HQ Player

[Miska]

50 minutes ago, louisxiawei said:

@Miska I noticed that there is a new kind of filter with suffix "-lp" in the HQplayer embedded. Could you please kindly tell what that is? Why is this "lp" filter not included in the HQplayer desktop version? Thanks.

 

It is the linear-phase variant, the same one that don't have suffix in Desktop version. I think it is more clear and logical to have -lp and -mp.

 

52 minutes ago, louisxiawei said:

I'm curious and eager to try any new filters. However, with the requirement of linux system need to be installed for HQplayer embedded. Things start to get a little troublesome for windows daily users.

 

There are no new filters... But it is not that hard to use, because you don't need to install anything if you use the bootable image... Just like with the NAA images too.

 

[westside]

Hi,

According to you, i looking for the very best sound quality.

I have already win 10 pro + hqplayer + AO + The last Fidelizer.

I have a DAC its the psaudio Nuwave (No dsd support) with very good usb cable (nordost)

I have another dac its the ifi nano idsd.

I have a headphone its the LDC2 by Audeze.

My amp is a RKV MARK2 by Audiovalve.

I listen only with my Audeze.

So what could you advice to me to go further ?

Im already happy with this system but you know very well how are the Audiophiles ˆˆ

[Milt99]

I'm on fishing expedition so bear with me, please.

Earlier I believe that Ted_B posed a question about being able to modify HQPlayer to spin off the upsampled\filtered DSD stream to a Hard Drive. Thus upon subsequent plays the processing could be bypassed and the modified stream be fed directly through the system.

This to me is brilliant idea.

Was I dreaming? Too many cocktails & vapes?

Unfortunately and it may be my own ineptitude, but I cannot find that post or the responses.

Not even sure if this is the correct thread.

That said, I do find the software that drives this forum to be near worthless for searching.

Thanks for any help in finding this content

[jimdukey]

Go to ComputerAudiophile.com.

It's all there.

[ted_b]

14 hours ago, Milt99 said:

I'm on fishing expedition so bear with me, please.

Earlier I believe that Ted_B posed a question about being able to modify HQPlayer to spin off the upsampled\filtered DSD stream to a Hard Drive. Thus upon subsequent plays the processing could be bypassed and the modified stream be fed directly through the system.

This to me is brilliant idea.

Was I dreaming? Too many cocktails & vapes?

Unfortunately and it may be my own ineptitude, but I cannot find that post or the responses.

Not even sure if this is the correct thread.

That said, I do find the software that drives this forum to be near worthless for searching.

Thanks for any help in finding this content

Yes, I brought up the idea many months ago.  Jussi responded that, theoretically, a "pro" version of HQPlayer that would allow one to save upsampled files would cost pro-level dollars (i.e thousands).  Oh, and your storage would exponentially increase too. 

 

BTW, not sure what JimDukey was trying to do.

[Milt99]

50 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Yes, I brought up the idea many months ago.  Jussi responded that, theoretically, a "pro" version of HQPlayer that would allow one to save upsampled files would cost pro-level dollars (i.e thousands).  Oh, and your storage would exponentially increase too. 

 

BTW, not sure what JimDukey was trying to do.

Thanks Ted.

I figured there was some major stumbling block to this like the cost of implementation as nothing seemed to have come of it.

I also figured that the files would balloon in size as well along the lines of the upsampling factor at least.

Still a great idea. Just before it's time.

[Yviena]

Hmm just switched to the poly-sinc-shrt filter for my R2R dac1541 I kinda feel that the imaging/depth is a little bit better than the closed form filter, could be because it's apodizing.and replacing ADC ringing. 

 

Just wondering but does NOS mean no oversampling anywhere or only for FIR1 as my dac is still oversampling the FIR2 filter.

