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55 minutes ago, toddrhodes said:

So, using USB if I stick with DSD128 or DSD64 and use 44.1 as the bitrate, and use a light modulator like ASDM5 or ASDM7, it plays pretty much flawlessly. At least I haven't heard any issues. But as soon as I use the same modulators and try 256/44.1, or try to use something like ASDM5EC, I start getting these little ticks intermittently. Not sure if that helps any. I doubt it's my PC but in case it's the PC that can't keep up, I should be getting a Ryzen 3700X tomorrow that I hope to put together over the weekend and on my week off next week. My current machine is about 5 years old, but it's at least an i7 6700K, 32G RAM, 2070 Super GPU and I'm using CUDA Offload. So no slouch, but it's seen better days, for sure.

 

My money would be on the PC being the problem. DSD EC at higher bitrates probably puts a strain on that 5 year old CPU.

Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, HQPlayer OS => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP NAA => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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You're probably right. I should at least know the answer to that in a few days. I can say that as good as this sounds, I'm determined to find a fix. So if the PC upgrades and fresh OS install don't do the trick, I think next I'll try an RPi 4, for its separate USB/Network unlike the Pi3 which, I think, I'm asking a LOT of right now to output DSD256 or 512. Maybe not, but it seems reasonable that could be a bottleneck as well.


If I'm being honest, just sitting here listening to Shostakovich in DSD128 with fairly benign HPQ settings sounds fabulous.

Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> Pi4 HPQ NAA

Denafrips Venus II DAC, Schiit Freya+ Preamp

SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp

Dyn Confidence C2 Platinum speakers, dedicated and treated room

Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage

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2 minutes ago, toddrhodes said:

If I'm being honest, just sitting here listening to Shostakovich in DSD128 with fairly benign HPQ settings sounds fabulous.

 

It's incredible, isn't it? 

 

I was already more than happy with what HQP was doing before EC came along, but this is just unreal. It just takes you so deep into the music.

 

Before my current machine (i7-9700K), I had a good, older AMD chip that was "limited" to DSD128 EC and it sounded great. I'm at DSD256 EC now and find it hard to imagine how DSD512 EC (when it becomes possible) could be better. But I'll be all over it when that happens!

Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, HQPlayer OS => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP NAA => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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2 hours ago, toddrhodes said:

You're probably right. I should at least know the answer to that in a few days. I can say that as good as this sounds, I'm determined to find a fix. So if the PC upgrades and fresh OS install don't do the trick, I think next I'll try an RPi 4, for its separate USB/Network unlike the Pi3 which, I think, I'm asking a LOT of right now to output DSD256 or 512. Maybe not, but it seems reasonable that could be a bottleneck as well.


If I'm being honest, just sitting here listening to Shostakovich in DSD128 with fairly benign HPQ settings sounds fabulous.

You should not get pops and clicks at DSD256 what OS are you running on the PI?

You shold try Ropieee XL.

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3 hours ago, k6davis said:

 

It's incredible, isn't it? 

 

I was already more than happy with what HQP was doing before EC came along, but this is just unreal. It just takes you so deep into the music.

 

Before my current machine (i7-9700K), I had a good, older AMD chip that was "limited" to DSD128 EC and it sounded great. I'm at DSD256 EC now and find it hard to imagine how DSD512 EC (when it becomes possible) could be better. But I'll be all over it when that happens!

 

I agree: Miska really is doing a GREAT work and i'm happy to see that in latest HQP releases performance is slightly increasing even on old cpus, probably due to further optimizations.

I can understand your eager wait for a DSD512 EC capable machine, let's see what will come out in 2021, it could be a good year for PCs... 🤘

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7 hours ago, bibo01 said:

@Miska  I suppose that your look ahead request to MinimServer gets anticipated as the upsampling rate increases.

 

The upsampling process shouldn't make any difference, since this is at the input side without rate changes there. And in this case, the upsampling process had effect only above 176k. So I suspect this is either network or CPU related. I suspect RasPi is having a lag accepting bigger chunks of data. This lag can be due to it not being to able to sustain 1 Gbps rates for longer periods. Even though 802.3x helps maintaining optimal transfer speed at all times, the NAA device may still have a sustained speed limit below 1 Gbps.

 

Trying without NAA helps indicating if the problem resides at the output side.

 

I have sort of idea how to deal with this, but it will add somewhat extra delay and overhead to the NAA output.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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48 minutes ago, Rune said:

You should not get pops and clicks at DSD256 what OS are you running on the PI?

You shold try Ropieee XL.

 

Pi's prior to Pi4 have a hardware design issue that makes it unsuitable as a NAA for USB output to DACs (works fine with I2S DAC boards up to 192k PCM though). Reason is that both the ethernet interface and the type-A USB ports on <= Pi3 share same USB bus. This combined with some hardware bugs causes lost USB packets towards DAC at higher rates. This in turn causes those 125µs dropouts in audio that sound like dust particles on vinyl.

