tboooe Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Miska said: They are very different. DSD5 is fifth order and can adapt some of the parameters, but otherwise it is fairly static one. It is in a way closer to a traditional modulator. ASDM7 is seventh order and more adaptive in various ways, I'd call it more modern. ASDM5 is similar to ASDM7 but fifth order. Fifth order modulators are slightly less demanding for DAC's DSD noise filter, while seventh order ones are otherwise better. I dont really understand the technical differences but I recently switched from the ASDM7 512+fs modular to DSD7 256+fs. I feel DSD7 sounds more natural to me. 12TB NAS >> i7-6700 Server/Control PC >> i3-5015u NAA >> Singxer SU-1 DDC (modded) >> Holo Spring L3 DAC >> Accustic Arts Power 1 int amp >> Sonus Faber Guaneri Evolution speakers + REL T/5i sub (x2) Other components: UpTone Audio LPS1.2/IsoRegen, Fiber Switch and FMC, Windows Server 2016 OS, Audiophile Optimizer 3.0, Fidelizer Pro 6, HQ Player, Roonserver, PS Audio P3 AC regenerator, HDPlex 400W ATX & 200W Linear PSU, Light Harmonic Lightspeed Split USB cable, Synergistic Research Tungsten AC power cords, Tara Labs The One speaker cables, Tara Labs The Two Extended with HFX Station IC, Oyaide R1 outlets, Stillpoints Ultra Mini footers, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses, Vicoustic/RealTraps/GIK room treatments Link to comment
jvvita Posted September 6, 2018 Share Posted September 6, 2018 Could you please explain what does fifth or seventh order mean? Always been curious and never able to find an explanation for this characteristic of the filters Link to comment
soares Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 23 hours ago, Em2016 said: Hi soares Actually this observation here is normal. You can't have MQA rendering/decoding working together with Roon DSD-sampling. If you change your device settings to 'No MQA support' in Roon, then you can have the 1st unfold up-sampled by either Roon or HQPlayer. Can you give that a try and report back? Tks Em2016. I will try this We and report back. asdf1000 1 Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
soares Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 18 hours ago, Miska said: This is the firmware + driver problem... Not related to HQPlayer. Your DAC doesn't seem to support 48k-base DSD rates. It is not related to MQA, but to source sampling rate. Same thing happens with non-MQA 96k files and such. You can tell HQPlayer to use max 44.1k x256 output rate and turn off "auto rate family". I cannot comment about Roon upsampling, I have never tried it. I just always make sure Roon's DSP engine is disabled. Thank you Jussi. I will try and report back. Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
Le Concombre Masqué Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 On 9/6/2018 at 11:53 AM, Miska said: Seems to be yet another very short (and leaky filter) filter similar to the MQA's ones. Too bad it is yet another story with time domain plot of the filter's impulse response, but without frequency domain plots. Since it has only very few taps they are able to run it on the XMOS MCU's very limited computing resources, like MQA too. they claim: "It may be of course, that some will prefer the sound of a very long filter, with large amounts of ringing/reverb/echo as the result is often perceived as extra added spaciousness," I should include spaciousness in my perception of the benefits (when applicable) of CF16M ; am I thus fooling myself when I'd swear that actual real detailed space cues show off more readily with CF ? Link to comment
westside Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Hi Do you advice to me the ifi micro idsd black label to use with Hqplayer ? Does it sound better that a Psaudio Nuwave ( first v. Max 24/192 hz) Thank you by advance for your help. Link to comment
Miska Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 10 hours ago, Le Concombre Masqué said: they claim: "It may be of course, that some will prefer the sound of a very long filter, with large amounts of ringing/reverb/echo as the result is often perceived as extra added spaciousness," I should include spaciousness in my perception of the benefits (when applicable) of CF16M ; am I thus fooling myself when I'd swear that actual real detailed space cues show off more readily with CF ? Ahh, ignore it, it doesn't work that way... Upsampling filters don't work like echo/reverb. Le Concombre Masqué 1 Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Sloop John B Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 @Miska can you list which filters are non-apodizing and explain the sonic differences (sonic preferably) between apodizing and non-apodizing? thanks, .sjb Link to comment
