absolutely no comparison with listening to the same files in windows. I don't even want to suggest why, I'm sure Miska, our fearless leader, knows the reasons. My only conclusion from this is that it is a crime to listen to music through HQplayer on windows if you have any way to do it with Linux. The difference in sound on my system is astounding. Yes there is a learning curve to install and dual boot windows and Linux. It took me a day and a half to get it right. Don't even think about it unless you have a backup program like Acronis. Saved me from disaster more than once. Leaning Linux Mint took several hours but boy was it worth the effort. Just wanted to share my experience with Linux. Unbelievable sound difference from windows. I never would have thought that or I would have made the move long ago. AudioDoctor, Miska, dctom and 1 other 1 1 2 Link to comment
GoldenOne Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 @Miskawould you be able to tell us a little about the new sinc-Mx and ext3 filters? What does the 'constant time' thing mean? Also are you able to talk about what causes the apodising filter indicator to go off? Thank you! Looking forward to trying the new update tomorrow :) AudioDoctor 1 https://youtube.com/goldensound Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Chodi said: I've been an HQPlayer user since forever. I read but don't post. I have not posted on this forum in a very long time. I have the latest version and I have always used it at home on my Windows computer. Don't use any streaming service I have thousands of classical and pop music files stored on several hard disks in lossless flac. So now we get to the point. I recently upgraded to AMD 5800X processor. I was not happy with the improvement in windows with HQPlayer 4 so I decided to take the plunge. I loaded and configured my system for dual boot with Windows 10 and Linux Mint. I have never used Linux in my life but I consider myself very computer wise so I went for it. After a day of learning I got HQplayer 4 working in Linux with my many ntfs hard disk music files and the sound is glorious. It is like the greatest upgrade I have ever experienced. Absolutely no comparison with listening to the same files in windows. I don't even want to suggest why, I'm sure Miska, our fearless leader, knows the reasons. My only conclusion from this is that it is a crime to listen to music through HQplayer on windows if you have any way to do it with Linux. The difference in sound on my system is astounding. Yes there is a learning curve to install and dual boot windows and Linux. It took me a day and a half to get it right. Don't even think about it unless you have a backup program like Acronis. Saved me from disaster more than once. Leaning Linux Mint took several hours but boy was it worth the effort. Just wanted to share my experience with Linux. Unbelievable sound difference from windows. I never would have thought that or I would have made the move long ago. I am writing this from my Mac, but my music server runs Linux for a reason. No electron left behind. Link to comment
numlog Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 How 'lossy' is converting DSD to equivalent high res PCM and what is the nature of the loss? or would it technically 100% lossy because of the conversion taking place? Obviously the only loss to be concerned about is the loss of musical information but don't think that's gonna be easy to objectively quantify. I could test and listen but I'm more interested in the theory behind it. The main things I've been wondering about is the choice of bit depth and also any effect of maintaining a 'native' conversion rate, based on the data rates. e.g DSD64 = 2.8224 MHz 1 bit possible PCM 'native' equivalents = 176.4kHz x 16 bit, 117.6kHz x 24 bit, 141.1kHz x 20 bit While 141.1kHz x 20 bit wont be realistically possible (AFAIK), it would seem to be the most balanced choice compared to 16 bit (possibly too low) or 24bit (completely overkill). That is assuming there is anything remotely 'native' about this. You could use 176.4kHz x 24 bit, but based on the data rate wouldn't it involve some sort of rounding ? Instead you could use 176.4khz x 32bit, but this would still be sort of 'upsampling' (changing the data rate). Im already guessing having the same data rate is pretty meaningless and any semblance of the original data is already lost in the conversion process. However I am dealing with R2R DACs/SPDIF so 32bit isn't any option. Link to comment