 

On Pi4, ethernet interface is on-chip and connected to the local CPU bus instead of USB. This is more like BeagleBone or CuBox-i/Rendu/etc.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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6 hours ago, k6davis said:


@Mischa, is it possible for you, in a test scenario, to send only a single channel of a recording through HQP? Or maybe turn one of the two channels off in HQP?

 

You can try to manually edit the configuration file to have just one channel output. But I'm not sure if it works, never tested, so it may just crash or otherwise not work properly.

 

But what is the point doing that?

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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4 hours ago, toddrhodes said:

Am I on the right track that it's likely the Pi3 USB out causing the issue?

 

It is known to have issues, so I'd upgrade it to Pi4. Relatively inexpensive upgrade and then you can switch to a 64-bit OS at NAA side too, for example using my NAA OS or HQPlayer OS images.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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40 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

You can try to manually edit the configuration file to have just one channel output. But I'm not sure if it works, never tested, so it may just crash or otherwise not work properly.

 

But what is the point doing that?

 

 

Because, and this was @Luca72c's great idea, it would be beneficial to see how the M1 handles the distribution of the workload of a single channel of music.


We've already seen that the M1 can use more than 1 core per channel. But with 2 channels (stereo) and only 4 (high performance) cores, there's no way to tell if the workload could be spread to more than 2 cores per channel. 


If we can somehow test the M1 using only 1 channel, we could see if the M1 can distribute the workload to more than 2 cores per channel, or even to all of its cores. If so, that would have huge implications for DSD EC on the higher core count Apple Silicon chips that are due in the near future.

Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, HQPlayer OS => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP NAA => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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33 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Because, and this was @Luca72c's great idea, it would be beneficial to see how the M1 handles the distribution of the workload of a single channel of music.

 

Then you'll have two high loaded cores and rest are on lower load. All work load distribution is done by software, hardware is pretty dumb.

 

Quote

We've already seen that the M1 can use more than 1 core per channel. But with 2 channels (stereo) and only 4 (high performance) cores, there's no way to tell if the workload could be spread to more than 2 cores per channel.

 

I can tell, because I wrote the software! No it won't.

 

Quote

If we can somehow test the M1 using only 1 channel, we could see if the M1 can distribute the workload to more than 2 cores per channel, or even to all of its cores. 

 

Work load split is done by HQPlayer. And I already told that modulators can use either one or two cores per channel. poly-sinc filters can use any number of cores.

 

Quote

that would have huge implications for DSD EC on the higher core count Apple Silicon chips that are due in the near future

 

Not for EC, unless they decide to trade clock frequencies for more cores, which is what you see on many other CPUs. That would have large negative implications. You win on filter side, so if they keep or increase the clocks and increase number of cores (hopefully the case), then you could maybe run single stage poly-sinc filters and such.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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@toddrhodes and @SwissBear  There is one setting that sometimes can address the “random pops and ticks” issue, as it did for me with certain versions of SMS-200 firmware, is the Buffer in HQP.  It may not help but it is easy to test.  Use the minimum necessary if it helps.  In my system the frequency of the ticks increased with increased sampling rate so that could be an indicator for the issue.  I only needed to change from default to 5 msec.  Otherwise it may be CPU or network related.  

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15 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I would say it is because of less noisy USB output, rather than reclocking or such. But it is not reclocking or dealing with network side in any special way (AFAIK). Point of NAA is to sit between network and DAC while having large asynchronous RAM FIFO buffer.

 

We need to recognize that the USB clock is not related to audio clock, it is there just to facilitate the USB packet based data transfer operation. Similar way as CPU or network device clocks. Everything is "timeless" until it reaches the DAC's conversion clock.

 

We recognize that the USB side is potentially sensitive, while the network side is not (at least when used with correct type of cables - U/UTP).

 

Thank you Jussi for taking the time to share you views on these subjects and help dissipate the fog. Much appreciated :-)

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I have a question regarding convolution.

I use it for my different headphones. Occationally I can also use it to simulate speakers with headphones.

The different convolution files always come as stereo. When experimenting with different settings the following would be very useful:

  • Quick Switch between different Convolution Profiles (similar to Pipeline)
  • Accepting Convolution Stereo Files as option (similar to Roon also accepting stereo convolution files, most convolution files created by software is stereo by default)

 

Thanks, Michael

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18 minutes ago, mikel said:
  • Quick Switch between different Convolution Profiles (similar to Pipeline)
  • Accepting Convolution Stereo Files as option (similar to Roon also accepting stereo convolution files, most convolution files created by software is stereo by default)

 

You can do this with the matrix pipeline profiles, since it includes convolution engine (in a more flexible way). This is one of the main reasons why the profile feature exists.

