HQ Player

[Miska]

18 minutes ago, tboooe said:

Am I reading this right..for Holo Spring set DAC Bits in HQP to 20?

 

Yes, if you use the R2R (PCM) side of it, that gives the best resolution. I rarely do that, I run it mostly at DSD. And regarding dither/noise shaping settings, same as above. At least TPDF/Gauss1 and at the top rates one can try also NS5/NS9.

 

For me, this makes fairly big difference compared to sending 24-bit there.

 

[Allan F]

Jussi,

 

Last month I posted that I am unable to edit metadata by double clicking on entries in Library view. That remains the case with Desktop version 3.25.3 and my Windows 10 Pro (64 bit) setup. You previously indicated that this strange behaviour may be due to problems with the "UI Toolkit", whatever that is. Is there any way to troubleshoot that component?

[Yviena]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

By the way, one thing worth checking is "DAC Bits" setting in HQPlayer. I'm assuming you are using TPDF dither? To set exactly correct value, one would need linearity sweep measurement of the DAC. But 20 bits is good starting point, that is for example what Holo Spring manages before starting to deviate. So you get best accuracy by setting DAC Bits to correct value and using TPDF/Gauss1 dither, or a noise shaper. In case of 352.8/384k output rate NS9 and you can also try NS5.

 

There are measurements of the dac1541 here

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/soekris-dac1541-technical-measurements.4907/

But unsure what measurement is for linearity, is it the gain linearity one?

 

 

 

[Outlaw]

17 hours ago, Miska said:

 

OK, really hard to say what it could be. You could try sending me HQPlayer log file over email and I can check if I can find something there...

 

Were do you find log file.

[bibo01]

24 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Were do you find log file.

Look in HQPlayer manual, in the troubleshoot section.

[tboooe]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

Yes, if you use the R2R (PCM) side of it,

I thought Holo is R2R for DSD as well???

[Miska]

3 hours ago, tboooe said:

I thought Holo is R2R for DSD as well???

 

No it is not really... But anyway the DAC Bits setting is applicable only for PCM output. DSD is always "1-bit".

 

So if you always keep the Holo in DSD mode, it doesn't really matter. Only if you use it's PCM side.

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, Yviena said:

There are measurements of the dac1541 here

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/soekris-dac1541-technical-measurements.4907/

But unsure what measurement is for linearity, is it the gain linearity one?

 

Yes, that's the one, so look at the point where it begins to deviate from straight line. Seems to be at -100 dB which is around 17 bits. So it is best set DAC Bits to 17. Since that is not so many bits, it is then best to use noise-shaping to increase dynamic range in audio band. So I'd recommend to try NS5 and NS9 at those 352.8/384k rates. That way you don't lose dynamic range.

 

[asdf1000]

@Miska how does the dac1541 treat DSD?

 

I saw on one forum someone mentioned it converts DSD to PCM? I can ask the company directly but you mentioned you spoke with them in person. I'm sure this was one of your first questions! 🙂

 

Also - is it compatible at DSD256 with your HQPe image?

 

[Miska]

1 minute ago, Em2016 said:

@Miska how does the dac1541 treat DSD?

 

I saw on one forum someone mentioned it converts DSD to PCM? I can ask the company directly but you mentioned you spoke with them in person. I'm sure this was one of your first questions! 🙂

 

It doesn't... It's a pure PCM DAC... If it plays DSD then it is just converting it to PCM. Not worth sending DSD there...

 

2 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Also - is it compatible at DSD256 with your HQPe image?

 

I don't know what USB interface they use, but as mentioned, no reason to send DSD there. Likely PCM input works from the HQPE image.

 

[asdf1000]

12 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

It doesn't... It's a pure PCM DAC... If it plays DSD then it is just converting it to PCM. Not worth sending DSD there...

 

 

I don't know what USB interface they use, but as mentioned, no reason to send DSD there. Likely PCM input works from the HQPE image.

 

 

Ah damn.

 

And from discussions above with @Yviena, I see there is a 2nd up-sampling stage (FIR2) to  2.8/3.1 Mhz, internally.

 

Wish the USB input could support PCM768kHz.

 

 

[Miska]

41 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

And from discussions above with @Yviena, I see there is a 2nd up-sampling stage (FIR2) to  2.8/3.1 Mhz, internally.

 

Wish the USB input could support PCM768kHz.

 

Or higher, 1.4/1.5 MHz like Spring 2...

 

But it is not so much problem if the FIR2 stage is even semi-decent. Because what matters the most is first step up from 44.1k...

 

[asdf1000]

7 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Or higher, 1.4/1.5 MHz like Spring 2...