ted_b Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 32 minutes ago, GoldenOne said: @Miskawould you be able to tell us a little about the new sinc-Mx and ext3 filters? What does the 'constant time' thing mean? Also are you able to talk about what causes the apodising filter indicator to go off? Thank you! Looking forward to trying the new update tomorrow :) Tried ext3 on both redbook and 24/192 and neither can't do it (to 32fs) on my i7-6700k. Dropouts every few seconds. We'll have to see what it does cuz it's a heavyweight. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Miska Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 9 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: @Miska for future reference, can I use a command like "sudo dkpg -if path to package" or do I need to separate the "-I" and "-f" into two separate commands? I guess your initial problem was missing dependencies, since there are some new ones with 4.11? First install new HQPlayer package with "sudo dpkg -i" and then ensure all dependencies are in with "sudo apt install -f". AudioDoctor 1 Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Zauurx Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Under Win10, same configuration same filter (DSD256, Ext2, ADSM07EC), same file, same convolution... just 4.103 to 4.110... : 118 threads for HQP to 372 threads. Why ? 🧐 Tested twice. Same file launched via Roon. ROON + HQP / Hdplex H3-i5 + 400ATX >Gustard A26 (NAA twk) > SQM > Benchmark AHB2 / Recital Audio Illumine HEFA Link to comment
Miska Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 7 hours ago, GoldenOne said: @Miskawould you be able to tell us a little about the new sinc-Mx and ext3 filters? ext3 is much steeper version of ext2, I posted the responses on Roon forum, so I can do the same here too. So here's ext2 (RedBook source): And here's ext3: sinc-Mx is constant time, meaning that it has variable number of taps but it's length (delay) is constant for each rate multiple. It has 1M taps at 16x output rate, 0.5M taps at 8x output rate, and 16M taps at 256x output rate. And if you have enough GPU power, you can do 64M taps at 1024x rate. Note that processing for example 16M taps at 256x (~12 MHz) rate is 16 times heavier than it would be to process that number of taps at 16x (~750 kHz) rate. This makes sinc-Mx work sensibly also for lower output rates like 192k since it gets shorter. 7 hours ago, GoldenOne said: Also are you able to talk about what causes the apodising filter indicator to go off? Not really... But I want to emphasize few things about using it. It only works when you are using original, or down-converted source content. Even if source content doesn't need apodizing filter, there is absolutely no harm in using apodizing filter. But using non-apodizing filter on source content that would need one, means that all the errors in the source content are reproduced and you are likely not getting output signal you'd want. Interpreting the resulting number is not absolute. If a track has let's say under 100 indications, it likely has some clipping but doesn't necessarily need an apodizing filter. If you get over 1000 indications, you'd certainly want to use an apodizing filter. GoldenOne 1 Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Miska Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 6 hours ago, ted_b said: Tried ext3 on both redbook and 24/192 and neither can't do it (to 32fs) on my i7-6700k. Dropouts every few seconds. We'll have to see what it does cuz it's a heavyweight. Yeah, this is something where an 8-core or more CPU comes handy. Or a powerful GPU. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Jean Paul D Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Miska said: Yeah, this is something where an 8-core or more CPU comes handy. Or a powerful GPU. M1 has 8 cores and can't do it at a mere 128( but/7EC + convo) HQ Player 4 Mac Mini M1 Link to comment
brother love Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 i7-6700k 4 core/ 8 thread stock Intel GPU, Ubuntu 20.04 OS, redbook upsampled to DSD256 ext3/ ASDM7EC works fine w/no drop-outs (ext2/ 7EC CPU 2 & 4: 22% ea. vs. 65% ea. for ext3/ 7EC): My audio rig Link to comment
ted_b Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 I have the same cpu, but no gpu (not sure what "stock Intel GPU" is), run Windows 10 instead of Ubuntu (into Jussi NAA image), and cannot do above without dropouts every 5 seconds. The dropout frequency is about the same as trying ext3 with 32fs or 16fs. At 8fs (352.8k for redbook) all is well. Haven't eval'd ext3 for sq, just compatibility so far. "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
firedog Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Miska said: Yeah, this is something where an 8-core or more CPU comes handy. Or a powerful GPU. I have an i7-10700K. No GPU. It also had dropouts doing DSD 256 ASDM7EC and ext-3. CPU usage more than doubled over using ext-2 instead. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
brother love Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 hour ago, ted_b said: I have the same cpu, but no gpu (not sure what "stock Intel GPU" is)... Intel nomenclature states "Processor Graphics: Intel HD Graphics 530" that is part of the i7-6700k CPU. Guess I should have left the "U" unit off the description 😀 (or better yet no GPU). My audio rig Link to comment
GoldenOne Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Well, got the NUC set up with windows yesterday. Switched to linux (ubuntu 20.04) today. Won't run 1.536mhz via NAA :( 768khz is fine, but 1.536mhz is a no go. Additionally with the HQP NAA OS installed on another intel x5 mini pc, that 'works' but I get pauses every few seconds. Whereas with windows installed on it it's fine. Looks like windows might be the only option to run roon and HQP NAA without issues :( https://youtube.com/goldensound Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara Link to comment
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