HQ Player

[ambre]

On 12/11/2020 at 2:34 PM, SwissBear said:

 

I just tried. I kind of noticed that a 400 % load of HQPlayer was the threshold when clicks and pops started. And this is what happens with such oversampling filter. I did not stay long enough to evaluate fan behavior as this was not so pleasant to listen to  :-)

 

Hi Swissbear and other Mac Mini M1 users

 

What is now your experiences  with upsampling after a few weeks with Mac M1 to DSD Multicore DSP" checked in yr case for DSD5EC, ASDM5EC and ASDM7EC work from RedBook to DSD256 . 

 

 I use the free ware version( pls see AppStore)  of Mac Fan Control to measure  temperature and rpm of the fan in the Mac mini.

 

Default resp. idle fan rpm is 1700 rpm (you cannot hear it). I used  ASMD7 without any problems resp disturbing noise of the fan. Ps. 

 

When I use  ASDM7EC my Mac mini I7,2018 model runs up to3500-3800 rpm. Ps. Max fan-speed  is 4400 rpm. Ps. My Mac mini is located in my rack in the room. 

together with the Uptone Etherregen switch etc.The lower EC generate less fan-speed resp. noise.

 

Another question what is your personal ranking of the filters poly-since -ext2 compared with ASDM7 and using the lower and higher EC noise shapers?

 

Before I order a new Mac Mini M1 I want  to make sure to running EC filters can be done without to much fan-noise.

 

Very best regards, Andreas

[stefano_mbp]

@ambre even if you disagree the gapless issue is there ... and what's really ridiculous is that @Miska claims that gapless can never be guaranteed (not due to his sw of course) ... that’s totally fool

.... if you can listen to an Opera or just Pink Floyd without gapless ... you are happy

[ambre]

3 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

@ambre even if you disagree the gapless issue is there ... and what's really ridiculous is that @Miska claims that gapless can never be guaranteed (not due to his sw of course) ... that’s totally fool

.... if you can listen to an Opera or just Pink Floyd without gapless ... you are happy

End of discusion

[ted_b]

12 minutes ago, ambre said:

End of discusion

+100 

Stefano, no offense but your attitude and verbiage sucks!  Jussi has produced a great player, and I get gapless all the time.  Gapless is a table stake in music, and sometimes software and/or hardware makes it impossible...not Jussi's fault.  So quit with the derogatory remarks or I'll ask Chris to intervene.  We can discuss without the put downs!!

[Miska]

1 hour ago, ambre said:

What is now your experiences  with upsampling after a few weeks with Mac M1 to DSD Multicore DSP" checked in yr case for DSD5EC, ASDM5EC and ASDM7EC work from RedBook to DSD256 . 

 

It should be left greyed now. Auto-tunings have been readjusted for the new M1.

 

1 hour ago, ambre said:

I use the free ware version( pls see AppStore)  of Mac Fan Control to measure  temperature and rpm of the fan in the Mac mini

 

At least for me, this doesn't appear in AppStore search, maybe there's no M1 compatible version.

 

1 hour ago, ambre said:

Before I order a new Mac Mini M1 I want  to make sure to running EC filters can be done without to much fan-noise.

 

I have the Mac Mini on my office desk and the fan is not so loud in this condition that it would disturb my listening. It is not totally silent, so if I mute my amp I can hear it. But likely not if I'd place it in the equipment rack. Of course things also depend on environmental temperature and maybe specific device unit (maybe not every fan is identical). So it will be hard to give exhaustive answer.

 

 

[ambre]

13 minutes ago, Miska said:

At least for me, this doesn't appear in AppStore search, maybe there's no M1 compatible version.

Correct Jussy,

 

Apple Silicon (arm64 M1 chip) based computers support is in progress.

https://crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control

 

[pkane2001]

@Miska, were there any changes to the HTTP control API with desktop HQPlayer 4 from 3? Is there an updated source code example of the changes somewhere like there was for v3? 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, pkane2001 said:

@Miska, were there any changes to the HTTP control API with desktop HQPlayer 4 from 3? Is there an updated source code example of the changes somewhere like there was for v3? 

 

It is not HTTP, but XML-over-TCP. But the source codes for the control API client reference implementation (also used by HQPlayer Client) can be found here, at the end of the page: https://www.signalyst.com/custom.html

This includes also source code for the hqp-control2 command line tool.

