GUTB Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Since when does 256 work over DoP? Also, your MBP almost certainly can't handle that filter and rate. Link to comment
RamUwe Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said: You may try to uncheck Multicore DSP (keep it gray) and use -2s filters. Checked or unchecked … that makes no difference as well as using -2s filters. Link to comment
RamUwe Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, GUTB said: Since when does 256 work over DoP? Since when doesn't it? It works with Audirvana and Roon. 7 minutes ago, GUTB said: Also, your MBP almost certainly can't handle that filter and rate. Thanks for your concern but I'm quite sure it'll work. Link to comment
GUTB Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Just now, RamUwe said: Since when doesn't it? It works with Audirvana and Roon. Thanks for your concern but I'm quite sure it'll work. I think someone probably lied to you. It happens alot. I don't think a mobile processor is going to be able to handle it, and stutters/lags/cutouts in sound is the classic symptom of that. Max they are 45 watts TDP, half that of a desktop equivalent. Try a lighter filter (-2 versions) and then try 128. Link to comment
RamUwe Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, GUTB said: I think someone probably lied to you. It happens alot. I don't think a mobile processor is going to be able to handle it, and stutters/lags/cutouts in sound is the classic symptom of that. Max they are 45 watts TDP, half that of a desktop equivalent. Try a lighter filter (-2 versions) and then try 128. What does the TDP have to do with the performance? My MacBook uses a 3.1GHz i7 Quad Core Kaby Lake. There should be enough power imho. The activity monitor shows that the cpu still has more capacity. And I say it again: It works in Audirvana and Roon. Link to comment
GUTB Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, RamUwe said: What does the TDP have to do with the performance? My MacBook uses a 3.1GHz i7 Quad Core Kaby Lake. There should be enough power imho. The activity monitor shows that the cpu still has more capacity. And I say it again: It works in Audirvana and Roon. I use a 7700K, which is much more powerful than a mobile processor and even that is pushing it when I use heavy filters in 256. It’s not enough for 512 with heavy filters. HQPlayer’s poly-sinc filters are VERY processor intensive, and why they sound so much better than other software. They’re not optimized for multi-threading either so resource monitoring will show they eat only a portion of the CPU but in reality they are maxing out a single thread. First try one of the poly-sinc*-2 filters. If no luck, select 128x48 as the rate. If your MBP can’t handle a light filter at 128 then I will agree something is going on. Link to comment
rickca Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 1 hour ago, RamUwe said: I don’t get dropouts and stutters using Audirvana and Roon. What could be the problem? The HQPlayer filters/modulators are different than those in A+ and Roon. Have a look at the individual CPU utilization of each of your 4 cores. Windows 10 shows this in Resource Monitor, I'm not sure what utility is appropriate on a Mac. Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs i7-6700K/Windows 10 --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's Link to comment
Miska Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 22 minutes ago, GUTB said: I use a 7700K, which is much more powerful than a mobile processor and even that is pushing it when I use heavy filters in 256. It’s not enough for 512 with heavy filters. HQPlayer’s poly-sinc filters are VERY processor intensive, and why they sound so much better than other software. They’re not optimized for multi-threading either so resource monitoring will show they eat only a portion of the CPU but in reality they are maxing out a single thread. Well, they are multi-core optimized, but 7700K is only quad-core, so HQPlayer is not trying to do too much in parallel. Remember that even though Windows shows 8 virtual cores for 7700K due to HyperThreading, but it has only 4 real ones that can actually do work. So HQPlayer won't try to put work on cores that don't actually exist. HyperThreading can still help on the many threads (1000+) that the OS deals with in general, by making context switching more efficient. HQPlayer has pretty good understanding of CPU topology... Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
