HQ Player

[dminches]

1 hour ago, k6davis said:

 

The Windows 10 driver should work. It did for me with an Nvidia GTX card.

 

That is good to know.  Sometimes a driver install won't work if the inf file requires the OS to exactly match the file.

 

 

[Quadman]

@Miska I am at a friends house and I was trying to update his HQP from 3.16 to the last 3.25.4 and he had the old license key format.  I tried the old converter site but got an error message is it still possible to convert old license keys the the newer HTML format?  he wants to her the last 3.xx before he decides to upgrade.  Thanks

 

 

 

[Miska]

8 hours ago, Quadman said:

@Miska I am at a friends house and I was trying to update his HQP from 3.16 to the last 3.25.4 and he had the old license key format.  I tried the old converter site but got an error message is it still possible to convert old license keys the the newer HTML format?  he wants to her the last 3.xx before he decides to upgrade.  Thanks

 

He just needs to send me email to get the key updated...

[adamthebrave]

I have the following issue: 

 

2 PC's both with Win Server 2016, HQP3 and NAA, direct connection between the two. 

 

ControlPC with HQP3, AudioPC with NAA. CPC has 2 NIC's, one for the router and one for the APC. If both cables are plugged in,  the HPQ can't find the NAA. If I unplug the router's cable it finds prompt the APC with the NAA. After the succelfully pairing I can plug in back the router's cable, everything works find until the next reboot, where I have to do this procedure again.

 

Every NIC has its own static IP address. The direct connection has an separated subnet (192.169.0.X) than the home network (192.168.1.X) 

 

Is there a better easier way? 

[Miska]

8 minutes ago, adamthebrave said:

Is there a better easier way? 

 

Yes, don't use two NICs and direct connection! There's no benefit, only problems as you described. Connect everything to a good switch instead.

 

Router should be connected to the switch through a single cable too.

 

[adamthebrave]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, don't use two NICs and direct connection! There's no benefit, only problems as you described. Connect everything to a good switch instead.

 

Can you reccomend me a good GB switch?

[maya]

Hi Jussi,

Tried Debian Buster HQPlayer4Desktop 4.1.1-10 can play DSD128 ex2-7EC but only the right channel having sound .

But having sound at both channels while playing PCM.

 

Same settings playing DSD 128 both channels having sound with previous version of HQP4Desktop 4.1.0

 

Attached is the screenshot of settings and log file of 4.1.1 FYI

 

Thanks,

 

 

HQPlayer4Desktop.log

[dminches]

On 9/11/2019 at 12:11 PM, k6davis said:

 

The Windows 10 driver should work. It did for me with an Nvidia GTX card.

 

Are you using CUDA off-load now?

 

[Quadman]

He just needs to send me email to get the key updated...

 

@Miska  Sent info to your contact listed email,  this mourning. hoping to listen tonight

[Miska]

4 hours ago, maya said:

Tried Debian Buster HQPlayer4Desktop 4.1.1-10 can play DSD128 ex2-7EC but only the right channel having sound .

But having sound at both channels while playing PCM.

 

Same settings playing DSD 128 both channels having sound with previous version of HQP4Desktop 4.1.0

 

OK, the Ubuntu package is then maybe having some problems on Buster. Desktop has never been intended to work on Debian, so YMMV. Only Embedded is supported on Debian.

 

I see that you have 5 ms set as buffer time for NAA. I would recommend keeping it at "Default" for NAA. 5 ms is certainly asking for trouble...

 

[maya]

8 hours ago, Miska said:

 

OK, the Ubuntu package is then maybe having some problems on Buster. Desktop has never been intended to work on Debian, so YMMV. Only Embedded is supported on Debian.

 

I see that you have 5 ms set as buffer time for NAA. I would recommend keeping it at "Default" for NAA. 5 ms is certainly asking for trouble...

 

Thanks !

