HQ Player

[Miska]

15 minutes ago, bogi said:

Yes, I checked that the convolution thing was not enabled. I updated my previous post with correct zip file.

 

I changed the pipeline gains to -3 dB and been now jumping around the tracks of couple of albums without limits. It is not so clear from the graphs what is maximum sum gains of the two responses. Maybe I'll split the frequency and phase response to separate plots in future version.

 

 

[bogi]

I am curious ... for test I installed also 4.7.2 and faced with the same issue, then when I returned to 4.5.1, the issue disappeared.

I will let you know in few minutes.

[bibo01]

Hi @Miska, do you have Merging Hapi? What filter/modulator for best results do you suggest for it? 

[Miska]

30 minutes ago, bibo01 said:

Hi @Miska, do you have Merging Hapi? What filter/modulator for best results do you suggest for it? 

 

Yes, I have one around. At DSD256 you can choose between ASDM5EC and ASDM7EC. Objectively lowest out of band noise is with ASDM5EC, but I've been running ASDM7EC which gives theoretically best audio band.

 

Filter is up to your choice. I personally have three which I switch between. poly-sinc-ext2 as primary, and poly-sinc-short-mp and sinc-S as alternatives. If some recording sounds too harsh or too much "on your face" and/or with sibilance, poly-sinc-short-mp is good fix. If poly-sinc-ext2 sounds too smooth/soft, then sinc-S is good alternative. For example with hires version of Daft Punk Random Access Memories (88.2/24) I prefer sinc-S. With older prog-rock (Pink Floyd etc) I prefer poly-sinc-short-mp. But poly-sinc-ext2 is pretty generic all-rounder which works very well on all material.

 

[bogi]

I went back to 3.8.0.  and set the pipeline WAVs also to -3dB. Main volume is on -12 dB and gets red. No matter what content I play.

I got an idea that the trouble could be caused by some implementation change in processing of configuration files and reusing old configuration, which I created years ago yet for v3.
I renamed settings.xml in %LOCALAPPDATA%\HQPlayer, restarted, newly configured all from scratch and now it is working!

[firedog]

There are oversampling filters that when set,  only convert 48K PCM to 48K based DSD rates and not multiples of 2.8M.

Which ones are they?

[Miska]

8 hours ago, firedog said:

There are oversampling filters that when set,  only convert 48K PCM to 48K based DSD rates and not multiples of 2.8M.

Which ones are they?

 

All available filters can do that if you enable 48k DSD and set "Adaptive output rate" to checked.

 

But only limited set of filters can convert 48k PCM rates to 44.1k based DSD rates (multiples of 2.8M). Possible conversion ratios for each filter are listed in Desktop manual and in Embedded help page.

 

[Traktorist3d]

Hello. I'm new here, please do not judge if such questions have already been. I have a few questions.
Dear Miska:
1.With what settings in rephase is it most optimal to build a filter for HQP?

Do I need to consider the FFT length and the number of tapes? As I understand it, tapes should be taken into account when we cut low frequencies.

 

 

2. Is it better to set temporary time delays through tools -chanel ballance? Or are there other ways?

3. I am using VB -audio cable for audio streaming. Is it possible to count on the maximum sound quality in this mode? Or transformations affecting the sound are inevitable?
I don’t understand why I have 16-bit input and output in VB - Audio, but for some reason the output is always 24 bits, and in HQP it is always 32-bit input. I understand that if dithering is applied at 16-24-32? Will this theoretically affect the sound quality? I don't seem to hear the difference, but for perfectionism I would like to know that the signal reaches HQP without changes.

It is clear that if the input to VB-audio 16 and output 24, this is not a question for you, but for the VB developer. Is it normal that HQP always has 32-bit input?

4. I would very much like to make it so that when the signal is fed to the input device, it automatically reproduces it. As in the case when with ROON we apply for HQP.

In general, the sound quality from HQP is very pleasing. The only thing for channel division of frequencies in the car, I would like to input from other players. For example when watching YOUTUBE, etc. With Virtual Cable, this works fine, but is sorely lacking in automatic playback when fed to an HQP input device.

 

 

[SwissBear]

10 hours ago, Traktorist3d said:

Hello. I'm new here, please do not judge if such questions have already been. I have a few questions.
Dear Miska:
1.With what settings in rephase is it most optimal to build a filter for HQP?

