HQ Player

[Miska]

1 hour ago, giordy60 said:

on the server side (where there is hqp) you need a sound card with a usb type b?
it's correct ?

 

Yes, there's no such sound card (unless someone makes one). But there are some embedded boards that have device side USB controller. For example the UPBoard. It should work theoretically on RasPi4 hardware as well, but the current HQPlayer OS / NAA OS kernel is lacking on that front (too old).

 

[giordy60]

thanks for the answer Jussi ....
I suppose it is not your plan to develop / implement in HQP the possibility of streaming with qobuz-tidal ......

[Mahler and Bach on Computer]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

No, will do it once I get my Mac Mini with M1. It has been on order for quite some time and Apple's original delivery estimate is by Dec 18th.

 

Big Sur on Intel Macs should be OK. At least I have not heard of problems.

 

I tried HQPlayer4Desktop (4.70) on my not so powerful MacBook Air.  It works fine with not so demanding settings of DSD128.  I noticed that under Big Sur, most of the apps loaded much faster.

[Luca72c]

21 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Doing something for single platform that is of limited usefulness is not what I look to do for multi-platform application. It is not best way to spend weeks or months of work, if it benefits only few in some relatively rare cases.

In addition, doing any drivers for macOS is so much asking for trouble, very likely to break all the time when Apple releases new OS versions. There are plenty of examples of this. Maintenance nightmare.

For Linux I could do anything I want, but so far nobody has even asked for such on Linux. And OTOH, there you have other ways, like HQPlayer Embedded as well.

At the moment, using Roon as source for Tidal and Qobuz works on all platforms without extra hassle. Using third party loopback drivers may work on Windows and macOS, but needs manual intervention when rate changes. Which is not an issue for example with Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple Music or such because it is always 44.1k. In addition, with HQPlayer Embedded using UPnP, Qobuz and Tidal works from mConnect Player and Bubble UPnP mobile device apps and from Audirvana.

 

 

I'm not surprised nobody asked source input adjustments on Linux, as other ways are available there (as you say) and Embedded is one of those.

But unfortunately HQPlayer Embedded is only available for Linux, so i can't see your principle of not doing something for single platform (and benefit only few) applied here. Surely i can understand that programming can be much more of an hassle on closed proprietary OSes like Windows or Mac than on open source OSes like Linux, but that doesn't mean that anything just is not worth being done on Windows and Mac, as they offer large communities.

Anyway, i forgot to mention Jriver, that AFAIK works well as output virtual (WDM?) device for Tidal and Spotify apps on Windows and still permitting auto frequency switching. So auto frequency switching is possible in some way even using WDM drivers instead of ASIO? I think it is, otherwise how could an audio device correctly shift frequency when playing audio via WDM driver?

Or you could simply (but not necessarily easily, i guess) implement UPnP/DLNA input on HQPlayer Desktop as you did in Embedded (and as is actually implemented in Jriver), and that should be enough to allow source input working 100% on all platforms, not only on Linux (remember your "not doing something for single platform" principle?)...

Without one of these adjustments, HQPlayer input capabilities are a serious miss for many (Windows and Mac) users.

[ccc888]

14 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I don't think having to use web browser to access configuration interface on the same machine makes experience better. And many people use HQPlayer with drag-and-drop, and for that use case there's the basic interface on the server itself.

 

 

You have the minimize-button for that purpose...

 

 

Yes it would. And it would be also significant effort. If we guesstimate it would take three man-months to do, the virtual development cost would be around 60500€.

 

I consider this time better spent on some other kind of features.

Fare enough. Thanks.

 

Hi Miska, I would like to learn more about audio filters and modulators design. Is there any books you would recommend me to read?

 

Also do you think you would make the HQPlayer go opensource someday, so that maybe other people could help you on the development?

[luisma]

trying to look at the parametric equalizer but I can't open all the tabs because I'm not licensed, any screenshots of the parametric equalizer?

[bogi]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

Yes, there's no such sound card (unless someone makes one). But there are some embedded boards that have device side USB controller.