I will try to set as default

[maya]

12 hours ago, Miska said:

 

OK, the Ubuntu package is then maybe having some problems on Buster. Desktop has never been intended to work on Debian, so YMMV. Only Embedded is supported on Debian.

 

I see that you have 5 ms set as buffer time for NAA. I would recommend keeping it at "Default" for NAA. 5 ms is certainly asking for trouble...

 

Tried set to 20 ms no luck,  still having no sound at the right channel, but no problem while playing PCM.

A group of friends of mine are using my Debian OS loaded with several optimized kernels which I compiled and the whole OS can be loaded into RAM on booting. This made a huge difference in SQ  compared with regular boot !

Ram booting is not feasible with Ubuntu 

So when you have time  could you take a look if this can be solved in Debian we do hope HQP4Desktop 4.1.1 which has amazing regulator 7EC etc can be used in Debian 10 or 9 !

Many thanks,

 

[Miska]

8 hours ago, maya said:

Tried set to 20 ms no luck,  still having no sound at the right channel, but no problem while playing PCM.

A group of friends of mine are using my Debian OS loaded with several optimized kernels which I compiled and the whole OS can be loaded into RAM on booting. This made a huge difference in SQ  compared with regular boot !

Ram booting is not feasible with Ubuntu 

So when you have time  could you take a look if this can be solved in Debian we do hope HQP4Desktop 4.1.1 which has amazing regulator 7EC etc can be used in Debian 10 or 9 !

 

100 ms is good starting point.

 

I just cannot support various custom OS configurations. You can boot to standard Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and see if you can reproduce the problem. If you can, then we need to find way for me to reproduce the problem there. If you cannot, then you need to fix it at your side.

 

Since you are using a NAA and my NAA image boots to RAM, you can try using that one for comparison. With NAA, it doesn't really matter how you run HQPlayer.

 

[maya]

16 hours ago, Miska said:

 

100 ms is good starting point.

 

I just cannot support various custom OS configurations. You can boot to standard Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and see if you can reproduce the problem. If you can, then we need to find way for me to reproduce the problem there. If you cannot, then you need to fix it at your side.

 

Since you are using a NAA and my NAA image boots to RAM, you can try using that one for comparison. With NAA, it doesn't really matter how you run HQPlayer.

 

Understood thanks for your reply,  I also load NAA with my kernel into RAM for several years already,  NAA is a great companion or a must  for HQPlayer !

We feel the HQP will  play a key role to the SQ of the HQP-NAA system without doubt.

We can either use direct connection between HQP and NAA via a good LAN cable or via a good switch box, both of them can affect SQ markedly.

RAM boot HQPlayer is much better than regular HQP which has been verified by many audiophile friends of mine  with their sophiscated systems at the local.

For NAA we also use itx mobo with modified clocks,  it has good result. 

I will follow you suggestion to try Ubuntu HQP later and report you back then.

 

The new modulator 7EC is great, a game changer actually and in terms of SQ , HQPe is the best !

Thanks !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Miska]

52 minutes ago, maya said:

We can either use direct connection between HQP and NAA via a good LAN cable or via a good switch box, both of them can affect SQ markedly.

 

Are you making sure that the cable is UTP type? STP/FTP cable types are absolutely no-no for NAA use. So at least check that the RJ45 connector on the cable is full plastic-body, not the metal body type.

 

It absolutely shouldn't make any sound quality difference. If there is difference, it needs some research to find out why to eliminate it. If it makes difference, it is negating point of NAA.

 

Can you measure the difference from DAC output? How does it look like?

 

57 minutes ago, maya said:

RAM boot HQPlayer is much better than regular HQP which has been verified by many audiophile friends of mine  with their sophiscated systems at the local.

 

Everything always runs from the RAM anyway, but loading entire filesystem to RAM just stores redundant information in RAM and reduces amount of free memory to be used as disk cache for content. So I'm not doing it. If you use NAA, I cannot think of mechanism how HQPlayer computer would make a difference. Actual playback is performed by NAA and HQPlayer is just doing processing as a network service. This HQPlayer processing could be even implemented as a cloud service on the internet.