Do I need to consider the FFT length and the number of tapes? As I understand it, tapes should be taken into account when we cut low frequencies.

 

 

2. Is it better to set temporary time delays through tools -chanel ballance? Or are there other ways?

3. I am using VB -audio cable for audio streaming. Is it possible to count on the maximum sound quality in this mode? Or transformations affecting the sound are inevitable?
I don’t understand why I have 16-bit input and output in VB - Audio, but for some reason the output is always 24 bits, and in HQP it is always 32-bit input. I understand that if dithering is applied at 16-24-32? Will this theoretically affect the sound quality? I don't seem to hear the difference, but for perfectionism I would like to know that the signal reaches HQP without changes.

It is clear that if the input to VB-audio 16 and output 24, this is not a question for you, but for the VB developer. Is it normal that HQP always has 32-bit input?

4. I would very much like to make it so that when the signal is fed to the input device, it automatically reproduces it. As in the case when with ROON we apply for HQP.

In general, the sound quality from HQP is very pleasing. The only thing for channel division of frequencies in the car, I would like to input from other players. For example when watching YOUTUBE, etc. With Virtual Cable, this works fine, but is sorely lacking in automatic playback when fed to an HQP input device.

 

 

 

What is nice with rePhase is that you see how many taps you need in the interface.

For instance, if you want to apply a reject low filter at 20 Hz and you do not have enough taps in your impulse, you will see the blue line which shows what you expect and the red line which shows what you get.

 

If you increase the number of taps, you can see that both curves overlap.

 

 

Hope this helps :)

[Miska]

18 hours ago, Traktorist3d said:

1.With what settings in rephase is it most optimal to build a filter for HQP?

 

I see this answered already to some extent...

 

18 hours ago, Traktorist3d said:

2. Is it better to set temporary time delays through tools -chanel ballance? Or are there other ways?

 

Net result is the same whether delays are adjusted in convolution filters or the channel setup.

 

For stereo, usually the channel delay adjustment is not necessary because listening setup is fairly symmetric. For multichannel it matters a lot because you have also rear (and maybe side) channels. If all distances are equal, the adjustment is not needed (zero delta).

 

19 hours ago, Traktorist3d said:

3. I am using VB -audio cable for audio streaming. Is it possible to count on the maximum sound quality in this mode? Or transformations affecting the sound are inevitable?
I don’t understand why I have 16-bit input and output in VB - Audio, but for some reason the output is always 24 bits, and in HQP it is always 32-bit input. I understand that if dithering is applied at 16-24-32? Will this theoretically affect the sound quality?

 

If you go towards higher word lengths, it is not a problem. You pretty much get zero-padding. If it would be going towards lower word lengths you'd have a problem.

 

19 hours ago, Traktorist3d said:

4. I would very much like to make it so that when the signal is fed to the input device, it automatically reproduces it. As in the case when with ROON we apply for HQP.

In general, the sound quality from HQP is very pleasing. The only thing for channel division of frequencies in the car, I would like to input from other players. For example when watching YOUTUBE, etc. With Virtual Cable, this works fine, but is sorely lacking in automatic playback when fed to an HQP input device.

 

This would be more a place for HQPlayer Embedded appliance / streamer. Where HQPlayer would be part of a DAC/streamer.

 

[mirekti]

I am not sure this feature is possible at all, bit wodered if HQPlayer could add a feature to become an audio device within Windows? That way all audio could be pushed through it e.g. Youtube, IHeart radio etc.

The reason I’m asking is that HQPlayer can do some curve shaping, and I’d like to have it applied for all media.

[Miska]

50 minutes ago, mirekti said:

I am not sure this feature is possible at all, bit wodered if HQPlayer could add a feature to become an audio device within Windows? That way all audio could be pushed through it e.g. Youtube, IHeart radio etc.

The reason I’m asking is that HQPlayer can do some curve shaping, and I’d like to have it applied for all media.

 

Yes, best way to do it is to use HQPlayer Embedded and then feed it from a Windows computer using S/PDIF, AES/EBU or USB.

 

By using something like ADI-2 Pro as input device it also works nicely for analog sources as well.

 

Note however, that it is not useful together with video.

 

[mirekti]

26 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, best way to do it is to use HQPlayer Embedded and then feed it from a Windows computer using S/PDIF, AES/EBU or USB.