 

19 minutes ago, mikel said:
  • Accepting Convolution Stereo Files as option (similar to Roon also accepting stereo convolution files, most convolution files created by software is stereo by default)

 

This is not done, because it is not clear how the channels should be assigned, especially in matrix pipeline. So it is less ambiguous to assign one file per each pipeline

 

For example correction stereo files usually have one correction for left channel, one for right channel.

 

While HRTF files for headphones have two responses, one for left ear and one for right ear relative to the direction. And for the other side (direction) the two responses need to be swapped. So you need two responses that result in four convolutions with cross mixing.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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18 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Have you tried same case without a NAA?

 

The results of some tests:

- not using NAA (ie using ALSA Backend)

— flac 16/44.1 delivered as is by Minimserver (without transcoding to wave)

hqplayerd upsampling to

PCM 88.2 gapless ok

PCM 176.4 gapless fails 1 on 2 attempts

PCM 352.8 gapless fails

DSD x1 gapless ok

DSD x2 gapless ok

DSD x4 gapless ok

— alac 16/44.1 transcoded to wave 16/44.1 by Minimserver 

hqplayerd upsampling to

PCM up to 352.8 gapless ok

DSD up to x4 gapless ok

- using NAA (raspberry pi4 4GB/RoPieee XL)

— Alac/flac 16/44.1 transcoded to wave 16/44.1 by Minimserver 

hqplayerd upsampling to

PCM 176.4 and less gapless ok

PCM 352.8 gapless fails

DSD x1/x2/x4 gapless fails

- hqplayerd settings (with/without NAA)

PCM 1x/Nx poly-sinc-ext2

DSD 1x/Nx poly-sinc-ext2 Modulator ADSM7

 

 

Stefano

 

My audio system

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Thank you to everyone who chimed in on my pops/ticks issue last night with USB. Anticipating my Pi3 was a likely cause, I ordered a Pi4 to test out. Should be here tomorrow and I'll report back!

Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> Pi4 HPQ NAA

Denafrips Venus II DAC, Schiit Freya+ Preamp

SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp

Dyn Confidence C2 Platinum speakers, dedicated and treated room

Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage

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50 minutes ago, mikel said:

I have a question regarding convolution.

I use it for my different headphones. Occationally I can also use it to simulate speakers with headphones.

The different convolution files always come as stereo. When experimenting with different settings the following would be very useful:

  • Quick Switch between different Convolution Profiles (similar to Pipeline)
  • Accepting Convolution Stereo Files as option (similar to Roon also accepting stereo convolution files, most convolution files created by software is stereo by default)

 

Thanks, Michael

 

Just setup something like this example in Matrix pipeline dialog (you need to use mono WAVs):


obrázok.png

 

Then after testing and adapting gain level you can save this as preset under some reasonable name.
Then in HQPlayer Client you can switch between presets on the fly (during playback) to test differences.

I was testing and I am using more stereo to binaural (HRTF) solutions, maybe we could exchange our experiences. Maybe in some other thread.

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Hi, I built a new pc for HQP recently.

Cpu is an Intel i7-10700K (OC 5 ghz), 32 Gb ram, no GPU, macOS Catalina (Hackintosh) and Windows 10 Workstation on two different NVMe disks. I can use HQP 4.8.1 with both systems as I prefer.

Mobo is a Gigabyte Z490 Vision D with two lan ports: Intel 219 and Intel 225-V

My dac is a Rme Adi-2. I also use Roon for the library only, but running on a different iMac.

 

That computer should be able to play DSD256, ASDM7EC, xtr or ext2 and convolution, I suppose.

It does flawlessy, indeed, but via usb only.

If I use one of my Naa (Allo Usbridge Sig, Beaglebone Black, Raspberry Pi3 and 2014 i5 Mac Mini) I notice many random dropouts. Catalina or Windows, it doesn't matter. 

I tried direct connection server-naa via Ipv6, but it doesn't solve my issue.

Dropouts occur with both lan ports. Using ASDM7 (no EC), the same.

It can works well for 1 hour, then dropouts for 10 seconds or 10 minutes.

Also using DSD128, sometimes it happens.

I tried all the settings (buffer, filters, shapers...), but no success.

There are no other programs running. That pc is for HQP only, so far.

 

I use two unmanaged switches (Cisco SG100-D and Netgear GS108), both 802.3x compliant, and Asus RT-AC87U router.

I'm not a network expert, but it sounds like an overflow issue. Anyway, something due to the lan ports.

 

Any hint?

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

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Thanks that is very helpful.

I have a Focal Utopia and use the Convolution Files created by AutoEQ. Based on Jussis answer, I started to investigate HRTF. Impressive stuff. I might look into measuring my own HRTF or alternatively see if there is an online database.