 

[pkane2001]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

It is not HTTP, but XML-over-TCP. But the source codes for the control API client reference implementation (also used by HQPlayer Client) can be found here, at the end of the page: https://www.signalyst.com/custom.html

This includes also source code for the hqp-control2 command line tool.

 

 

Ah, yes, not HTTP. It's been a few years since I used it :) Thanks for the link!

[georgios]

Hey Miska

 

I'm new to HQPlayer and now waiting for T+A DAC8 DSD to arrive. It looks like the better solution is now Apple M1 computer, isn't it? I guess I can save the funds of upgrading my current computer (i7 6700 without K, 32 GB memory) for power supply/USB card to buy a M1 and current computer can be used as NAA to get the best sound quality out of it? Is it right?

[Miska]

Just now, georgios said:

I'm new to HQPlayer and now waiting for T+A DAC8 DSD to arrive. It looks like the better solution is now Apple M1 computer, isn't it? I guess I can save the funds of upgrading my current computer for power supply/USB card to buy a M1 and currently computer can be used as NAA to get the best sound quality out of it? Is it right?

 

You can do that if you like, depending on what kind of computer you now have. But I don't think there is horribly lot of sense to run a Windows-based NAA for sound quality purposes.

 

[toddrhodes]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

You can do that if you like, depending on what kind of computer you now have. But I don't think there is horribly lot of sense to run a Windows-based NAA for sound quality purposes.

 

 

Greetings Miska! Just want to piggyback on here, given my own little experiments lately around this area. I'm currently using a barebones Win10 PC (i6700k, 16 Gb ram, no GPU, and everything stripped out of the O/S manually, at least that I can comfortably remove or stop from running) to handle the HQP function of upsampling to DSD256 and using ASDM5EC. It sounds very good to my ears. I am directly connecting that machine to my Ares II DAC via USB cable. 

 

If I'm following your statement correctly, you believe I would in all likelihood see an increase, or at least different sound, by not connecting to the DAC with that machine, but instead going through an NAA which connects to the DAC like a Pi4 or Sonore product?

I will try this out now that I have this setup functional. Seems a fun experiment, if nothing else.

[toddrhodes]

Well I'll be damned... I would say that the whole thing sounds more open and spacious and better articulates details by going back to the Pi4 NAA (using RoPieee image). So now I'm basically fully broken out, I think:
 

One PC runs RoonCore and DB

Separate PC handles all HQP upsampling

Pi4 NAA outputs to DAC via USB.

 

It's not exactly simple, but I think it works pretty darn well.

[asdf1000]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

But I don't think there is horribly lot of sense to run a Windows-based NAA for sound quality purposes.

 

Unless Windows ASIO driver allows clean output not possible with Linux?

 

I had issues with Focusrite, Steinberg & RME UCX multichannel interfaces with latest HQP OS and NAA images - all resulted in vinyl popping sounds.

 

But with their official Windows ASIO drivers, clean sound.

 

These issues are not your fault of course - but all these interfaces claim 'Class Compliant'.

 

[Miska]

8 hours ago, toddrhodes said:

If I'm following your statement correctly, you believe I would in all likelihood see an increase, or at least different sound, by not connecting to the DAC with that machine, but instead going through an NAA which connects to the DAC like a Pi4 or Sonore product?

 

Note that for the DAC8 DSD you need a NAA running Windows to reach rates above DSD128. This limits possible NAA choices, so at the moment I'm running DAC8 DSD straight from DAC UP2 USB port of the Gigabyte motherboard, same machine where HQPlayer is running.

 

When I used NAA with DAC8 DSD, I used the CL100 with Windows (Atom CPU). But problem is always all the Windows bloat.

 

Pi4 can be sort of quiet low power device with correct PSU. And of course Sonore and SoTM. But with DAC8 DSD these become functionally limiting, unless you are brave enough to flash the USB interface in DAC8 DSD with the Amanero beta firmware.

 

[Miska]

7 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

Unless Windows ASIO driver allows clean output not possible with Linux?

 

I had issues with Focusrite, Steinberg & RME UCX multichannel interfaces with latest HQP OS and NAA images - all resulted in vinyl popping sounds.

 

But with their official Windows ASIO drivers, clean sound.

 

These issues are not your fault of course - but all these interfaces claim 'Class Compliant'.

 

But it's still Windows. So you could as well run HQPlayer there straight instead of having a NAA. Unless the NAA is used for the purpose of relocating the HQPlayer server outside of the listening room.