[MarcinGD]

As I needed to lift voltage on my 7700k due to lag problems I have a question regarding fanless case because my FC8 from streacom doesn't fit my needs anymore. CPU gets too hot in long auditions so I think about HDPLEX. Someone use it with such powerfull processor with DSD512 upsampling here ? Or maybe bigger FC10 will be sufficient for such heater ?

[Kal Rubinson]

I have a Baetis Prodigy X in a box which seems similar to the FC10.  It has a 7700K and I have run it with the stock 12V/16A PS as well as the HDPLEX 400.  No problems with overheating however (1) I do not do DSD512 upsampling but (2) I do run DSD files up to DSD256, downsample them to 24/192 PCM and feed them through DiracLiveEQ in 6 channels.

[MarcinGD]

Kal thanks for Your quick response. As I can see some photos on Stereophile Your box include fan for better air circulation inside. That might be a big help getting some lower temp. I want to avoid any fans in my build. Looking for solution as I'm really addicted to 48k x512  . I had previously 6700k that was running stock on 1V. This 7700k doesn't wan't to go stable lower than 1,2V and this 0,2V increase is critical for overall temp on cpu.

[Miska]

The one in my picture for example here is FC10. It should work without trouble to 65W TDP. And with some extra care probably also with 95W TDP with something like 7700K. Note that 95W TDP with 7700K is not the same as 95W TDP with something like AMD Ryzen 7. Because when using something like HQPlayer Embedded or similar, the GPU in 7700K is not used and thus the GPU part doesn't contribute to the real heat bill. While AMD Ryzen 7 doesn't have built-in GPU, so loading it's CPU cores will make it get much closer to rated TDP in practice!

 

I've been planning to build a Ryzen based machine into newer Streacom DB4 chassis. But of course it won't fit so nicely in the equipment rack. But wouldn't look bad sitting on the floor by itself...

 

P.S. The CPU I have in FC10 can do with three heat pipes, because it's the low-TDP i5-7600T model. The fourth heat pipe didn't fit because one capacitor is on the way...

 

[oilpaint]

Off track of the current discussion but I have some questions on HQP (which I am a HUGH fan of) and volume control. I use HQP and ROON to send music to my Devialet 1000. I have reported this before but I get the dreaded red dial in HQP if I have the min Vol set to less than +-  -8. This doesn’t appear to be track related. Just now I set both the min and max to -3 in HQP since I understood that would take any volume control away from HQP and only have the Devialet control the volume. Without the music being very loud I watched as the HQP dial stayed red and the limit climbed 9, 10 ,...15. Then I shut it down. As I understand clipping, it occurs because the amp doesn’t have enough power for the speakers (Magico S3 in my case). Can anyone explain what is going on?

 

Much appreciated

 

 

[oilpaint]

Just a quick follow up question. Just set the max vol in HQP to -10, but moved the volume dial to max. Once music started it went red and showed limited of 5. Should I be mucking with the dial at all? If I leave the dial at about ‘2:00’ and the max volume at -8 or so everything is fine. I’m just trying to understand this.....

[Milt99]

Apologies if this has been asked before, but are there any current Intel CPUs other than the i9 that will run HQPlayer to DSD512 w\o using a separate vid card for CUDA?

[Miska]

49 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

Apologies if this has been asked before, but are there any current Intel CPUs other than the i9 that will run HQPlayer to DSD512 w\o using a separate vid card for CUDA?

 

Many, if you are fine with -2s filters. The lowest power machine I use for doing DSD512 output (with -2s filters) is i5-7600T.

 

If you want poly-sinc-xtr (the non-2s variant) to DSD512, then the options are much more limited... I have i7-6950X for that.

[twluke]

3 hours ago, MarcinGD said:

As I needed to lift voltage on my 7700k due to lag problems I have a question regarding fanless case because my FC8 from streacom doesn't fit my needs anymore. CPU gets too hot in long auditions so I think about HDPLEX. Someone use it with such powerfull processor with DSD512 upsampling here ? Or maybe bigger FC10 will be sufficient for such heater ?