 

[asdf1000]

13 minutes ago, Miska said:

This HQPlayer processing could be even implemented as a cloud service on the internet.

 

Will be interesting if someone (or even you!) offers this one day... a monthly or yearly subscription service.

 

And the backend stuff done by really powerful computer/s. As long as the end user has sufficient internet speed and data limit.

 

[maya]

37 minutes ago, Miska said:

38 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Are you making sure that the cable is UTP type? STP/FTP cable types are absolutely no-no for NAA use. So at least check that the RJ45 connector on the cable is full plastic-body, not the metal body type.

 

It absolutely shouldn't make any sound quality difference. If there is difference, it needs some research to find out why to eliminate it. If it makes difference, it is negating point of NAA.

 

Can you measure the difference from DAC output? How does it look like?

 

 

Everything always runs from the RAM anyway, but loading entire filesystem to RAM just stores redundant information in RAM and reduces amount of free memory to be used as disk cache for content. So I'm not doing it. If you use NAA, I cannot think of mechanism how HQPlayer computer would make a difference. Actual playback is performed by NAA and HQPlayer is just doing processing as a network service. This HQPlayer processing could be even implemented as a cloud service on the internet.

 

 

I have noticed UTP LAN cable you mentioned before and found it is true ! 

We  tried to  DIY some UTP LAN cable with better wires it works very good, but it still KO by some expensive LAN cable such as Vertere ethernet cable which is a STP cable .

In audiophile world sometimes it's a bit "weird",  " hearing is believing ..."

If I said different RAM may have different sound who will believe ? 😁

[Miska]

6 minutes ago, maya said:

I have noticed UTP LAN cable you mentioned before and found it is true ! 

We  tried to  DIY some UTP LAN cable with better wires it works very good, but it still KO by some expensive LAN cable such as Vertere ethernet cable which is a STP cable .

 

Point in UTP is that it lets Ethernet's galvanic isolation through transformers work. While STP cable connects grounds and thus negates the galvanic isolation which is one of the main reasons to use Ethernet. Even better, you can use optical Ethernet for complete isolation.

 

7 minutes ago, maya said:

If I said different RAM may have different sound who will believe ?

 

Depends where it is and what follows. In NAA, if you have a USB DAC, a lot depends on it's USB implementation. Or if you have a DAC with built-in NAA like the new T+A where you can send up to DSD1024 over Ethernet.

 

On my HQPlayer servers I just get fast RAM with minimal CL to maximize processing capacity. So it is usually something like HyperX Predator.

 

For NAA use I have things like the Logic Supply CL100, UP Gateway, MinnowBoard Turbot (dual core), and the various ARM-based devices.

 

On x86 RAM is typically separate from the processor, except devices like Intel Joule which was stacked architecture like many ARM SoC solutions are. Stacked configuration is systematically always used on mobile phones and tablets. In stacked you have first SoC on the PCB and then RAM sits on top. So it is a sandwich where CPU is in the middle.

[maya]

34 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Point in UTP is that it lets Ethernet's galvanic isolation through transformers work. While STP cable connects grounds and thus negates the galvanic isolation which is one of the main reasons to use Ethernet. Even better, you can use optical Ethernet for complete isolation.

 

 

Depends where it is and what follows. In NAA, if you have a USB DAC, a lot depends on it's USB implementation. Or if you have a DAC with built-in NAA like the new T+A where you can send up to DSD1024 over Ethernet.

 

On my HQPlayer servers I just get fast RAM with minimal CL to maximize processing capacity. So it is usually something like HyperX Predator.

 

For NAA use I have things like the Logic Supply CL100, UP Gateway, MinnowBoard Turbot (dual core), and the various ARM-based devices.

