HQ Player

[mirekti]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I can see one problem in your Settings. You have set rate limit to 44.1x512. Does the rate drop-down list in main window (where you have not set "Auto") even include 48-base rates at all? If not, you naturally cannot use auto rate family for 48-base files!

 

 

Correct, it does not include 48-base files, but the problem is even if uncheck Auto rate, the main window shows Auto. I’d like to keep it fixed 44.1 x512. 

When 44.1 x512 is set instead of Auto in the main window than both 44.1 16 bit and 192 24 bit can play.

[tboooe]

1 hour ago, mirekti said:

 

Correct, it does not include 48-base files, but the problem is even if uncheck Auto rate, the main window shows Auto. I’d like to keep it fixed 44.1 x512. 

When 44.1 x512 is set instead of Auto in the main window than both 44.1 16 bit and 192 24 bit can play.

I dont have Auto Rate checked and sometimes in the drop down I dont have any options.  Other times I can see some options.  I have no idea why this is happening but the max rate I have in settings always seems to work.

[Miska]

5 hours ago, mirekti said:

 

Correct, it does not include 48-base files, but the problem is even if uncheck Auto rate, the main window shows Auto. I’d like to keep it fixed 44.1 x512. 

When 44.1 x512 is set instead of Auto in the main window than both 44.1 16 bit and 192 24 bit can play.

 

"Auto" and "auto rate family" are two different things. As long as you use filter that can convert between families you can keep the 44.1 x512 limit or set it fixed. But with the single-pass filter you have selected, it will be pretty heavy to go from 48-base to 44.1 x512 (and some amount of initialization time).

 

[RubenV]

Just tried to upgrade my control pc from WS2012 to WS2016. Installing WS2016 went well, same for AO(beta) and HQPlayer. However, after installing the newest 3.18 HQPlayer desktop I can't find the NAA on the control pc.

 

(I didn't made any changes to the audio pc, which did function flawlessly before)

 

The control pc has 2 nic's, one onboard and one Intel Gigabit CT Desktop Adapter pci card. If I turn on the Audio PC with NAA, NAA lists the correct IP address of the nic card (intel Gigabit). But I can't select the Amanero device under backend (which displays the NAA). The onboard nic on the control pc is for connecting to the router, and the onboard nic in the audio pc is directly attached to the Intel Gigabit nic in the control.

 

I suspect some settings are wrong on the Control-pc end. I have installed DevManView and see that both nic's are connected and not disabled. What else could I check to counter this problem?

[ted_b]

Did You turn off any network settings via AO?  I'm not sure a direct private connection (NIC to NIC) is something HQPlayer can deal with without some sort of bridging.  But I am not an expert here.

[RubenV]

5 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Did You turn off any network settings via AO?  I'm not sure a direct private connection (NIC to NIC) is something HQPlayer can deal with without some sort of bridging.  But I am not an expert here.

 

No, I kept all network related settings open through AO.

[tboooe]

17 minutes ago, RubenV said:

 

No, I kept all network related settings open through AO.

Are the two nics bridged?  When you were using Server 2012 did you have it Minimal Server or Core mode?  There is no Minimal Server mode in Server 2016 and bridged nics is not supported in Core mode.

[mirekti]

23 hours ago, Miska said:

 

"Auto" and "auto rate family" are two different things. As long as you use filter that can convert between families you can keep the 44.1 x512 limit or set it fixed. But with the single-pass filter you have selected, it will be pretty heavy to go from 48-base to 44.1 x512 (and some amount of initialization time).

 

 

When I start HqPlayer, the main window has Auto and I cannot choose between 44.1 x256  and 44.1 x512. 
Only when I start playing a song and stop it then I can change from Auto to 44.1 x512.
The problem is if the playlist contains 44.1 16 bit file, and the next one is 192 24 bit the music will stop. 
If I set it to 44.1 x512 upfront then the switching tracks goes seamlessly. However, I am not able to do so or make it default. It always shows Auto and nothing can be chosen unless I played something first.
Attached is the log which describes my case (not sure if these steps are visible in the log). 
1. Play song, Stop
2. Manuall change of Auto to 44.1 x512 is possible now. 