Popular Post Miska Posted September 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 8, 2018 11 minutes ago, Sloop John B said: @Miska can you list which filters are non-apodizing and explain the sonic differences (sonic preferably) between apodizing and non-apodizing? It is not 100% black and white, but poly-sinc-hb, minringFIR, closed-form and polynomial are non-apodizing. With apodizing filters, impulse response (ringing) of ADC anti-alias filter or mastering SRC is replaced with that of upsampling filter. Which one, depends on where the final sampling rate was produced (for example recording at 44.1 mastered to 44.1 or recording at 96 mastered to 44.1). Apodizing filters help cleaning up problems caused by frequently not so great filters used earlier in the chain. Overall, this helps obtaining more consistent sound quality across different recordings. Non-apodizing filters don't try to fix problems introduced earlier in the chain, but instead play such out as-is. So any ringing or other filter problems from the earlier stages comes through untouched. So you get more record to record variability due to differences in production chain. Roughly speaking, apodizing filters are great for generic productions what most of the music out there is. Non-apodizing filters may work well in cases like audiophile recordings where extra attention has been paid on technical details of the production. If you listen something like latest Pink Floyd remasters, I'd recommend to stick with apodizing filters... rickca, Le Concombre Masqué, Pocobear and 1 other 1 1 2 Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
Le Concombre Masqué Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 On 8/27/2018 at 6:35 PM, HardrockInMiniMac said: Boy, closed-form-16M, ASDM7, 48kx128 is possible on my MacMini and slightly beats the same setup with poly-sinc-xtr-2s. There are some cracks indicating that the CPU is totally pitched out but the sound quality, oh my god! It is strange though, if I run my standard setup with "poly-sinc-xtr-2s" and just switch by the pull down menu to "closed -form-16m" and restart the same song it sounds less impressiv than if I change to "closed-form-16m" in the settings. "Closed-form-16m" also does not accept the 48kx128 and shows 5.6448M as a result while "poly-sinc-xtr-2s" shows 6.144M. However, surely tricking my own mind, if I setup "closed-form-16m" correctly to what it seems to ask which is 44k x 128 I get less good results than by leaving it on 48k x 128. What the heck? HQP is so cool. I love it. Chris I concur : heard from pull down menu does not equal heard as elected in settings. I experienced it this afternoon, setting ASDM5, and the difference was less subtle than between some of the modulators. + I suspect that when you make a change it does not apply 100% right away. In the end HQP is so cool. I love it too but it can drive crazy. I picked ASDM5 (vs DSD5V2 in settings, prior) almost as a joke : weirdest and can't recall of anybody promoting it : yes there are differences between modulators filters integrators and even convolution engines (and changing one parameter alters my perception of what is the best option for another parameter), but I hope I ended a crisis and will let my mind do the final eQ and just listent to music FWIW : I will live for a while with integrator CIC/modulator ASDM5/convolution engine ADD + CF16M/poly-sinc-xtr-2s as RB filters and poly sinc short for 96 and 192 files, looking forward being able to use minringFIR and mqa mp with 96/192 (my DAC does not allow n48 DSD rates) Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Hi Miska, I am using poly-sinc-mqa very often in recent weeks. I like the sound it gives. But there is some strange peculiarity. When I listen to the same material and change filters from, say, poly-sinc-xtr to poly-sinc-mqa the sound picture moves slightly from very center to the left. It happened many times with different music files. Other filters give pretty well-centered picture. What might be the reason and is there a way to fix it? This is more apparent in PCM, not much in SDM. Thank you. Link to comment
acousticmood Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 Still having difficulty with HQ player/Roon/ Oppo 205 latest firmware upgrade. Vers 118 only gives white noise when playing through HQ player/ ultra Rendu / 205 i tried to go back to OPPO vers. 112 but am unable to anyone else have these problems? Link to comment
soares Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Yes, lots of people. Please see my posts earlier. Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
soares Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Jussi suggested the contacts of Andrew and Jesus... There's a couple of posr on the Roon Community also. Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
acousticmood Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 So who is most likely to fix this? OPPO? HQplayer? Ultra Rendu? Roon? Link to comment
