HQ Player

[craighartley]

4 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Usually PoE is not on unless used, and at least on smart switches you can usually control it even per port.

 

 

Thanks. I wonder specifically in relation to these unmanaged Zyxel ones. Which one have you ordered actually? I'd be very interested to hear of your impressions with it, if you have a moment.

[Miska]

22 minutes ago, craighartley said:

Thanks. I wonder specifically in relation to these unmanaged Zyxel ones. Which one have you ordered actually? I'd be very interested to hear of your impressions with it, if you have a moment.

 

I got the 16-port one, should arrive today. I have SFPs in one HPE smart switch and PoEs in another HPE smart switch so I didn't need those on this one. This is purely to split one copper to many devices in my listening room equipment rack, the previous 8-port one run out of ports...

[Cooler]

22 hours ago, Miska said:

If you want more isolation, move over to optical network cards and then you definitely don't need to worry what is at the other side of the cable from isolation perspective. Optical networking capabilities was one of the primary reasons for creating NAA in first place.

Ok, i should have told that more clear about 'isolate'. I meant, i want isolate network with ultrarendu from network with router, thats it.

This gives SQ improvements, as i said before, you even can use ultrarendu fully isolated from network (some local music PC) without internet.

 

22 hours ago, Miska said:

Networking things are designed for networks, not for direct connections. So don't use technologies specifically designed not to be point-to-point connections, but instead for networks. You will just have these kind of trouble, adverse effects and all kinds of misery.

Yes, but no.  We are talking about music, network is one of the ways to 'deliver' music, and network wasnt created specially for music, we adapted it for that. So im interested in getting better SQ more, than about proper using of the network. But of course i have to understand, how network works, etc. Anyway it would be great, if you add option to select network in HQPlayer.

[Miska]

5 minutes ago, Cooler said:

Ok, i should have told that more clear about 'isolate'. I meant, i want isolate network with ultrarendu from network with router, thats it.

 

Take switch, connect it to the router, music PC and ultrarendu. Now you have isolated music PC and ultrarendu from your internet router and rest of the network.

 

7 minutes ago, Cooler said:

Yes, but no.  We are talking about music, network is one of the ways to 'deliver' music, and network wasnt created specially for music, we adapted it for that.

 

Internet wasn't created specifically for music, but still you can deliver hires downloads and Tidal over the internet just fine. This is no different.

 

8 minutes ago, Cooler said:

So im interested in getting better SQ more, than about proper using of the network

 

So add a good switch to the network. Use optical networking gear.

 

Using direct point-to-point copper connection gives you less isolation. It will have two isolation transformers less than when using a switch.

 

Then several orders of magnitude bigger SQ improvement can be made for example by running digital room correction filters in HQPlayer.

 

[freesteve]

So much time and effort to always make this a very remarkable music player.  Thank you Jussi.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

 

 

Then several orders of magnitude bigger SQ improvement can be made for example by running digital room correction filters in HQPlayer.

 

So true !

[richard kimber]

One thing I've done is to use a short cable with a noise filter built in to connect the switch to the Odroid that runs networkaudiod

[shadowlight]

17 hours ago, Hammer said:

 

Thanks.  Was hoping I won't need to do that for security reasons.  This is not a dedicated machine just for audio.

Sorry, I do not know the exact answer but you could always start with allowing HQPlayer executable access outbound on all port to your NAA.

[Hammer]

Thanks...I'll investigate some more.  Looking at task manager, it appears HQPlayer listens to port TCP 4321.  I'll check if opening that solves the problem and report back.

[Louie]

Hi there,

 

I am new to HQPlayer v3.19 and I upscale my 44.1 wav to DSD512 but, got stutter sound when using filter poly-sinc-xtr-mp. However, if I use -2s filter, it work perfectly.  Here is my PC configuration:

 

- Win10, Intel 7700K, 64G memory, SSD drive

- Nvidia GTX1060

 

PC -> USB -> SU-1 -> I2S -> Holo spring

 

When I use the poly-sinc-xtr-mp filter, my CPU only utilize around 20%. Thus, I think my hardware config should be capable to perform the DSD512 up scaling.

 

 

Is it any tuning on HQPlayer or win10 ?

Any advice?

Louie

 

 

[bibo01]

53 minutes ago, Louie said:

Hi there,

 

I am new to HQPlayer v3.19 and I upscale my 44.1 wav to DSD512 but, got stutter sound when using filter poly-sinc-xtr-mp. However, if I use -2s filter, it work perfectly.  Here is my PC configuration:

 

- Win10, Intel 7700K, 64G memory, SSD drive

- Nvidia GTX1060

 

PC -> USB -> SU-1 -> I2S -> Holo spring

 

When I use the poly-sinc-xtr-mp filter, my CPU only utilize around 20%. Thus, I think my hardware config should be capable to perform the DSD512 up scaling.

 

 

Is it any tuning on HQPlayer or win10 ?

Any advice?

Louie

 

 

Even if you have a nVidia 1060 card, try to remove Cuda offload and see what happens

[brother love]

Miska, Thank you for the ethernet switch recommendations. Looking forward to your findings with the Zyxel unit.