HqPlayer.log

 

EDIT: I am able to change from Auto to 44.1 x512 when HqPlayer starts, but it requires something in the playlist. However, it would be nice if I could keep it fixed and not manually go and change from Auto to 44.1 x512

[mirekti]

32 minutes ago, mirekti said:

EDIT: I am able to change from Auto to 44.1 x512 when HqPlayer starts, but it requires something in the playlist. However, it would be nice if I could keep it fixed and not manually go and change from Auto to 44.1 x512

 

EDIT2: I was trying to pull the log where 44.1 16 to 192 24 in playlist fails, but for some reason it is working fine when set to auto now. Then I realized I unchecked Auto rate family in Settings.
If I enable Auto rate family I can see following in the log:
2017/10/10 12:49:08 No suitable output rate for 192000, stop

So I will keep this unchecked. 

[mirekti]

1 hour ago, mirekti said:

 

EDIT2: I was trying to pull the log where 44.1 16 to 192 24 in playlist fails, but for some reason it is working fine when...

@Miska

EDIT3: There is one more thing I am confused about. 
If I start a playlist with 44.1 16 and the next song is 192 24 playback is ok, however, if after 192 24 again comes 44.1 16 then I get a pop because the engine stops and needs to initialize again. So from 16 -> 24 no break, from 24 -> 16 pop and initialization. 
Sorry for so many post as if I am spamming, but trying to figure out how to get a playlist with both to work seamlessly.
Attached is the log for the above scenario.   

HQPlayer.log

 

Also, is the pop I hear something wrong with the drivers or HqPlayer?
Should USB drivers release sound resources upon stop is pressed in HqPlayer? As already written before, if I close the player from Windows, the drivers release the resources and there is no pop at all. To me this sounds as if stop instruction removes the voltage while the channel is still open. Not sure if the last is the correct phrasing, but it reminds me of old days when shutting down (or powering on) PC whilst the external speakers are plugged to headphones jack and still turned on, the pop reminds everyone I am still at home.

[sig8]

I have dual port fiber NIC's in HQPC, and NAA, one port from each is connected to the switch, another is directly connected. I have disabled some services on the ports which are directly connected per AO manual. When HQPC connects to NAA, I see that the direct connection port is connecting based on the connection request IP address. This just happens. I did not try to do any bridging. This was originally set up to be a 2-pc Jplay machines, therefore I changed settings per AO manual.

 

I also get no selections under sample rate, just Auto, you have to play something and come back for selections to be available. I think just started with 3.18.

[Miska]

2 hours ago, mirekti said:

If I start a playlist with 44.1 16 and the next song is 192 24 playback is ok, however, if after 192 24 again comes 44.1 16 then I get a pop because the engine stops and needs to initialize again. So from 16 -> 24 no break, from 24 -> 16 pop and initialization. 
Sorry for so many post as if I am spamming, but trying to figure out how to get a playlist with both to work seamlessly.
 

Also, is the pop I hear something wrong with the drivers or HqPlayer?

 

Number of bits doesn't matter, but every time the source sampling rate changes, the engine needs to reinitialize...

 

Pop is usually because DAC doesn't correctly engage output mute, or alternatively driver doing something strange. But the audio interface is not stopped and restarted between the tracks in those cases unless you have enabled "auto rate family" or use a filter that doesn't allow conversion between rate families AND you have output rate set to "Auto".

 

[mirekti]

Ok, I'll see what the DAC maker and USB company have to say. Thanks.

 

31 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Number of bits doesn't matter, but every time the source sampling rate changes, the engine needs to reinitialize...

