HQ Player

[arglebargle]

I do love Roon.... sometimes. Lately I’m more enamoured with the sound quality and simplicity of Embedded with Ales Prochazka’s HQPDcontrol app. iOS version too. Adaptive volume in HQPlayer was the final piece of the puzzle for me. Big playlist listener and it is so much more transparent than Roon’s. 

[ted_b]

1 hour ago, arglebargle said:

I do love Roon.... sometimes. Lately I’m more enamoured with the sound quality and simplicity of Embedded with Ales Prochazka’s HQPDcontrol app. iOS version too. Adaptive volume in HQPlayer was the final piece of the puzzle for me. Big playlist listener and it is so much more transparent than Roon’s. 

Same here...sometimes.  If I do the embedded thing (HQP OS) I am not immediately thinking Roon (I have a license), but instead HQPDcontrol.  But not sure where I'd do settings (picking device, etc).  But then I could go as far as 3 pc (Roon on new unopened Mac Mini M1), embedded on i7-6700k machine, and NAA on my NUC7i7 Aksa case box.  I think?

[brother love]

I updated to versions 4.9.0 Desktop & 4.1.12 x 64.7z NAA Monday morning after seeing blueninjasix post Sunday lauding this latest version. My system & HQPlayer settings are listed in my signature. My NAA has 8gb memory. I have been glitch-free after listening to approx. 20 hrs. of music. So nothing broken here! 

[ted_b]

So I booted my i7-6700k server to HQPlayer embedded (HQP OS) and wanted to compare to HQplayer Desktop 4.9.0 (Win10) but ran into a first hurdle.....after seveal attempts at /run/media I found out that HQP OS does not see my external hdd cuz it's formatted NTFS.  So  once I figured this out I copied some music onto a Fat32 USB thumb drive (one of those micro sized ones that are barely the size of the tip of a normal USB drive) and tried again.  This time it scanned the drive and gave me a test library, but two things are hampering my comparisons.  One, the startech HDD, powered by Hynes, is a much better music drive but is currently NTFS.  Second, my USB tip-of-the-thumb drive was scanned but only the wav files were found.  It left out FLAC and DSF.  ??

 

Anyway, sound is very good.  Tmrw I will try and use this same mediocre thumb drive as music source for the move back to Desktop, too.

 

Weird question: could I have two partitions on a disc drive with the same music, one Fat32 the other NTFS.  Or are there any downsides to just copying these 4 tb of music (my faves) to a new drive formatted Fat32 and placed in the Startech enclosure, playable by both Linux and Windows?

[LoryWiv]

22 hours ago, Confused said:

A question to those of you reporting that 4.9.0 has superior sound quality, (or indeed those who do not find this to be the case) what is your use case for HQPlayer?  That is, are you upsampling PCM or performing PCM to DSD conversion?  Similarly, do you have a PC + endpoint scenario or a "one box" system?

 

I guess I am just thinking aloud here, but I am just wondering if there is any correlation between those finding (or not finding) 4.9.0 to be superior and how HQPlayer is being implemented.

I am converting redbook FLAc or 24 bit FLAC to DSD128, ASDME5C, Snc-S and am clearly in the minority but found 4.90 a bit syrupy / warm, and am now enjoying 4.92 immensely. it may have just been my brain state the evening I ran 4.90 (nothing sounds it's best after a fatiguing day at work) but I am content  with 4.92 and not feeling any desire to roll back. I'm glad many others found something special with 4.90, though. Enjoy!

[stefano_mbp]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

HQP OS does not see my external hdd cuz it's formatted NTFS

 

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

my USB tip-of-the-thumb drive was scanned but only the wav files were found.  It left out FLAC and DSF.  ??

this behavior is with Ubuntu /HQPlayerd too... No flac too here ... unbelievable ....

and I can add that neither HFS+ is accepted ....

... and with the unreliable gapless functionality in upnp mode (Minimserver) we cannot actually say that hqplayerd is a “friendly” experience ....

 

[stefano_mbp]

20 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

unreliable gapless functionality

... this happens using Euphony too ... and Euphony confirmed (???)

[asdf1000]

LOL

 

"A novel way to massively improve the SQ of..." has invaded Jussi's world 😄

 

You guys have him SWEATING right now, in cold winter Finland

[jacquesr]

If Jussi can’t find the solution, we are all Finn-ished...

[SwissBear]

6 hours ago, LoryWiv said:

I am converting redbook FLAc or 24 bit FLAC to DSD128, ASDME5C, Snc-S and am clearly in the minority but found 4.90 a bit syrupy / warm, and am now enjoying 4.92 immensely. it may have just been my brain state the evening I ran 4.90 (nothing sounds it's best after a fatiguing day at work) but I am content  with 4.92 and not feeling any desire to roll back. I'm glad many others found something special with 4.90, though. Enjoy!

 

+1 with you Lory. Very happy with 4.9.2 too

[asdf1000]

Jussi just posted on Instagram, what he's up to.