Intuitively, I did the same already. I used 1 set of convolution files for the EQ-Correction. Then I started to look for room responses online to simulate room response. The results were not great for the second step so far. Too much reverb. 

Not that I start to understand the true capabilities here, I am really impressed.

@bogiand @Miska: thanks for your detailed explainations... This will surely bring the Headphone experience to a new level.

I might now look for a way to measure my own HRTF.

 

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On 11/26/2020 at 3:52 PM, Miska said:

 

It is under Matrix / Pipeline. There's an example in the manual, and I think I posted also one example earlier on this thread.

 

I've finally got some spare time to try this out however, I am only able to find a quick guide on the web page.
Could you share a link to the manual where I could find an example how to do let's say 60Hz -6db Q-7, please?
Also, it would be great if the Pipeline Setup would offer a plot of what is actually being done with the signal. Any plans on adding it as a feature to release 4.xx?

Vinnie Rossi LIO (AVC/Tubestage, AMP Module with built in HPF 100Hz 24dB/octave, DAC 2.0), Harbeth P3ESR, Rythmik F8

Win10 i7-7700 -> Roon -> HQPlayer DSD512- > LIO 100Hz HPF -> Harbeth P3ESR

                                                                                ->LIO  -> miniDSP <100Hz -> Rythmik F8  

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, mikel said:

Thanks that is very helpful.

I have a Focal Utopia and use the Convolution Files created by AutoEQ. Based on Jussis answer, I started to investigate HRTF. Impressive stuff. I might look into measuring my own HRTF or alternatively see if there is an online database.

Intuitively, I did the same already. I used 1 set of convolution files for the EQ-Correction. Then I started to look for room responses online to simulate room response. The results were not great for the second step so far. Too much reverb. 

Not that I start to understand the true capabilities here, I am really impressed.

@bogiand @Miska: thanks for your detailed explainations... This will surely bring the Headphone experience to a new level.

I might now look for a way to measure my own HRTF.

 

 

I prepared a guide, see here:

 

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16 hours ago, il Carletto said:

Hi, I built a new pc for HQP recently.

Cpu is an Intel i7-10700K (OC 5 ghz), 32 Gb ram, no GPU, macOS Catalina (Hackintosh) and Windows 10 Workstation on two different NVMe disks. I can use HQP 4.8.1 with both systems as I prefer.

Mobo is a Gigabyte Z490 Vision D with two lan ports: Intel 219 and Intel 225-V

My dac is a Rme Adi-2. I also use Roon for the library only, but running on a different iMac.

 

That computer should be able to play DSD256, ASDM7EC, xtr or ext2 and convolution, I suppose.

It does flawlessy, indeed, but via usb only.

If I use one of my Naa (Allo Usbridge Sig, Beaglebone Black, Raspberry Pi3 and 2014 i5 Mac Mini) I notice many random dropouts. Catalina or Windows, it doesn't matter. 

I tried direct connection server-naa via Ipv6, but it doesn't solve my issue.

Dropouts occur with both lan ports. Using ASDM7 (no EC), the same.

It can works well for 1 hour, then dropouts for 10 seconds or 10 minutes.

Also using DSD128, sometimes it happens.

I tried all the settings (buffer, filters, shapers...), but no success.

There are no other programs running. That pc is for HQP only, so far.

 

I use two unmanaged switches (Cisco SG100-D and Netgear GS108), both 802.3x compliant, and Asus RT-AC87U router.

I'm not a network expert, but it sounds like an overflow issue. Anyway, something due to the lan ports.

 

Any hint?

Thanks in advance

 

 

 

See above notes from Miska about Pi3 USB/LAN problems which are solved on Pi4

Ah, but they don't realise, it's right before their eyes, life is for livin', right now before you die.

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56 minutes ago, blue2 said:

See above notes from Miska about Pi3 USB/LAN problems which are solved on Pi4

As he uses a Mac mini too it seems the issue is not related to rpi3 but to NAA.

I’m facing some issues too:

using NAA, they are about gapless failure but they occurs with NAA (rpi4/RoPieee XL) and not w/o NAA (except a couple of cases, see my post

Another issue is with another NAA (SoTM sMS 200 Neo): sometimes it works flawlessly but it can happen (most of the times) that clicks, pops and dropouts occur .... randomly, reboot and other attempts are useless , I must give up and try the day after and it works for a while, then the issue occurs again.

@Miska... what do you suggest about this new (for me) issue? ... this trial is really an obstacle course ...

++ edit ++ forgot to mention that in the SoTM case a DoP only dac is connected therefore the NAA output in hqplayerd is configured as DoP.

This could be a hint as connecting a DSD native capable dac to the SoTM do not have clicks, pops and dropouts issues.

 

Stefano

 

My audio system

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