 

On x86 RAM is typically separate from the processor, except devices like Intel Joule which was stacked architecture like many ARM SoC solutions are. Stacked configuration is systematically always used on mobile phones and tablets. In stacked you have first SoC on the PCB and then RAM sits on top. So it is a sandwich where CPU is in the middle.

Tried optical ethernet card plus Adnaco  long ago, dislike the sound and not used now

[maya]

Just now, maya said:

Tried optical ethernet card plus Adnaco  long ago, dislike the sound and not used now

Still have some CL6 old RAM used before,  seems the lower the better

[Miska]

3 hours ago, maya said:

Still have some CL6 old RAM used before,  seems the lower the better

 

Just remember that latency is function of frequency too, so you need to calculate how many nanoseconds 6 clock cycles is at it's memory frequency. And also weight that with transfer rate, so pick a one that has both as high as possible transfer rate and as low as possible latency.

 

There's a good table for reference here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency

 

So for example DDR4-4600 at CL18 (for example G.Skill Trident Z) gives you pretty good figures at the moment. With i7-8086K I'm at DDR4-2666 CL12 at the moment. So maximum performance within official CPU specs without overclocking.

 

[rando]

On 9/12/2019 at 8:38 AM, adamthebrave said:

Can you reccomend me a good GB switch?

 

France has too high tax rates.  The Nordic countries have appeal (on top of including Signalyst HQ) with Malmo, Sweden being well regarded.  

 

2 hours ago, Miska said:

so pick a one that has both as high as possible transfer rate and as low as possible latency.

 

Have you, or are you expecting to with 3950X, experienced AMD related issues with this for HQP use?  Never been totally sure how overblown selectivity of RAM with processor/mb combos is.

[maya]

7 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Just remember that latency is function of frequency too, so you need to calculate how many nanoseconds 6 clock cycles is at it's memory frequency. And also weight that with transfer rate, so pick a one that has both as high as possible transfer rate and as low as possible latency.

 

There's a good table for reference here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency

 

So for example DDR4-4600 at CL18 (for example G.Skill Trident Z) gives you pretty good figures at the moment. With i7-8086K I'm at DDR4-2666 CL12 at the moment. So maximum performance within official CPU specs without overclocking.

 

Thanks for the additional info, unique and useful !

 

BTW my Debian Buster test  version with various kernels including the latest 5.2.10 rt 5  now can play HQP4Desktop 4.1.1 with 7EC ext2, having sound at both channels !

It seems somehow there was a residual HQP 3.25 setting file at .hqplayer folder , after clearing up now  it works normally !

Again would like say,  Ram boot USB HQPe Debian 9  has the best sound especially after removal of USB stick !

My testing  Buster HQPe  is a GNU  version hope can  solve the NAA not found issue ...😊

I have a graphic version of HQPe on  Debian 9, not finished yet ...

 

[maya]

14 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Just remember that latency is function of frequency too, so you need to calculate how many nanoseconds 6 clock cycles is at it's memory frequency. And also weight that with transfer rate, so pick a one that has both as high as possible transfer rate and as low as possible latency.

 

There's a good table for reference here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAS_latency

 

So for example DDR4-4600 at CL18 (for example G.Skill Trident Z) gives you pretty good figures at the moment. With i7-8086K I'm at DDR4-2666 CL12 at the moment. So maximum performance within official CPU specs without overclocking.

 

Thanks for the info 

[Miska]

9 hours ago, maya said:

Again would like say,  Ram boot USB HQPe Debian 9  has the best sound especially after removal of USB stick !

 

Have you tried running OS from Intel Optane M.2? That is as optimal as it can get.

 

All my Debian, Fedora and Ubuntu Server installations are on either SATA SSD or M.2 SSD. Especially with M.2 I like that HQPlayer Embedded is up and running in ~5 seconds after pressing power button. And shuts down in one second after pressing power button.