 

I would think the RME UCX should actually work if it's based on the same USB implementation as ADI-2. Did you check that you have latest firmware in the UCX?

 

[juanitox]

i can run DSD256 with DSD5EC polysincEXT2 with my ol fanless I6700K PC without GPU , directly to my HOLO spring 2dac , is adding a PI NAA with HQplayer  will sound better or not ? 😗

[Miska]

36 minutes ago, juanitox said:

i can run DSD256 with DSD5EC polysincEXT2 with my ol fanless I6700K PC without GPU , directly to my HOLO spring 2dac , is adding a PI NAA with HQplayer  will sound better or not ? 😗

 

I would rather use the UP Gateway NAA instead, that is what I'm using myself, with a medical grade floating PSU.

 

But the USB in Holo is not bad at all, so the main benefit comes just from breaking a ground link.

 

[SwissBear]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

I would rather use the UP Gateway NAA instead, that is what I'm using myself, with a medical grade floating PSU.

 

Hi Jussi,

 

Thanks for the heads-up on the PSU. Could you kindly be more specific and make a precise recommendation ?

Thanks in advance :-)

[SwissBear]

On 12/22/2020 at 6:28 PM, ambre said:

 

Hi Swissbear and other Mac Mini M1 users

 

What is now your experiences  with upsampling after a few weeks with Mac M1 to DSD Multicore DSP" checked in yr case for DSD5EC, ASDM5EC and ASDM7EC work from RedBook to DSD256 . 

...

Mac mini is located in my rack in the room. 

together with the Uptone Etherregen switch etc.The lower EC generate less fan-speed resp. noise.

 

Hi Andreas,

 

I notice that I did not reply to your question. I also notice that Jussi has covered most of your concerns.

I would just like to underline the fact that my Mac Mini M1 has a PSU which is quite noisy electromagnetically in the sense that it is polluting some of the other equipments I have powered on the same rack. So I decided to put it in a place in my house where this is not a concern.

But the performance of the machine, and the code produced by Jussi to make the best use of it are awesome :-)

Hope this helps.

[il Carletto]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

This limits possible NAA choices, so at the moment I'm running DAC8 DSD straight from DAC UP2 USB port of the Gigabyte motherboard, same machine where HQPlayer is running.

 

Jussi, can I ask wich Gigabyte motherboard are you using?

[SwissBear]

Hi Jussi,

I have made extensive listening with the new software and 2 DACs I have: one x-Sabre Pro and one darTZeel LHC-208. On both installations I noticed the quality of the experience I had with the ASDM7EC modulator in DSD 256, but I also noticed that I had a preference when I used a mode to input my DAC in PCM 20/196, which allowed me to go through a Mutec MC-3+USB to transform the USB flow into an SPDIF flow clocked with a Mutec REF-10.

This is just a personal preference and absolutely not a judgement of the quality of the DSD flow produced by your code which is awesome.

 

I chose the 20 bits output based on the assumption that both DACs have a dynamic range in the ballpark of 120-130 db. Is this correct ?

 

I would appreciate if you could help me choose the best filters to upsample/downsample depending on the music records I have to produce this 20/192 flow. I am mainly listening to classical music and jazz/blues. I selected the poly-sinc-xxx-lp filters and tried some of them. I noticed that the poly-sinc-xtr-lp was producing balanced results. The poly-sing-long-lp takes forever to start playing and does not seem an option. Is it ? 

I am using the NS-9 noise shaper.

Any recommendation ?

Thanks and Happy Holidays to everyone :-)

 

Pierre

[juanitox]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I would rather use the UP Gateway NAA instead, that is what I'm using myself, with a medical grade floating PSU.

 

But the USB in Holo is not bad at all, so the main benefit comes just from breaking a ground link.

 

thanks for your answer Miska , i thought that the HOLO spring 2 already have isolated Usb interface.

[Miska]

3 hours ago, SwissBear said:

Thanks for the heads-up on the PSU. Could you kindly be more specific and make a precise recommendation ?

Thanks in advance :-)

 

Sorry, I don't have any. The Type-C power connector makes it a little bit more tricky again. But you could ask for example Teddy Pardo if they have something suitable.

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, juanitox said:

thanks for your answer Miska , i thought that the HOLO spring 2 already have isolated Usb interface.

 

Yes, Spring 1/2 have isolated interface. But still I can measure some differences with ground plane. If you use NAA, just make sure the ethernet cable you are using doesn't connect grounds (is U/UTP type).