 

What happens when you connect for example your ADI-2 PRO having also USB digital input ?

[img][]

 

This picture shows ADI-2 as digital to digital converter. ADI-2 is connected to computer USB type A port. I suppose HQPlayer can see ADI-2 digital input over USB.

 

Could you please explain the difference between these 2 cases (computer with device side USB B port vs D/D or D/A device connected traditionally through USB type A ?
I think the answer is that computer simply sees USB device in both cases regardless on if the device USB type B port is local or remote. Because "remote" on USB cable is still connected into local USB bus, so it only looks as remote but is handled as local (controlled by computer OS driver). Is my view correct?

[ambre]

9 hours ago, ambre said:

Correct ....but once SET  to 44.1 as my part of my normal subscription = CD Quality it works very nice and adding this config to settings by script function it as piece of cake.🤠

 

 

How to install Loopback software by Roque Amoeba on a APPLE IMac or MINI for use for QOBUZ etc....

 

Try first (buy later ) the Loopback software. Read carefully the " easy"  instructions. 

 

1) Assign QOBUZ  by means of Pass-Through in your Mac mini.

Ps. The microphone has to be assigned to Loopback first.  Please see picture 1.

 

2) Choose in HQP4 the audio frequency you have subscribed Qobuz  in my case CD quality is 44.1. See picture 2

 

3) Doubleclick within HQP4 the desired frequency that equals subscription or if needed higher frequency like 192 kHz.   Please notice if you are allowed to use the High Res frequency = more expansive Qubuz subscription be careful to check per album the frequency as download and adjust it manually  within HQP4.

 

Ps. My Qobuz standard is 44.1 and HQP4 does the job to upsample every album to DSD 256. I don't need the High Res downloads up 44.1 kHz because HQP is converting. Please see picture 3.

 

4) Choose the album/ song within QOBUZ and 😊. See picture 4.

 

Very best regards.

 

 

[AnotherSpin]

1 hour ago, ambre said:

 

 

How to install Loopback software by Roque Amoeba on a APPLE IMac or MINI for use for QOBUZ etc....

 

[...]

 

 

 

Brilliant!! I downloaded Rogue Amoeba Loopback, followed all instructions above, and now listening Qobuz through HQPlayer Desktop + NAA. Loopback Audio should be selected in Qobuz' Audio output. Also, streaming quality should be set to CD- 16 bit/ 44,1 kHz. Thank you!

[The Computer Audiophile]

I love Rogue Amoeba software and own a few apps. However, I've tested them and fund them not to be bit perfect. I worked with RA support on it as well and nobody could figure out what was going on. There was a drift or added/missing sample once in a while that threw everything off. 

[fas42]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I love Rogue Amoeba software and own a few apps. However, I've tested them and fund them not to be bit perfect. I worked with RA support on it as well and nobody could figure out what was going on. There was a drift or added/missing sample once in a while that threw everything off. 

 

I like it when people actually pay others to create imperfect, buggy software ... 😝

[Miska]

6 hours ago, bogi said:

What happens when you connect for example your ADI-2 PRO having also USB digital input ?

[img][]

 

This picture shows ADI-2 as digital to digital converter. ADI-2 is connected to computer USB type A port. I suppose HQPlayer can see ADI-2 digital input over USB.

 

Yes, that's the case. And ADI-2 firmware can report detected input rates through properties I've added to the Linux driver. So HQPlayer can detect which sampling rate ADI-2 is receiving on it's digital inputs and switch the rates accordingly.

 

Difference between ADI-2 DAC and ADI-2 Pro is that Pro has analog ADC and AES/EBU inputs. Other than price, I see it a bit pointless to buy DAC for input device. While the Pro has one additional digital input, and the analog input can be used for analog sources like vinyl for performing convolution. So you get same DSP features also for analog sources.

 

6 hours ago, bogi said:

Could you please explain the difference between these 2 cases (computer with device side USB B port vs D/D or D/A device connected traditionally through USB type A ?