 

But it is not so much problem if the FIR2 stage is even semi-decent. Because what matters the most is first step up from 44.1k...

 

 

True. If FIR2 stage is decent, then you get HQP digital filtering for sound quality and internal filter to push images way up for easier/better analogue filtering - if I've understood your teachings correctly!

 

[Miska]

1 minute ago, Em2016 said:

True. If FIR2 stage is decent, then you get HQP digital filtering for sound quality and internal filter to push images way up for easier/better analogue filtering - if I've understood your teachings correctly!

 

Yes...

 

By the way, seems to be XMOS USB interface, so should work without problems:

http://soekris.dk/images/dac1541_open_1200.jpg

 

[asdf1000]

Btw @Miska does Holo Spring 2 perform as well with PCM ~1.5MHz, as with DSD256?

 

I know you prefer DSD but in terms of yours measurements, both PCM and DSD perform similar (and very well) at these rates?

 

Are there any measurements you've seen where PCM ~1.5MHz is not as good as DSD256?

[Miska]

49 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Btw @Miska does Holo Spring 2 perform as well with PCM ~1.5MHz, as with DSD256?

 

I know you prefer DSD but in terms of yours measurements, both PCM and DSD perform similar (and very well) at these rates?

 

Are there any measurements you've seen where PCM ~1.5MHz is not as good as DSD256?

 

Differently... But you definitely need to dither down to 20-bit to get close to DSD256/DSD512.

[57gold]

Long time user of HQPlayer, but have a hard time explaining to other equally tech un-savvy people like me what it does to filter as it up-converts my CD rip files on my Mini.  

 

Has there been an "expert" review of HQPlayer?   Know I can send friends to this site but they will probably get as confused as I do reading 532 pages of folks talking about stuff that they will not understand, like I do when the charts and graphs and other technical matters are posted.  A plain English description is what I'm after.

 

I searched Absolute Sound and Stereophile and Darko to see if there might be a review or a discussion within a review...but did not find one.   Thanks. 

[k-man]

3 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Has there been an "expert" review of HQPlayer? 

https://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/02/measurements-look-at-hqplayer-325.html?m=1

[Miska]

2 hours ago, 57gold said:

I searched Absolute Sound and Stereophile and Darko to see if there might be a review or a discussion within a review...but did not find one.   Thanks. 

 

What I recall, most of such have been part of SGM2015 reviews or related to T+A DAC8 DSD:

https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/sound-galleries-monaco-server-sgm2015/

https://www.audiostream.com/content/sound-galleries-sgm-2015-music-server

https://www.audiostream.com/content/ta-dac-8

 

[57gold]

Thanks k-man. 

 

Not much about the sonic impacts, reviewer listened files on a value-oriented Oppo DAC that is discontinued through headphones.  He noticed subtle differences as he adjusted HQPlayer. 

 

My experience through a Mytek B+ with external LPS directly into DNA-500 driving Aerial Acoustics 10Ts is that conversion to DSD128 and filter changes with HQPlayer are not very subtle in sonic impact.  For that matter,  hear significant variation in sonics with players like A+ and PM, which I purchased prior to HQPlayer.

[Miska]

2 hours ago, 57gold said:

My experience through a Mytek B+ with external LPS directly into DNA-500 driving Aerial Acoustics 10Ts is that conversion to DSD128 and filter changes with HQPlayer are not very subtle in sonic impact.

 

I assume you are on Mac and thus limited to DSD128? I would say trying to go for DSD256 with the Mytek, for example using a NAA, would be probably worth it...

 

[Pocobear]

44 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I assume you are on Mac and thus limited to DSD128? I would say trying to go for DSD256 with the Mytek, for example using a NAA, would be probably worth it...

 

All my Mac's can do DSD256, no problem.

[Miska]

34 minutes ago, Pocobear said:

All my Mac's can do DSD256, no problem.

 

CoreAudio doesn't support native DSD... So DoP needs to be used. To do DSD256 over DoP the DAC needs to expose 705.6/768k  PCM rate. Most DSD256 capable DACs don't do this. As a side effect the highest DSD rate is available only through native (non-DoP) DSD on Linux or through ASIO driver on Windows... Same goes for DSD512 and DSD1024 too.

 

[57gold]

Miska, what are my best choices for a NAA to use with my quad core Mini?

[asdf1000]

On 8/24/2018 at 6:29 AM, Miska said:

 

Because it would be so excessive long. 16 million taps is around one second at DSD256/DSD512. At 705.6 kHz it would be around 24 seconds...

 

 

Is this 24 seconds only initialisation time?

 

If so, as long as people are made aware and are happy dealing with this, it should be ok and should never be any complaints?

 

Can I make a feature request for PCM sinc-16M filter....