 

Do you have any recommendations/ findings re: cables for router/ switch/ PC server/ NAA connections? Do ethernet cable lengths (say 3 ft. or 6ft. versus 20 ft. length) factor into the equation any (performance/ quality)?

[Dr Tone]

@MiskaIs it normal that closed-form needs way more headroom than the other filters?

 

I was playing one bad album that -5db was enough for xtr and minrinFIR but -9db was still getting limited with closed-form.  NS5 PCM 384 max upsampling.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, Dr Tone said:

@MiskaIs it normal that closed-form needs way more headroom than the other filters?

 

I was playing one bad album that -5db was enough for xtr and minrinFIR but -9db was still getting limited with closed-form.  NS5 PCM 384 max upsampling.

 

Yes it is, probably that one contains some heavy clipping among other problems. poly-sinc and poly-sinc-short probably manage with less need for headroom for that recording.

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, brother love said:

Miska, Thank you for the ethernet switch recommendations. Looking forward to your findings with the Zyxel unit.

 

Do you have any recommendations/ findings re: cables for router/ switch/ PC server/ NAA connections? Do ethernet cable lengths (say 3 ft. or 6ft. versus 20 ft. length) factor into the equation any (performance/ quality)?

 

At least the Zyxel works, but no other results yet.  It has front panel switch to enable/disable 802.3az, so it is easy to check how much effect that has if one wants to experiment.

 

I use boring, completely standard CAT6 compliant cables. For NAA use, do NOT use STP cables or anything that has metal shield on the connector that could connect grounds of the NAA device and the switch. Generally, only use UTP cables unless you have a specific cable and careful design for using STP.

 

I use STP cables in few places where I know only the switch end is grounded, but not the wall socket or other end. This gives some shielding without risk of having ground currents.

 

It is better if cables don't have lot of extra length. And when switch is closer to the equipment and both support 802.3az it results in lower transmit powers on the cable and lower emitted noise to the surroundings.

 

The way I have things is that I have a switch in house's central patch bay. From there cabling goes to room wall sockets using CAT6. In each room there's a room specific switch (one or more) between the wall socket and devices. The link between room switch and the central switch needs to use higher transmit power because it's fairly long cable (still doesn't need full power). But the link between local room switch and audio equipment is just 0.5 - 2 m and uses lower transmit powers due to closer proximity.

 

[brother love]

Thanks so much Miska for the cable info & recommendations! 

 

In my case the mini PC NAA/ audio equipment is 20 ft. from router (& run under floor in crawl space to avoid longer 30 ft. run), & PC music server is 6 ft. away from router. I'm currently using Cat7 shielded ethernet cables.

 

So based on your recommendations ... if I add an ethernet switch, I assume it would be best located close to the mini PC NAA so a short  unshielded cable could be run between NAA & switch, with a longer shielded cable run to the router?  Would another ethernet switch then  be recommended between the router & PC server?  Obviously, I would prefer a single ethernet switch be close to the router & utilized for NAA & PC music server, but not sure how much that compromises performance utilizing shielded ethernet cables.

[Hammer]

22 hours ago, Hammer said:

Thanks...I'll investigate some more.  Looking at task manager, it appears HQPlayer listens to port TCP 4321.  I'll check if opening that solves the problem and report back.

 

That did the trick!  Have HQPlayer running on a 16 Core threadripper system and upsampling to DSD256.  Noticing that even with 16 physical cores available, only 6 is being used by HQPlayer.  Is there a cap on how many it will use?

[Miska]

29 minutes ago, Hammer said:

Noticing that even with 16 physical cores available, only 6 is being used by HQPlayer.  Is there a cap on how many it will use?

 

Not really, if you have "Multicore DSP" set to "auto" (grayed box) or "enabled" (checked box). But to some extent depends on your filter selection and such.

 

[Bob Stern]

How do I configure Icecast to stream to HQP Desktop over the LAN?

 

HQP fails to add anything to the playlist queue or play any audio in response to the following command:

 

/Applications/HQPlayerDesktop.app/Contents/MacOS/hqp-control 10.0.4.5 http://10.0.4.6:8000/ladio_stream.ogg

 

The Icecast server on the host is configured to transmit in Vorbis variable bit rate format at 44.1K sample rate.

 

Other clients on the HQP client machine (VLC, Firefox and Chrome) can play the audio at URL:  http://10.0.4.6:8000/ladio_stream.ogg

 

Do I need to reconfigure Icecast to change the stream format or add a header?

 

The HQP log shows:
& 2017/11/28 18:47:17 Playlist clear
& 2017/11/28 18:47:17 Stop...
& 2017/11/28 18:47:17 Set transport (240): 
  2017/11/28 18:47:17 Automatic output rate switching enabled
& 2017/11/28 18:47:17 Playlist add URI: http://10.0.4.6:8000/ladio_stream.ogg
# 2017/11/28 18:47:18 ReadFLACErrorCB(): lost sync
     (repeated 120 times in less than one second)
# 2017/11/28 18:47:18 ReadFLACErrorCB(): lost sync
# 2017/11/28 18:47:18 clPlaylist::AddURI("http://10.0.4.6:8000/ladio_stream.ogg"): clAudioTransport::GetTrackLength(): uSampleRate == 0

[bibo01]

52 minutes ago, Bob Stern said:

How do I configure Icecast to stream to HQP Desktop over the LAN?