 

The difference is how it works. With the device connection through type-A, like above ADI-2 case, you need additional devices between the source device and the HQPlayer device. Because you essentially go from type-A to type-A and need some adaptation between. Unless your source has S/PDIF output, like for example in my living room setup I have Bluesound Node 2i connected through S/PDIF.

 

With the computer side type-B port, you only need USB cable between the two devices (computers), because HQPlayer looks like a USB DAC to the other end. So you have direct type-A to type-B connection.

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I love Rogue Amoeba software and own a few apps. However, I've tested them and fund them not to be bit perfect. I worked with RA support on it as well and nobody could figure out what was going on. There was a drift or added/missing sample once in a while that threw everything off. 

 

I think this could be related to how CoreAudio prefers to do clocking and that in such case you would have software driven sample clock. Since you don't really have any real hardware audio clock in such case.

 

[Miska]

10 hours ago, giordy60 said:

I suppose it is not your plan to develop / implement in HQP the possibility of streaming with qobuz-tidal ......

 

I can only say it doesn't seem to be in Tidal's plans. Doesn't matter if I'd plan or not, they don't want HQPlayer support.

 

[Miska]

9 hours ago, Luca72c said:

Anyway, i forgot to mention Jriver, that AFAIK works well as output virtual (WDM?) device for Tidal and Spotify apps on Windows and still permitting auto frequency switching. So auto frequency switching is possible in some way even using WDM drivers instead of ASIO? I think it is, otherwise how could an audio device correctly shift frequency when playing audio via WDM driver?

 

You are playing audio to WDM output device. But I'm pretty sure JRiver is not getting it's input from WDM input device, but instead by other means bypassing the WDM completely. This is not something that happens with loopback drivers that have WDM on both sides.

 

But does JRiver support that same feature also on macOS and Linux?

 

9 hours ago, Luca72c said:

Or you could simply (but not necessarily easily, i guess) implement UPnP/DLNA input on HQPlayer Desktop as you did in Embedded

 

At some point, HQPlayer Embedded may work on WSL as Microsoft develops it further. It could already work, I just haven't got time to properly test it yet. The HQPlayer control protocol side things seem to work, so for example Roon could work. It is the UPnP stack that craps out, possibly because both the Windows side and the WSL side share same IP address and Windows has already services on the same ports UPnP stack would like to use.

 

9 hours ago, Luca72c said:

not only on Linux (remember your "not doing something for single platform" principle?)

 

HQPlayer Embedded is single platform product by definition, because it is made for streamer firmware. And practically nobody makes streamers with macOS or Windows. They are practically all Linux based.

 

While HQPlayer Desktop is multi-platform product that works on three different platforms. All main features should work on all three platforms.

 

[Miska]

9 hours ago, luisma said:

trying to look at the parametric equalizer but I can't open all the tabs because I'm not licensed, any screenshots of the parametric equalizer?

 

It is part of the matrix pipeline setup, see the help page there about the "Process" column.

 

[AnotherSpin]

8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I love Rogue Amoeba software and own a few apps. However, I've tested them and fund them not to be bit perfect. I worked with RA support on it as well and nobody could figure out what was going on. There was a drift or added/missing sample once in a while that threw everything off. 

 

Was it with their Loopback app? 

[ambre]

10 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I love Rogue Amoeba software and own a few apps. However, I've tested them and fund them not to be bit perfect. I worked with RA support on it as well and nobody could figure out what was going on. There was a drift or added/missing sample once in a while that threw everything off. 

The loopback only redirect output and doesn’t add something instead of other DSP software the same company. Or am I mistaken?

[The Computer Audiophile]

55 minutes ago, ambre said:

The loopback only redirect output and doesn’t add something instead of other DSP software the same company. Or am I mistaken?

In my experience, you’re mistaken due to what Miska described. 

[AnotherSpin]

Loopback update: VB-Cable does the same - Qobuz streaming through HQPD + NAA. 

[ambre]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

In my experience, you’re mistaken due to what Miska described. 