Inspired by the previous post by Miska as stated by him hours ago, I built a fanless PC a month ago, using a HDPLEX H5 case, an i7 8700k CPU, a prime Z370-A board and 2 x 8GB RAM (DDR4-2666). For now it' working quite well without any problems for DSD512 play via HQ player/Roon (poly-sinc-mp-short) on Ubuntu 16.04 with Miska's kernel, confirmed by HoloAudio Cyan (DSD version) and a DIY Buffalo SE3pro (9038) from Twisted Pear, both through I2S/DSD connection via NAA running on BBB-Hermes/Cronus (from TPA). The PSU is a 450W FLEX with its internal fan replaced with a quieter one with PWM control. It becomes moderately hot within acceptable ranges and remains stable for days.

 

No OC with the CPU, though Core Ratio was set to AUTO on BIOS. The heat sink of the fanless case becomes lukewarm when HQP is running but never becomes so hot. It's quite okay. Please refer to this temperature recording movie. BTW, the sound is great, perhaps greater than playing DSD512 by HQP via my old 6700k machine (should be placebo, I think ).

 

Regards,

[Miska]

1 hour ago, oilpaint said:

Off track of the current discussion but I have some questions on HQP (which I am a HUGH fan of) and volume control. I use HQP and ROON to send music to my Devialet 1000. I have reported this before but I get the dreaded red dial in HQP if I have the min Vol set to less than +-  -8. This doesn’t appear to be track related. Just now I set both the min and max to -3 in HQP since I understood that would take any volume control away from HQP and only have the Devialet control the volume. Without the music being very loud I watched as the HQP dial stayed red and the limit climbed 9, 10 ,...15. Then I shut it down. As I understand clipping, it occurs because the amp doesn’t have enough power for the speakers (Magico S3 in my case). Can anyone explain what is going on?

 

Clipping happens because source content is pushed too high and frequently clipped already (thanks to loudness wars), this causes inter-sample overs in the upsampling filters, when the clipped peaks are extended and partially restored. PCM data has strict limits for largest numbers it can represent. HQPlayer has limiter to keep the values within that range, and the limited counter tells how many times it has been triggered. Your choice of filter in HQPlayer also affects the result (how much attenuation you need).

 

Volume control in HQPlayer can be used to lower the overall volume enough so that the output values stay within the the boundaries PCM samples can represent and thus limiter is not triggered. For most content, -3 dBFS is enough to keep that from happening, but I have albums too where that is not enough.

 

Volume control in Devialet cannot help for that case, because the samples need to be sent there somehow... This has nothing to do with amps, this is purely digital domain process.

 

1 hour ago, oilpaint said:

Just a quick follow up question. Just set the max vol in HQP to -10, but moved the volume dial to max. Once music started it went red and showed limited of 5. Should I be mucking with the dial at all? If I leave the dial at about ‘2:00’ and the max volume at -8 or so everything is fine. I’m just trying to understand this.....

 

Min and max settings in HQPlayer set adjustment range for the volume knob. When you turn the knob, the actual volume setting value is shown briefly in the HQPlayer status bar area at the bottom of the window. Without knowing your min and max settings, it is impossible to know what is the actual volume setting based on the knob position.

 

Example: if you set min = -20 and max = -10 and then turn the knob to noon '12' position, your setting is half-way and thus -15 dBFS.

 

[Milt99]

23 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Many, if you are fine with -2s filters. The lowest power machine I use for doing DSD512 output (with -2s filters) is i5-7600T.

 

If you want poly-sinc-xtr (the non-2s variant) to DSD512, then the options are much more limited... I have i7-6950X for that.

Thanks for the info, Miska.

Whoa, that CPU is a whopper. The poly-sinc-xtr filter must be Nirvana. I understand the realities of upsampling but I'd really rather not spend more on a PC than the DAC itself so Sonic Nirvana may evade me once again.