 

 

For some reason in my case when songs in playlist go from 44.1 to 192 there is no re initialization, it just proceeds, but the other way around, 192 to 44.1. Could you check if that's the case for you too, please?

This is from my log, you can see it happens in a second:

2017/10/10 13:46:42 Seek to: 174
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 End of track
& 2017/10/10 13:46:48 Next
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Rate or blocksize change triggered
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Rate: 192000, block size: 20480, frame size: 2560
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Block size: 20480 (sample: 4)
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Oversampling: short min phase poly
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Modulator: adaptive seventh order m-bit
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Integrator: IIR
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Playback engine ratio: 117.6
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Channel 0 delay 0 samples, gain 1
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Channel 1 delay 0 samples, gain 1
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Multichannel speaker processing disabled
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Initialization complete, starting audio engine
& 2017/10/10 13:47:06 Seek to: 19

 

 But when it goes back from 192 to 44.1 it takes 33 seconds.

2017/10/10 13:47:13 Next
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Rate or blocksize change triggered
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Rate: 44100, block size: 4704, frame size: 588
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Block size: 4704 (sample: 4)
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Oversampling: short min phase poly
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Modulator: adaptive seventh order m-bit
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Integrator: IIR
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Playback engine ratio: 512
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Channel 0 delay 0 samples, gain 1
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Channel 1 delay 0 samples, gain 1
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Multichannel speaker processing disabled
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Initialization complete, starting audio engine

Here are my settings:

 

 

 

[Miska]

30 minutes ago, mirekti said:

For some reason in my case when songs in playlist go from 44.1 to 192 there is no re initialization, it just proceeds, but the other way around, 192 to 44.1. Could you check if that's the case for you too, please?

This is from my log, you can see it happens in a second:

  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Rate or blocksize change triggered
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Initialization complete, starting audio engine
 

 But when it goes back from 192 to 44.1 it takes 33 seconds.

  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Rate or blocksize change triggered
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Initialization complete, starting audio engine

 

Looks correct to me, same things happen both ways? If the last playback time before the first was from same rate to same rate, then some of the initialization data is cached.

 

So if you play some 44.1k content, then stop and then play some more 44.1k content. The second initialization is faster.

[RubenV]

17 hours ago, tboooe said:

Are the two nics bridged?  When you were using Server 2012 did you have it Minimal Server or Core mode?  There is no Minimal Server mode in Server 2016 and bridged nics is not supported in Core mode.

 

I don't fully understand with you mean with "bridged". I was using WS2012 Core for the audio pc (this one is still up and running). For the control pc I used WS2012 with GUI.

When I start the control pc, I can see the correct IP address in NAA. However, I can't figure out how to adjust the settings for the network adapters on the control pc (I tried with DevManView).

 

13 hours ago, sig8 said:

I have dual port fiber NIC's in HQPC, and NAA, one port from each is connected to the switch, another is directly connected. I have disabled some services on the ports which are directly connected per AO manual. When HQPC connects to NAA, I see that the direct connection port is connecting based on the connection request IP address. This just happens. I did not try to do any bridging. This was originally set up to be a 2-pc Jplay machines, therefore I changed settings per AO manual.

 

I also get no selections under sample rate, just Auto, you have to play something and come back for selections to be available. I think just started with 3.18.

 

What are you using as OS? WS2012 or 2016? I also had the dual JPlay setup. But after buying a dac with a chipless dsd engine, I tried HQPlayer. What version of HQPlayer are you currently using? Do you suggest to roll back to another version?

[terrys99]

hi all!

I have tried every type of setting in hqplayer   and i cannot hear any difference what so ever.

and yet many other are convinced that there is an amazing difference.

iam converting pcm to dsd, and dsd 64 to 128 ,

 

my dac is irdac 2,

anyone give me any pointers?

surely i should hear atleast a slight change?

 

it isnt that i have a poor cpu ect.

 

i7 5960

gpu: titan black

mem: 32g

 

the irdac 2 can play pcm up to 384,  dsd native up to 128.