soares Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Good question. I do not know. It's so unfortunate... I was about to send my Oppo to korea for a complete mode... Now I don't know anymore. Please see the link where it seems that there is an explanation. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/udp-205-doesn-t-accept-dsd-native-from-rock/46892 Can you translate for dummies? Myself:-) Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
soares Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 On 9/5/2018 at 9:22 PM, Em2016 said: Hi soares Actually this observation here is normal. You can't have MQA rendering/decoding working together with Roon DSD-sampling. If you change your device settings to 'No MQA support' in Roon, then you can have the 1st unfold up-sampled by either Roon or HQPlayer. Can you give that a try and report back? Yes I tried but now I don't have MQAStudio. Additionally there's static mixed with the music. At least this static has been recognised by Oppo or Roon ( I don't remember any more) and we might see a solution. But this is just one part of the whole problem. Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, soares said: Yes I tried but now I don't have MQAStudio. Yes that's normal. You can't have MQA Studio as well as DSD512 up-sampling at the same time. The 1st unfold (up to 96KHz) by Roon/Audirvana can be DSD up-sampled. 4 minutes ago, soares said: Additionally there's static mixed with the music. At least this static has been recognised by Oppo or Roon ( I don't remember any more) Yes I've seen your posts here and on Roon forum. Hope you get a resolution. Must be very frustrating. Link to comment
soares Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Yes... As you might recall I spent months trying to get rid of the white noise of my Qutest when upsampling. I had already gave up and suddenly with the auto rate option enable I thinks It's manageable. Jussi says not to count too much on it ?... Now the Oppo when I had decided to have it modded and see if it was superior to the Qutest with the view of keeping just one Dac. But what make me still more frustrated is the I do not know who is responsible for coming back with a solution... Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
asdf1000 Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, soares said: Jussi says not to count too much on it ?... As usual, he is right. I have seen these issues pop up randomly before when I had Mojo and Hugo2 at PCM705/768kHz. 4 minutes ago, soares said: But what make me still more frustrated is the I do not know who is responsible for coming back with a solution... I know you've asked the forums, but have you reported it directly to both Oppo and Roon Tech Support? They might reply to you that they are aware and a fix is being worked on. Link to comment
soares Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 On 9/6/2018 at 2:52 AM, Miska said: This is the firmware + driver problem... Not related to HQPlayer. Your DAC doesn't seem to support 48k-base DSD rates. It is not related to MQA, but to source sampling rate. Same thing happens with non-MQA 96k files and such. You can tell HQPlayer to use max 44.1k x256 output rate and turn off "auto rate family". I cannot comment about Roon upsampling, I have never tried it. I just always make sure Roon's DSP engine is disabled. I tried Jussi. It just doesn't work. So I don't think it is related to the support of 48k-base DSD rates. And before I never had a single problem with the OPPO. https://community.roonlabs.com/t/udp-205-doesn-t-accept-dsd-native-from-rock/46892 Could you please explain the meaning of what is stated in this link? Does it help to explain what is all about? Thank you. Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
soares Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Em2016 said: As usual, he is right. I have seen these issues pop up randomly before when I had Mojo and Hugo2 at PCM705/768kHz. I know you've asked the forums, but have you reported it directly to both Oppo and Roon Tech Support? They might reply to you that they are aware and a fix is being worked on. I already reported to OPPO Europe as I do not see the the link to OPPO America. So far I haven't received any replies. Do you know how to report to OPPO America? I will report to Roon. Thank you. Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
soares Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 By the way Em2016, what DAC are you using? Thank you again for all your support. Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
soares Posted September 9, 2018 Share Posted September 9, 2018 Jussi, I already sent a message to Andrew. Unfortunately Jesus don't accept message through his CA contact. Would you be kind enough to contact him directly? Thank you. Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule> SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45> IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45> etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen> USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature. Link to comment
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