 

Hello Chris,

 

Miska wrote  following" I think this could be related to how APPLE CoreAudio prefers to do clocking and that in such case you would have software driven sample clock. Since you don't really have any real hardware audio clock in such case.

 

 I am doing this for months now the upsampling of QoBuz albums to HQP4 as described in an earlier post. Never noticed a hiccup or any kind of distortion compared with direct playing  from HQP- library from Mac mini SSD or from elsewhere. Or what you described "  There was a drift or added/missing sample once in a while that threw everything off. 

 

So far as I understood HQPlayer doesn't uses any kind of real hardware clock too? It may bypasses the CoreAudio of an Apple device. But suppose that HQP4 uses also the software driven clock on an iMac etc?

Be really curious how it works? Or do we need anreal hardware resp. masterclock to optimize the performance?

Maybe Miska/Jussy  can clarify from HQP4- perspective.

 

Remains the question how to use properly the input resp. real audio function with HQP4 for Apple and other OS?

Ps.  With my old Mac Mini it was easy. This model had an optical input. I used an Apple TV or Airport to generate an input sign to easily was recognized HQP4. But my Mac mini 2020 with I7 (6-Core) doesn't have this king of inputs anymore. Tried RA Loopback and till now very satisfied. Little bit costly => $120 for Europe. 

 

Best regards, Andreas

 

 

[giordy60]

3 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

Loopback update: VB-Cable does the same - Qobuz streaming through HQPD + NAA. 

have you installed everything on one machine? ....
hqp desktop + qobuz + VB cable?

[The Computer Audiophile]

15 minutes ago, ambre said:

 

Hello Chris,

 

Miska wrote  following" I think this could be related to how APPLE CoreAudio prefers to do clocking and that in such case you would have software driven sample clock. Since you don't really have any real hardware audio clock in such case.

 

 I am doing this for months now the upsampling of QoBuz albums to HQP4 as described in an earlier post. Never noticed a hiccup or any kind of distortion compared with direct playing  from HQP- library from Mac mini SSD or from elsewhere. Or what you described "  There was a drift or added/missing sample once in a while that threw everything off. 

 

So far as I understood HQPlayer doesn't uses any kind of real hardware clock too? It may bypasses the CoreAudio of an Apple device. But suppose that HQP4 uses also the software driven clock on an iMac etc?

Be really curious how it works? Or do we need anreal hardware resp. masterclock to optimize the performance?

Maybe Miska/Jussy  can clarify from HQP4- perspective.

 

Remains the question how to use properly the input resp. real audio function with HQP4 for Apple and other OS?

Ps.  With my old Mac Mini it was easy. This model had an optical input. I used an Apple TV or Airport to generate an input sign to easily was recognized HQP4. But my Mac mini 2020 with I7 (6-Core) doesn't have this king of inputs anymore. Tried RA Loopback and till now very satisfied. Little bit costly => $120 for Europe. 

 

Best regards, Andreas

 

 

 

The issues I found with RA apps are such that you wouldn't hear anything out of the ordinary. It's a tiny drift that not even the developers could fix. Who knows, by now maybe it's fixed. I haven't tested it in several years. 

[AnotherSpin]

15 minutes ago, giordy60 said:

have you installed everything on one machine? ....
hqp desktop + qobuz + VB cable?

 

Yes, HQPlayer Desktop, Qobuz app and VB Cable on the same mac mini connected through ethernet to NAA endpoint. Rogue Amoeba Loopback also works in this setup, 20 min trial time.

[ambre]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

The issues I found with RA apps are such that you wouldn't hear anything out of the ordinary. It's a tiny drift that not even the developers could fix. Who knows, by now maybe it's fixed. I haven't tested it in several years. 

Hi Chris, RA Loopback2 is regulary updated. Also yesterday=> due to the new M1 chip of Apple.

 

I can recommend wholeheartedly this app. Ps. Before Loopback RA used Soundflower may be this was different. May be you can give it a new try. Free limited download available for a fresh new equation!

 

Regards, Andreas