 

You guys have ruined the guy's weekend

 

[ted_b]

6 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

this behavior is with Ubuntu /HQPlayerd too... No flac too here

I don't understand this.  There are dozens and dozens of FLAC use comments on the embedded thread, yet my FLAC was not seen.  And why would my DSF files not get scanned; DSF is "native" to HQPlayer!  I'm not going forward until I understand this.  My WIn10 desktop sounds wonderful, and going embedded is not worth it if I have to convert thousands of albums from FLAC to wav (let alone the dsf issue).  Any ideas?  I assume it's user error on my part.

[Nikko1960]

I greatly appreciate the efficiency gains in 4.9.2 desktop.  When Sinc-L was introduced it replaced ext2 as my go-to, but the price was that I had to reduce DSD upsampling from x128 to x64 as my Mac Mini started stuttering with x128.  Not any more.  The fan may be maxed out on the Mini but the music is back to sublime at x128.  Thanks, Jussi!

[Theobetley]

I did not try Lloyd disc but I just switched back to 4.9 and wow this is the one...upper midrange is divine. I dont how many old timers are here from the famous cics cply/cmp days but once cics made the comment that sq was affected by the way (order) the source code was compiled. So Jussi maybe we have that situation here. Just went back to 4.9.2...tighter, better bass. Don't criticize my fickle preferences..I'm retired

[luisma]

12 hours ago, SwissBear said:

+1 with you Lory. Very happy with 4.9.2 too

+2

I'm on Focal, exclusively running SDM 256 7EC and SDM 512 ASDM7 for the last 3 months, ESS hardware Project S2

As a matter of fact 4.9.2 allowed me to run ASDM7EC with no drops

 

EDIT: should have added poli-ext2

[Iceaero]

10 hours ago, Nikko1960 said:

I greatly appreciate the efficiency gains in 4.9.2 desktop.  When Sinc-L was introduced it replaced ext2 as my go-to, but the price was that I had to reduce DSD upsampling from x128 to x64 as my Mac Mini started stuttering with x128.  Not any more.  The fan may be maxed out on the Mini but the music is back to sublime at x128.  Thanks, Jussi!

Spending a few hours tonight with Sinc-L for the first time and I’m just loving it. 

[k6davis]

16 hours ago, Iceaero said:

Spending a few hours tonight with Sinc-L for the first time and I’m just loving it. 

 

Would you and @Nikko1960 share more about what CPU/GPU are you're using and what it's capable of using Sinc-L? 

 

Are you upsampling high-res PCM to DSD? Using an EC modulator? Using 48x? To what bitrate?

 

I'm away from home right now and can't listen for myself, but I gather from your posts that you both feel that Sinc-L is worth using even if you need to reduce you bitrate to use it? 

 

Thanks.

[Nikko1960]

2 hours ago, k6davis said:

 

Would you and @Nikko1960 share more about what CPU/GPU are you're using and what it's capable of using Sinc-L? 

Sure, no probs.  I have a late 2014 Mac Mini with 3GHz Intel core i7, 16 gig RAM running Mojave. The computer has a 1TB HDD but I keep this dismounted and instead boot the computer off a high performance SD card.

2 hours ago, k6davis said:

Are you upsampling high-res PCM to DSD? Using an EC modulator? Using 48x? To what bitrate?

I have Sinc-L chosen as my red-book filter and use poly-sinc-mqa-lp for higher rez content.  Both use DSD5EC as the modulator.  I upsample to DSD128, which is the maximum that my BMC PureDac can handle.  The Mac Mini can barely run Sinc-L and Roon at the same time.  To the point where, if I access Roon on my iPhone whilst playing music, it stutters as Roon processes the request.  So I'm right on the edge of what is possible with this processor.  Before Jussi's latest release, I could only manage DSD64 but something has become more efficient.

 

I plan to replace the Intel Mac Mini with the latest M1 version (minimum spec), as I'm planning to upgrade the DAC to a Lampi Amber 3 which can accept up to DSD512.  I think the M1 is good for DSD256 from what I read here.

2 hours ago, k6davis said:

 

I'm away from home right now and can't listen for myself, but I gather from your posts that you both feel that Sinc-L is worth using even if you need to reduce you bitrate to use it? 

Definitely, for me at least.  YMMV.  Happy listening!

2 hours ago, k6davis said:

 

Thanks.

 

[arglebargle]

On the subject of sinc-L, I vaguely recall @Miska saying that DSD256 would require 12GB of video ram for CUDA offload. Maybe optimizations have improved performance since then? 

 

I was pleasantly surprised to get stutter-free playback of sinc-l, even 192k pcm @ DSD256, with my 8GB 2060 Super.  ASDM7EC modulator is handled by a 10600k @ 4.8 ghz on all cores. Very happy with the options this i5 cpu got me for its price point. (I’m using Ubuntu 20.04 and Embedded, ymmv.) 
 

Sinc-L is a filter that, like closed-form-m, will inspire me to pull out all the great audiophile material for a weekend of listening before going back to good ol’ set-and-forget ext2. Beautifully relaxed top end, but with more detail than xtr. If it’s there. 