 

HQP fails to add anything to the playlist queue or play any audio in response to the following command:

 

/Applications/HQPlayerDesktop.app/Contents/MacOS/hqp-control 10.0.4.5 http://10.0.4.6:8000/ladio_stream.ogg

 

The Icecast server on the host is configured to transmit in Vorbis variable bit rate format at 44.1K sample rate.

 

Other clients on the HQP client machine (VLC, Firefox and Chrome) can play the audio at URL:  http://10.0.4.6:8000/ladio_stream.ogg

 

Do I need to reconfigure Icecast to change the stream format or add a header?

 

The HQP log shows:
& 2017/11/28 18:47:17 Playlist clear
& 2017/11/28 18:47:17 Stop...
& 2017/11/28 18:47:17 Set transport (240): 
  2017/11/28 18:47:17 Automatic output rate switching enabled
& 2017/11/28 18:47:17 Playlist add URI: http://10.0.4.6:8000/ladio_stream.ogg
# 2017/11/28 18:47:18 ReadFLACErrorCB(): lost sync
     (repeated 120 times in less than one second)
# 2017/11/28 18:47:18 ReadFLACErrorCB(): lost sync
# 2017/11/28 18:47:18 clPlaylist::AddURI("http://10.0.4.6:8000/ladio_stream.ogg"): clAudioTransport::GetTrackLength(): uSampleRate == 0

I think that Vorbis variable bit rate format is lossy. I doubt that HQP handles that.

However, Miska knows better and will advice.

[Bob Stern]

40 minutes ago, bibo01 said:

I think that Vorbis variable bit rate format is lossy.

 

I just discovered that you're right!

 

I then tried Ogg PCM encoding but got a similar error from HQP.

 

I hope Jussi can recommend a suitable streaming server.  I cannot find a FLAC encoder for Icecast.  Czech radio d-dur used a complicated, customized mix of modules that I probably could not replicate.

http://archiv.cesnet.cz/doc/techzpravy/2008/using-flac-encoding/

[Miska]

2 hours ago, Bob Stern said:

I then tried Ogg PCM encoding but got a similar error from HQP.

 

I hope Jussi can recommend a suitable streaming server.  I cannot find a FLAC encoder for Icecast.  Czech radio d-dur used a complicated, customized mix of modules that I probably could not replicate.

http://archiv.cesnet.cz/doc/techzpravy/2008/using-flac-encoding/

 

OGG is just a container like MP4, AVI or MKV. It can contain pretty much anything.

 

FLAC codec itself supports OGG container. But you can also stream any of the other supported formats. Or just plain raw, but then you need some special HTTP headers to indicate what the raw data is.

 

[Dr Tone]

19 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Yes it is, probably that one contains some heavy clipping among other problems. poly-sinc and poly-sinc-short probably manage with less need for headroom for that recording.

 

 

I'm now disvovering more and more modern recordings that need >9db of head room with closed-form.

 

There has to be a point when data starts getting lossed with a too large amount of head room?  I really love how closed-form sounds but I'm not comfortable with 15db of headroom all the time as hqplayer is headless driven by Roon in my case.

 

Of course I could let those albums limit but that will always be in the back of my head when listening.

[jhwalker]

1 hour ago, Dr Tone said:

 

I'm now disvovering more and more modern recordings that need >9db of head room with closed-form.

 

There has to be a point when data starts getting lossed with a too large amount of head room?  I really love how closed-form sounds but I'm not comfortable with 15db of headroom all the time as hqplayer is headless driven by Roon in my case.

 

Of course I could let those albums limit but that will always be in the back of my head when listening.

 

It's odd - I've literally NEVER seen any limiting reported in my use of HQPlayer, regardless of what filters, etc., I use, and regardless of what source material.

I just tried again, setting max volume to 0db (i.e., turned off limiting protection completely) and using a modern electronic / dance recording that demonstrates absolutely maxed volume - still no limiting.

 

What type of material are you seeing that is causing you to have to select such a drastic head room setting?

[Dr Tone]

4 minutes ago, jhwalker said:

 

It's odd - I've literally NEVER seen any limiting reported in my use of HQPlayer, regardless of what filters, etc., I use, and regardless of what source material.

I just tried again, setting max volume to 0db (i.e., turned off limiting protection completely) and using a modern electronic / dance recording that demonstrates absolutely maxed volume - still no limiting.

 

What type of material are you seeing that is causing you to have to select such a drastic head room setting?

 

It's only with the closed-form filter every other filter is fine with normal amounts of headroom.

 

Xavier Rudd's latest studio album is the worst.  Dave Matthews albums will do it as well but not as bad.