lmitche Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 51 minutes ago, Miska said: HQPlayer has pretty good understanding of CPU topology... Understatement of the year! Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio Link to comment
Bob Stern Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 On 10/27/2017 at 2:43 AM, RamUwe said: ASDM7 causes stutters. I don't know why. DSD7 doesn't. Is it possible that you inadvertently selected AMSDM7 instead of ASDM7? The former does use a lot more CPU power. It would reduce confusion if Miska would choose less similar acronyms for these two modulation schemes, even acronyms that are less meaningful but easier to distinguish. Hint, hint. HQPlayer (on 3.8 GHz 8-core i7 iMac 2020) > NAA (on 2012 Mac Mini i7) > RME ADI-2 v2 > Benchmark AHB-2 > Thiel 3.7 Link to comment
LoryWiv Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 10 hours ago, Miska said: The difference is 11.2896 MHz vs 12.288 MHz output rate. ASIO driver on Windows prevents use of the 48k-base rates, but in all other environments those are available. When used together with "Auto rate family" it lowers CPU load, because simpler ratios are lighter to process. But quality-wise it doesn't matter much, 48k-base rate is 1 MHz higher at 256 ratio. Thank you, Miska. I actually see slightly higher CPU utilization with SDM using 48 x256 than 44.1 x256 and can't distinguish any sound quality difference, so I'll stick with the former. I appreciate your response! Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless) Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 2 hours ago, RamUwe said: Checked or unchecked … that makes no difference as well as using -2s filters. Just for your info: I copied your settings in my system with mac mini connected to iFI micro iDSD with USB cable. Everything plays just fine. Something goes wrong on your side. Try to disconnect USB cable, connect again and restart computer. Sometimes it helped me if something went wrong with HQ Player in the past, when I used upsampling to SDM. Now, when I play everything in PCM with optical cable I do not have any issues and like the sound much better. Link to comment
Bob Stern Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 3 hours ago, RamUwe said: I don’t get dropouts and stutters using Audirvana and Roon. What could be the problem? Apologies: I see from your screenshot that you did select ASDM7, not AMSDM7. HQP uses CPU more efficiently than Audirvana 2.6.8 for upsampling to DSD256 on my 2012 Mac Mini 4-core i7 (via DoP 1.0 on Audirvana and ASIO on HQP). HQP shows about 150% CPU usage in Activity Monitor compared to 250% for Audirvana. I never get dropouts from HQP, whereas I do get a dropout once or twice per hour in Audirvana, even upsampling to PCM rather than DSD. HQPlayer (on 3.8 GHz 8-core i7 iMac 2020) > NAA (on 2012 Mac Mini i7) > RME ADI-2 v2 > Benchmark AHB-2 > Thiel 3.7 Link to comment
ismewor Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bob Stern said: HQP shows about 150% CPU usage in Activity Monitor compared to 250% for Audirvana. Sorry but how can it exist more than 100% on cpu usage? Digital: Dac: Chord DAVE, Amp: MC275 Mono, Preamp: FirstSound, Source: Esoteric K01X, Cable: TaraLab GME interconnect,CAS: SOtM Trifecta Mod 75ohm MCI, TheLinearSolution TCXO Router Analog: SME 20/2, SME V, Skala, Esoteric C03 Phono Link to comment
Miska Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Just now, ismewor said: Sorry but how can it exist more than 100% on cpu usage? On many *nix style systems, the load is frequently metered in a different way. 100% CPU usage means one core worth of load. On a quad-core (without HyperThreading) 400% would mean full load. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