 

By using something like ADI-2 Pro as input device it also works nicely for analog sources as well.

 

Note however, that it is not useful together with video.

 

Ah, it seems I have bought the wrong version, this runs on Linux only, but also requires an aditional device.

Need to rethink it all now. :)

Any way to do it on a single device by running Linux as a virtual machine?

 

[mirekti]

Oh, one more question. Any plans on releasing HQPlayer on container based platforms?

[SwissBear]

For those of you who are interested in the performance of the Mac Mini M1 running HPLayer under Rosetta emulator: the limit I found is:

- DSD 64 to DSD 128 with ASDM5SEC or ASDM7EC, regardless of convolution

- PCM to DSD 256 with ASDM5SEC or ASDM7EC, regardless of convolution

Processor load is close to 60% including system, and memory pressure is reasonable

 

 

So there is hope to have a reasonable configuration for a stereo system when Miska has optimized the code for the new platform...

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

3 hours ago, SwissBear said:

For those of you who are interested in the performance of the Mac Mini M1 running HPLayer under Rosetta emulator: the limit I found is:

- DSD 64 to DSD 128 with ASDM5SEC or ASDM7EC, regardless of convolution

- PCM to DSD 256 with ASDM5SEC or ASDM7EC, regardless of convolution

Processor load is close to 60% including system, and memory pressure is reasonable

 

 

So there is hope to have a reasonable configuration for a stereo system when Miska has optimized the code for the new platform...

@SwissBear, thank you for the update for this important new development.  Curious how the fan responded under the condition of DSD256.  Also, what happened you tried to do DSD64 to DSD 256?  

[SwissBear]

20 minutes ago, Mahler and Bach on Computer said:

@SwissBear, thank you for the update for this important new development.  Curious how the fan responded under the condition of DSD256.  Also, what happened you tried to do DSD64 to DSD 256?  

The fan kept very quiet anytime :-)

What happened when trying DSD 64 to DSD 256 was like a drop of network frames from time to time (blanks in the music). It might not be the CPU, but could be the network adapter which was overloaded, busy getting the music files from the NAS and sending the upsampled file to the NAA.

For now, the upsampling to DSD 128 seems to work for all music files, including PCM, DSD 64 and DSD 128. Even with ASDM5EC and ASDM7EC, which I could never make happen even with my very old but very powerful MacPro with Xeon processors...

So I'm more than happy for the time being, and very optimistic on the possibilities of this new machine...

[Miska]

14 hours ago, mirekti said:

Any way to do it on a single device by running Linux as a virtual machine?

 

Not as far as I know, since I don't think any virtual machines emulate device side USB.

 

6 hours ago, mirekti said:

Oh, one more question. Any plans on releasing HQPlayer on container based platforms?

 

No, because HQPlayer wants to be as close to the hardware as possible, which is exact opposite of containers.

 

[Sevenfeet]

12 hours ago, SwissBear said:

For those of you who are interested in the performance of the Mac Mini M1 running HPLayer under Rosetta emulator: the limit I found is:

- DSD 64 to DSD 128 with ASDM5SEC or ASDM7EC, regardless of convolution

- PCM to DSD 256 with ASDM5SEC or ASDM7EC, regardless of convolution

Processor load is close to 60% including system, and memory pressure is reasonable

 

 

So there is hope to have a reasonable configuration for a stereo system when Miska has optimized the code for the new platform...

 

Interesting. I also run HQPlayer (and Roon) on an ancient Mac Pro server (2008, 8 core). I want to replace it with the new M1 Mac Mini but I was curious as to what the real world performance was for something as CPU demanding as HQPlayer. Considering this is under Rosetta 2, this isn't bad. It will be interesting to see what happens when there is an eventual native ARM version, and maybe a future Mac Mini with a stronger processor rather than the M1s 4 performance and 4 efficiency cores. Apple's architecture only gets better from here and a non-battery Mac really could use all performance and no efficiency cores (or at least fewer).  Also, not sure if a 16 GB of RAM machine makes any difference here but it might. I'd love to see a Mac Mini that could achieve DSD256 & DSD 512 upscaling without problems.