 

 

 

 

[RubenV]

After struggeling a bit to get HQPlayer to work I detached the network cable between the control and audio pc, and connected the audio pc directly to the router, and tadaa: I could select the Amanero device and HQPlayer worked.

 

So there must be something wrong with the network settings I guess.

 

These are the current settings on the control pc (with dual nic and WS2016 core)

 

These are the settings of the audio pc (only one onboard nic, and running WS2012R2 core):

 

Should I enable DHCP for both nic's?

[ted_b]

As I posted earlier, HQP NAA is not Jplay dual pc.  There is no control/audio pc setup with private nic-to-nic communication.  You need to bridge them in order to use it this way.  NAA needs to see the network.

 

Bridging is chatted about several places; start here maybe, first post, half way down:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/

 

[RubenV]

24 minutes ago, ted_b said:

As I posted earlier, HQP NAA is not Jplay dual pc.  There is no control/audio pc setup with private nic-to-nic communication.  You need to bridge them in order to use it this way.  NAA needs to see the network.

 

Bridging is chatted about several places; start here maybe, first post, half way down:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/

 

 

Thanks Ted! I will try the instructions when I get home. Would this scenario also work with ws2016 on both machines, taking into account tboooe’s reaction regarding nic’s not being bridgeable in core mode on both systems.

[tboooe]

11 minutes ago, RubenV said:

Thanks Ted! I will try the instructions when I get home. Would this scenario also work with ws2016 on both machines, taking into account tboooe’s reaction regarding nic’s not being bridgeable in core mode on both systems.

I have confirmed this with Phil (AO dev).  This is one of the reasons why I have not upgraded to Server 2016 and why I run 2012 in Minial Server mode.  The other option of course is to run Server 2016 in GUI mode which as I understand it is comparable to 2012 in core mode.  The NAA machine of course can be core mode which is what I am doing now.

 

BTW, I thought you could a direct connection between HQP and NAA like Jplay dual pc configuaration as long as the second nic on the HQP machine is set up on a separate subnet and the NAA machine has a fixed ip on the same subnet.  The reason why I bridge is so that I can still remote desktop into my NAA machine for troubleshooting purposes, otherwise I would need a monitor and keyboard connected to the HQP or NAA machine.

[mirekti]

16 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Looks correct to me, same things happen both ways? If the last playback time before the first was from same rate to same rate, then some of the initialization data is cached.

 

So if you play some 44.1k content, then stop and then play some more 44.1k content. The second initialization is faster.

 

They look the same at the beginning. The first example is going from 44.1 to 192, the second one from 192 to 44.1.
I intentionally created a playlist where songs where odd songs are 44.1 and even are 192. 

44.1->192

2017/10/10 13:46:42 Seek to: 174
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 End of track
& 2017/10/10 13:46:48 Next
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Rate or blocksize change triggered
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Rate: 192000, block size: 20480, frame size: 2560
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Block size: 20480 (sample: 4)
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Oversampling: short min phase poly
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Modulator: adaptive seventh order m-bit
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Integrator: IIR
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Playback engine ratio: 117.6          -> this is lower then when going from 192 to 44.1, it happens immediately 
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Channel 0 delay 0 samples, gain 1
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Channel 1 delay 0 samples, gain 1
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Multichannel speaker processing disabled
  2017/10/10 13:46:48 Initialization complete, starting audio engine
& 2017/10/10 13:47:06 Seek to: 19
 

192->44.1

2017/10/10 13:47:13 Next
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Rate or blocksize change triggered
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Rate: 44100, block size: 4704, frame size: 588
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Block size: 4704 (sample: 4)
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Oversampling: short min phase poly
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Modulator: adaptive seventh order m-bit
  2017/10/10 13:47:13 Integrator: IIR
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Playback engine ratio: 512    -> this is higher then when going from 44.1 to 192, it happens 33 seconds later
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Channel 0 delay 0 samples, gain 1
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Channel 1 delay 0 samples, gain 1
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Multichannel speaker processing disabled
  2017/10/10 13:47:46 Initialization complete, starting audio engine