GUTB Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 23 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said: Just for your info: I copied your settings in my system with mac mini connected to iFI micro iDSD with USB cable. Everything plays just fine. Something goes wrong on your side. Try to disconnect USB cable, connect again and restart computer. Sometimes it helped me if something went wrong with HQ Player in the past, when I used upsampling to SDM. Now, when I play everything in PCM with optical cable I do not have any issues and like the sound much better. You’re not getting smooth playback with a Mini. Why are you lying? Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, GUTB said: You’re not getting smooth playback with a Mini. Why are you lying? Drink more water, it may help. Jud 1 Link to comment
RamUwe Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I did a short test. Fresh install of HQPlayer. One song, only one time playing. OS is HighSierra. For the particular current CPU load please see the attached screenshots. poly-sinc-2s = no stutter, no dropouts poly-sinc-shrt-mp-2s = no stutter, no dropouts poly-sinc-short-mp = 3 times stutter/dropout at the beginning, in the middle, and at the end Link to comment
ted_b Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 So this shows -2s as being solutions. Bigger question: how do they sound vs A+? "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
RamUwe Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Wait … Second run with same settings now poly-sinc-shrt-mp-2s has a stutter/dropout. That's frustrating Nota bene: poly-sinc-2s plays fine … Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, ted_b said: So this shows -2s as being solutions. Bigger question: how do they sound vs A+? In my case (mac mini, iFI micro iDSD) some poly-sinc filters, such as xtr worked only in -2s form, others worked without -2s, such as poly-sinc-hb or poly-sinc-ext. I prefer HQPlayer over A+, but this is a question of taste and listening habits. I also use wtf-play quite often recently. It sounds even better to my ears. Link to comment
GUTB Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said: In my case (mac mini, iFI micro iDSD) some poly-sinc filters, such as xtr worked only in -2s form, others worked without -2s, such as poly-sinc-hb or poly-sinc-ext. I prefer HQPlayer over A+, but this is a question of taste and listening habits. I also use wtf-play quite often recently. It sounds even better to my ears. The truth comes out, thank you. 13 minutes ago, RamUwe said: Wait … Second run with same settings now poly-sinc-shrt-mp-2s has a stutter/dropout. That's frustrating Okay, it sounds like your MBP is maxing out at this 256 rate. You have auto rate family checked so that should eliminate the wrong frequency family performance hit. I think HQP is periodically fighting with other processes for CPU resources. Sadly neither Fidelizer nor Audiophile Optomizer work on OSX. Is there a way to maximize the priority of OSX processes, remove unneeded ones, etc? This software might help us figure it out: http://etrecheck.com/ Link to comment
AnotherSpin Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 9 minutes ago, GUTB said: The truth comes out, thank you. Next time you jump into the accusations of lies read carefully other people posts. I replicated settings of RamUwe, which were poly-sync-short-mp, ASDM7, 48k x256 and played files without issue with the same DAC. I am open to get apologies from you. Jud 1 Link to comment