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

9 hours ago, SwissBear said:

The fan kept very quiet anytime :-)

What happened when trying DSD 64 to DSD 256 was like a drop of network frames from time to time (blanks in the music). It might not be the CPU, but could be the network adapter which was overloaded, busy getting the music files from the NAS and sending the upsampled file to the NAA.

For now, the upsampling to DSD 128 seems to work for all music files, including PCM, DSD 64 and DSD 128. Even with ASDM5EC and ASDM7EC, which I could never make happen even with my very old but very powerful MacPro with Xeon processors...

So I'm more than happy for the time being, and very optimistic on the possibilities of this new machine...

I am thinking to buy Mac Mini M1 to replace my 7-year-old MacBook Pro.  Your information/experience is very helpful.  It is good to hear that fan keeps quiet all the time.  Given that there was no issue under the PCM-DSD256 scenario, it makes sense that you hypothesized that issue with DSD64 to DSD256 likely related with NAS file transfer.  Given I have been using NAS myself, I understand it well.  One way to get around this problem is to use some of those apps developed by @Geoffrey Armstrong, which generate files locally at the computer which running HQPlayer4Desktop.  This way HQP4D plays a locally freshly generated files, be it FLAC or DSD64, likely on SSD.  Personally I think it helps SQ as well without measurements, because power supply to NAS likely is not relevant any more for SQ.  

[SwissBear]

3 hours ago, Mahler and Bach on Computer said:

I am thinking to buy Mac Mini M1 to replace my 7-year-old MacBook Pro.  Your information/experience is very helpful.  It is good to hear that fan keeps quiet all the time.  Given that there was no issue under the PCM-DSD256 scenario, it makes sense that you hypothesized that issue with DSD64 to DSD256 likely related with NAS file transfer.  Given I have been using NAS myself, I understand it well.  One way to get around this problem is to use some of those apps developed by @Geoffrey Armstrong, which generate files locally at the computer which running HQPlayer4Desktop.  This way HQP4D plays a locally freshly generated files, be it FLAC or DSD64, likely on SSD.  Personally I think it helps SQ as well without measurements, because power supply to NAS likely is not relevant any more for SQ.  

Thanks for the tip. Drawing conclusions from my tests, in the absence of any obvious bottleneck, seems difficult for me.

I will wait for Miska to release a native version of his software, compiled, and possibly optimized, for the new platform.

BTW, please do not take my tests at face value and make your own evaluation. In particular, it seems that upsampling to DSD 128 is pretty reliable and that upsampling to DSD 256 is pretty unreliable, whatever the original file format.

Just my 2C :-)

[AnotherSpin]

4 hours ago, Mahler and Bach on Computer said:

I am thinking to buy Mac Mini M1 to replace my 7-year-old MacBook Pro.  Your information/experience is very helpful.  It is good to hear that fan keeps quiet all the time.  Given that there was no issue under the PCM-DSD256 scenario, it makes sense that you hypothesized that issue with DSD64 to DSD256 likely related with NAS file transfer.  Given I have been using NAS myself, I understand it well.  One way to get around this problem is to use some of those apps developed by @Geoffrey Armstrong, which generate files locally at the computer which running HQPlayer4Desktop.  This way HQP4D plays a locally freshly generated files, be it FLAC or DSD64, likely on SSD.  Personally I think it helps SQ as well without measurements, because power supply to NAS likely is not relevant any more for SQ.  

 

You may try to use virtual RAM disc. I copy both HQPlayer desktop and album/s to play to virtual RAM disc and I like the sound better this way.

[jamesg11]

12 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

You may try to use virtual RAM disc. I copy both HQPlayer desktop and album/s to play to virtual RAM disc and I like the sound better this way.

Yes, I used to use this, a fair while back - remind me where I can get this again please! (MacOS.)

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

17 hours ago, SwissBear said:

Thanks for the tip. Drawing conclusions from my tests, in the absence of any obvious bottleneck, seems difficult for me.

I will wait for Miska to release a native version of his software, compiled, and possibly optimized, for the new platform.

BTW, please do not take my tests at face value and make your own evaluation. In particular, it seems that upsampling to DSD 128 is pretty reliable and that upsampling to DSD 256 is pretty unreliable, whatever the original file format.

Just my 2C :-)

Of course.  The initial test certainly very promising from your observations.  

[bibo01]

@MiskaFollowing the recent talks here on the new mac chip, is it in your plans to port to M1? Eventually, how soon?