[ted_b]

So, the embedded 4.21.1 (HQP OS) sq is equal to the 4.9 HQplayer Win10 desktop (booted separately of course) with the Win10 exhibiting less or no transition noise (DSD track to PCM track and back) but it's a nit.  The biggest (short-term) downside of embedded is that it won't read my NTFS 4 TB attached hdd, so I'd have to dump it somewhere and reformat to fat32 or ext.

 

So......my computer inventory is as follows:

* i7-6700k Win10 AO-tweaked optane-based OS (currently my HQPlayer all-in-machine; drag-n-drop library mgmt).  An old stalwart!

* NUC 7i7 Atsa-case fanless running AL (currently on side lines; was NAA for awhile)

* Mac Mini M1 (unopened brand new)

 

Talk me out of this whacky but maybe quite workable 3 pc setup:

* NUC 7i7 becomes Rooncore machine (I own Roon license; dedicated library mgt and sends music to HQPlayer machine)

* Mac Mini M1 running HQPlayer (runs EC modulators well supposedly via very efficient multicore ARM architecture)

* I76700K beast runs Win10 NAA cuz I love the sound of ASIO drivers and I like this machine's linear powered USB card, etc.  Could also run some Roon function?

Not explored: Does rooncore run well on AL?

 

So net/net I'm trading off direct USB and rudimentary drag-n-drop via local HQPlayer with a supposedly well-isolated internet (noise?) on this 3 way Roon/HQPlayer/NAA signal path.   I'm mainly worried that even a separate Roon server will not serve music to HQP as clean as I was via drag-n-drop from Windows Explorer via Tightvnc.

[k6davis]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

I'm mainly worried that even a separate Roon server will not serve music to HQP as clean as I was via drag-n-drop from Windows Explorer via Tightvnc.

 

For me, Roon is a mixed bag things I love and a few things that I wish were designed differently. But one thing that it does extremely well is serve music to HQP. In any file format, including formats that HQP can't receive directly. Gapless works perfectly. There are no pops, clicks or noises when transitioning from PCM to DSD. The interface between Roon and HQP is seamless and sonically and operationally transparent. 

[ted_b]

k6davis,

Thanks I appreciate the comments.  I haven't seriously used the Roon/HQPlayer combo since we moved (almost 3 yrs), and a guess a lot has changed.  The interface was always good, but sonically I felt it was a compromise....but back then they existed on the same machine.

[toddrhodes]

I'm essentially running a 3-device, Roon-to-HQPlayer setup. And it sounds absolutely beguiling to me. I've had occasion in the past to dismiss file-based audio, going from a Roon machine to a network endpoint and out to a Schiit DAC via USB. It was ok, but rather easily bested by a good CD transport on like material, into the same DAC.

 

Now, though... with a dedicated machine running HQP at DSD256, ASDM7EC, the HQP NAA Image feeding my DAC from a completely stock, basic Pi4 with no manner of magic USB cable in sight, it's stunning.

 

I've spent most of my music-listening life as a devout metalhead, an armchair rocker and air drum aficionado. But since this new digital rig and the addition of Dyn Confidence C2 Platinums, well, I find myself right now as I'm typing this listening to Concert Allegro Op. 134, Busoni works for Piano. This setup does just fine with Tool and Death and Dire Straits, too, but the level of transparency and refinement I now get from digital files is unmistakable. 

 

The only other time I had this much fun in this hobby was when I discovered vinyl. Sadly, my table hasn't spun a record in several weeks. I need to fix that, but have I mentioned how amazing this piano concerto sounds?!? 

[asdf1000]

On 4/18/2020 at 7:17 PM, asdf1000 said:

@Miska I don't use Desktop version of HQP (only use Embedded) but if using HQP Desktop on macOS, what is your recommended way to use loopback of software audio, for example Tidal Desktop app or Qobuz Desktop app (or any app)?

 

Is your preferred loopback software bit-perfect for different sample rates?

 

How to set this up in HQP Desktop?

 

Can you share some screenshots

 

 

Just an update - I am using 'Black Hole' as virtual audio device and it works brilliant with HQPlayer Desktop 4.9.2 , as an input for CoreAudio.  This is on Mac M1 (Arm , Apple Silicon)

 

Sharing screenshots below in case it helps others wanting to route Spotify, Apple Music, Soundcloud etc through HQPlayer (without buying another box).

 

Black Hole is free (Amoeba Loopback is over US$100).

 

http://existential.audio

 

[asdf1000]

On 11/24/2020 at 3:22 PM, Bob Stern said:

Only HQP playing the test file directly to the DAC passed the 32 bit test. 

 

Hi Bob - what HQP settings did you have to allow it to pass the RME 32 bit perfect test file?

 

Edit: got it to work. Everything off. I forgot I had pipeline matrix enabled.

 

Just as a way to test Black Hole for bit perfectness, it passes the RME 24bit test :-)

 

Audirvana RME test file -> Black Hole -> HQplayer -> RME ADI-2

 

And Black Hole is free !