RamUwe Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 19 minutes ago, GUTB said: Okay, it sounds like your MBP is maxing out at this 256 rate. You have auto rate family checked so that should eliminate the wrong frequency family performance hit. I think HQP is periodically fighting with other processes for CPU resources. Sadly neither Fidelizer nor Audiophile Optomizer work on OSX. Is there a way to maximize the priority of OSX processes, remove unneeded ones, etc? This software might help us figure it out: http://etrecheck.com/ Sorry, no way. Audirvana has an optimizer and can maximize the process-priority. EtreCheck shows no issue, imho nothing problematic. Quote EtreCheck version: 3.4.6 (460) Report generated 2017-10-28 22:48:52 Download EtreCheck from https://etrecheck.com Runtime: 1:59 Performance: Excellent Click the [Lookup] links for more information from Apple Support Communities. Click the [Details] links for more information about that line. Problem: No problem - just checking Hardware Information: ⓘ MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017) [Technical Specifications] - [User Guide] - [Warranty & Service] MacBook Pro - model: MacBookPro14,3 1 3,1 GHz Intel Core i7 (i7-7920HQ) CPU: 4-core 16 GB RAM Not upgradeable BANK 0/DIMM0 8 GB LPDDR3 2133 MHz ok BANK 1/DIMM0 8 GB LPDDR3 2133 MHz ok Handoff/Airdrop2: supported Wireless: en0: 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac Battery: Health = Normal - Cycle count = 2 iCloud Quota: 4.99 GB available iCloud Status: One pending file Video Information: ⓘ Intel HD Graphics 630 - VRAM: 1536 MB Radeon Pro 560 - VRAM: 4 GB LG UltraFine 2560 x 1440 LG UltraFine 2560 x 1440 Disk Information: ⓘ APPLE SSD SM0512L disk0: (500,28 GB) (Solid State - TRIM: Yes) (disk0s1) <not mounted> [EFI]: 315 MB (disk0s2) <not mounted> [APFS Container]: 499.96 GB USB Information: ⓘ USB30Bus Generic 4-Port USB 2.0 Hub iFi (by AMR) iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio Realtek BillBoard Device Apple Inc. iBridge USB30Bus LG Electronics Inc. USB3.1 Hub hub_device LG Electronlcs Inc. LG UltraFine Display Camera LG Electronics Inc. USB2.1 Hub hub_device LG Electronics Inc. USB Controls LG Electronics Inc. USB Audio USB30Bus LG Electronics Inc. USB3.1 Hub GODO USB3.1 External HDD SSD 850 PRO 512G disk2: (512,11 GB) EFI (disk2s1 - MS-DOS FAT32) <not mounted> [EFI]: 210 MB Backup SSD (disk2s2 - ExFAT) /Volumes/Backup SSD : 511.90 GB (466.75 GB free) hub_device LG Electronlcs Inc. LG UltraFine Display Camera LG Electronics Inc. USB2.1 Hub hub_device LG Electronics Inc. USB Controls LG Electronics Inc. USB Audio USB31Bus USB31Bus Generic 4-Port USB 3.0 Hub Generic USB3.0-CRW Thunderbolt Information: ⓘ Apple Inc. thunderbolt_bus_1 LG Electronics UltraFine 5K Apple Inc. thunderbolt_bus_0 LG Electronics UltraFine 5K Virtual disks: ⓘ Macintosh HD (disk1s1 - APFS) / [Startup]: 499.96 GB (467.82 GB free) Physical disk: disk0s2 499.96 GB (467.82 GB free) (disk1s2) <not mounted> [Preboot]: 499.96 GB Physical disk: disk0s2 499.96 GB (disk1s3) <not mounted> [Recovery]: 499.96 GB Physical disk: disk0s2 499.96 GB (disk1s4) /private/var/vm [VM]: 499.96 GB Physical disk: disk0s2 499.96 GB System Software: ⓘ macOS High Sierra 10.13 (17A405) - Time since boot: about 3 hours Gatekeeper: ⓘ Mac App Store and identified developers System Launch Agents: ⓘ [not loaded] 7 Apple tasks [loaded] 172 Apple tasks [running] 109 Apple tasks System Launch Daemons: ⓘ [not loaded] 37 Apple tasks [loaded] 173 Apple tasks [running] 118 Apple tasks Launch Daemons: ⓘ [running] com.bombich.ccchelper.plist (Bombich Software, Inc. - installed 2017-10-19) [Lookup] [loaded] com.microsoft.autoupdate.helper.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2017-10-14) [Lookup] [loaded] com.microsoft.office.licensingV2.helper.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2015-09-11) [Lookup] [loaded] com.zeroonetwenty.BlueHarvestHelper630.plist (Ross Tulloch - installed 2017-10-14) [Lookup] User Login Items: ⓘ Alfred 3 Programm (/Applications/Alfred 3.app) Moom Programm (/Applications/Moom.app) iTunesHelper Programm (Apple, Inc. - installed 2017-10-14) (/Applications/iTunes.app/Contents/MacOS/iTunesHelper.app) CCC User Agent Programm (Bombich Software, Inc. - installed 2017-10-19) (/Applications/Carbon Copy Cloner.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/CCC User Agent.app) BlueHarvest Programm (/Applications/BlueHarvest.app) CardhopLauncher SMLoginItem - Hidden (Apple, Inc. - installed 2017-10-26) (/Applications/Cardhop.