[oilpaint]

Thank you @Miska - I’m going to try and sort this out tomorrow. At this point I understand the knob better. One more question - if this has nothing to do with my amp does it also mean that my speakers are not in harms way?

 

Thanks again

[Miska]

1 minute ago, Milt99 said:

Whoa, that CPU is a whopper. The poly-sinc-xtr filter must be Nirvana. I understand the realities of upsampling but I'd really rather not spend more on a PC than the DAC itself so Sonic Nirvana may evade me once again.

 

I'm sure you'd be quite happy with the -2s filters too, including poly-sinc-xtr-2s...  So don't worry too much.

[Miska]

2 minutes ago, oilpaint said:

Thank you @Miska - I’m going to try and sort this out tomorrow. At this point I understand the knob better. One more question - if this has nothing to do with my amp does it also mean that my speakers are not in harms way?

 

No harm to speakers, thanks to soft limiter in HQPlayer, as long as you don't play it otherwise too loud. You may have noticed that when the limiter kicks in and the count increases, it is not too noticeable... But from overall sound quality perspective it is best to try to avoid triggering the limiter in first place. That's why there's a clear indication when it happens, trying to send a message "turn down the knob".

 

[oilpaint]

@Miska Thanks

[mtcs]

I have a question about hardware filters and how they interact with HQPlayer. I'm currently using HQP with Roon on a MacBook, going to and UltraRendu and on to an Auralic Vega DAC. The DAC has filters for PCM and DSD signals. How do the filters in the DAC affect the signal from HQP, am I getting the full benefit of HQP, is it better to have hardware that doesn't have a filter ? Thanks

[MarcinGD]

3 hours ago, twluke said:

Inspired by the previous post by Miska as stated by him hours ago, I built a fanless PC a month ago, using a HDPLEX H5 case, an i7 8700k CPU, a prime Z370-A board and 2 x 8GB RAM (DDR4-2666). For now it' working quite well without any problems for DSD512 play via HQ player/Roon (poly-sinc-mp-short) on Ubuntu 16.04 with Miska's kernel, confirmed by HoloAudio Cyan (DSD version) and a DIY Buffalo SE3pro (9038) from Twisted Pear, both through I2S/DSD connection via NAA running on BBB-Hermes/Cronus (from TPA). The PSU is a 450W FLEX with its internal fan replaced with a quieter one with PWM control. It becomes moderately hot within acceptable ranges and remains stable for days.

 

No OC with the CPU, though Core Ratio was set to AUTO on BIOS. The heat sink of the fanless case becomes lukewarm when HQP is running but never becomes so hot. It's quite okay. Please refer to this temperature recording movie. BTW, the sound is great, perhaps greater than playing DSD512 by HQP via my old 6700k machine (should be placebo, I think ).

 

Regards,

Thanks mate. That's what I've been looking for. 8700k is my next move but first I'm waiting for a mobos with cheaper bridges. They are on the horizon so in the next few months that will be on my purchase list. For now I see that hdplex h5 will be the one to buy. 

[Miska]

8 hours ago, mtcs said:

I have a question about hardware filters and how they interact with HQPlayer. I'm currently using HQP with Roon on a MacBook, going to and UltraRendu and on to an Auralic Vega DAC. The DAC has filters for PCM and DSD signals. How do the filters in the DAC affect the signal from HQP, am I getting the full benefit of HQP, is it better to have hardware that doesn't have a filter ? Thanks

 

Yes, you still get the benefits of HQPlayer. The first step up from the original sampling rate is most critical and has biggest impact on the sound.

 

With Vega, you likely get best sonic advantages by using DSD128 output from HQPlayer. When using this mode, use ASDM7 modulator in HQPlayer and set Vega to Mode 6.

 

You can also try sending 352.8/384k PCM. When using this mode use TPDF dither in HQPlayer and set Vega to Mode 2.

 

Filter selection at HQPlayer is up to your choice, you can use the manual to get an idea what to use. But you can start by trying the different poly-sinc variants.