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/CardhopLauncher.app) UnclutterStartupLauncher SMLoginItem - Hidden (Apple, Inc. - installed 2017-10-18) (/Applications/Unclutter.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/UnclutterStartupLauncher.app) Fantastical Launcher SMLoginItem - Hidden (Apple, Inc. - installed 2017-10-24) (/Applications/Fantastical 2.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/Fantastical Launcher.app) 1Password Helper URL SMLoginItem - Hidden (Apple, Inc. - installed 2017-10-14) (/Applications/1Password.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/2BUA8C4S2C.com.agilebits.onepassword-osx-helper.app) LaunchAtLoginHelper SMLoginItem - Hidden (Apple, Inc. - installed 2017-10-14) (/Applications/Amphetamine.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/LaunchAtLoginHelper.app) Internet Plug-ins: ⓘ QuickTime Plugin: 7.7.3 (installed 2017-10-03) Safari Extensions: ⓘ [enabled] 1Password - AgileBits - https://agilebits.com/onepassword (installed 2017-10-14) 3rd Party Preference Panes: ⓘ None Time Machine: ⓘ Time Machine not configured! Top Processes by CPU: ⓘ 13% kernel_task 9% WindowServer 4% Activity Monitor 3% sysmond 1% com.apple.WebKit.WebContent Top Processes by Memory: ⓘ 1.12 GB kernel_task 637 MB softwareupdated 314 MB HQPlayerDesktop 293 MB WindowServer 270 MB Activity Monitor Top Processes by Network Use: ⓘ Input Output Process name 238 KB 75 KB com.apple.WebKit.Networking 14 KB 105 KB biometrickitd 66 KB 31 KB mDNSResponder 8 KB 13 KB apsd 13 KB 3 KB netbiosd Top Processes by Energy Use: ⓘ 4.12 Activity Monitor 3.06 com.apple.WebKit.WebContent 1.50 WindowServer 0.48 airportd 0.32 bluetoothd Virtual Memory Information: ⓘ 9.71 GB Available RAM 6.90 GB Free RAM 6.29 GB Used RAM 2.81 GB Cached files 0 B Swap Used Software installs (last 30 days): ⓘ 1Password: 6.8.3 (installed 2017-10-14) Amphetamine: 3.0.2 (installed 2017-10-14) EasyFind: 4.9.3 (installed 2017-10-14) Magnet: 2.1.0 (installed 2017-10-14) Moom: 3.2.9 (installed 2017-10-14) Yoink: 3.4 (installed 2017-10-14) Fantastical: 2.4.2 (installed 2017-10-14) MoneyMoney: 2.2.18 (installed 2017-10-14) Microsoft Office 2016 für Mac: (installed 2017-10-14) Microsoft AutoUpdate: (installed 2017-10-14) Microsoft AutoUpdate: (installed 2017-10-14) Microsoft Excel for Mac: (installed 2017-10-14) Microsoft Word for Mac: (installed 2017-10-14) Microsoft OneNote for Mac: (installed 2017-10-14) Microsoft PowerPoint for Mac: (installed 2017-10-14) Microsoft Outlook for Mac: (installed 2017-10-14) MoneyMoney: 2.3.0 (installed 2017-10-16) Fantastical: 2.4.3 (installed 2017-10-18) Unclutter: 2.1.4 (installed 2017-10-18) ChronoSync: (installed 2017-10-19) ChronoSync Deinstallationsprogramm: (installed 2017-10-19) Moom: 3.2.10 (installed 2017-10-19) Spark: 1.5.1 (installed 2017-10-19) Airmail: 3.5.2 (installed 2017-10-19) Spark: 1.5.1 (installed 2017-10-19) AutoMounter: 1.5.6 (installed 2017-10-20) PDF Expert: 2.2.10 (installed 2017-10-20) Spark: 1.5.1 (installed 2017-10-20) PDF Expert: 2.2.10 (installed 2017-10-20) Fantastical: 2.4.4 (installed 2017-10-24) BusyContacts: 1.2.1 (installed 2017-10-25) Spark: 1.5.2 (installed 2017-10-26) FullContact: 1.16 (installed 2017-10-26) Cardhop: 1.0.1 (installed 2017-10-26) Install information may not be complete. Diagnostics Events (last 3 days for minor events): ⓘ 2017-10-28 18:57:44 Last shutdown cause: 3 - Hard shutdown 2017-10-28 18:04:32 Carbon Copy Cloner.app Crash [Open] Nota bene: poly-sinc-xtr-2s plays without stutter/dropout as well. Link to comment
GUTB Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 9 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said: Next time you jump into the accusations of lies read carefully other people posts. I replicated settings of RamUwe, which were poly-sync-short-mp, ASDM7, 48k x256 and played files without issue with the same DAC. I am open to get apologies from you. The truth can’t be stopped. Please post your CPU details so we can compare with the MBP. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now