 

Attached log has following:

44.1 -> 2017/10/10 13:44:59 Playlist add URI: file://D:\00 Vocal Jazz\Noah Jones\Norah Jones - Little Broken Hearts (2012)\(7) 4 Broken Hearts - Norah Jones.flac
  2017/10/10 13:44:59 Automatic output rate switching enabled
192 -> & 2017/10/10 13:45:08 Playlist add URI: file://D:\00 Vocal Jazz\Noah Jones\Norah Jones - Come Away With Me (2012) [HDtracks] 24Bit 192 FLAC Beolab1700\3-Cold Cold Heart.flac
44.1 -> & 2017/10/10 13:45:22 Playlist add URI: file://D:\00 Vocal Jazz\Noah Jones\Norah Jones - Little Broken Hearts (2012)\(7) 4 Broken Hearts - Norah Jones.flac
192 -> & 2017/10/10 13:45:27 Playlist add URI: file://D:\00 Vocal Jazz\Noah Jones\Norah Jones - Come Away With Me (2012) [HDtracks] 24Bit 192 FLAC Beolab1700\3-Cold Cold Heart.flac

 

I played first song (44.1), sought to end of it, it switched to 192 song (immediatelly), sought to endo of it, it switched back to 44.1, but it had to initialize it again. 
In summary, whenever a song in the playlist switches from 44.1 to 192 it is done immediately, but when it goes from 192 to 44.1 then it needs to initialize again. 

 

BTW. You mentioned in one of the replies that HQPlayer can use cashed initialization. 
Would it make sense that HqPlayer does initialization for the fist song in the playlist (let's say 44.1), and then whilst the song is playing, it initialize for other rates in the background so it is instantly ready in cash if the rate changes? 

 

 

HQPlayer.log

[m3lraaHnevetS]

@Miska which settings do you recommend for PCM1795? I read your blogpost on this DAC chip but can not tell from that which filter to choose...

Tia! 

[sig8]

12 hours ago, RubenV said:

What are you using as OS? WS2012 or 2016? I also had the dual JPlay setup. But after buying a dac with a chipless dsd engine, I tried HQPlayer. What version of HQPlayer are you currently using? Do you suggest to roll back to another version?

I am using Win 10, shouldn't be any different for Server 12 or 16.

 

9 hours ago, ted_b said:

As I posted earlier, HQP NAA is not Jplay dual pc.  There is no control/audio pc setup with private nic-to-nic communication.  You need to bridge them in order to use it this way.  NAA needs to see the network.

 

Bridging is chatted about several places; start here maybe, first post, half way down:

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/

 

I was using these two pc's in Jplay 2-pc setup. Without changing anything when I switched to HQP/NAA, my NAA makes a direct connection to HQP machine without bridging, that is the point I am trying to make. All poorts have static IP. Direct connection ports have been setup per AO manual for 2-pc direct connection ports.

 

If you have two ports on HQP and NAA, connect them directly, configure per AO manual, watch NAA screen and see request is coming from which port. This way you have connection without going to switch. 

[tboooe]

11 minutes ago, sig8 said:

I was using these two pc's in Jplay 2-pc setup. Without changing anything when I switched to HQP/NAA, my NAA makes a direct connection to HQP machine without bridging, that is the point I am trying to make. All poorts have static IP. Direct connection ports have been setup per AO manual for 2-pc direct connection ports.

Did you doublecheck the second port on the HQP nic to make sure it is on a different subnet that matches the subnet on the NAA nic?  Perhaps when upgrading to Server 2016 things got reset.

[Miska]

8 hours ago, mirekti said:

In summary, whenever a song in the playlist switches from 44.1 to 192 it is done immediately, but when it goes from 192 to 44.1 then it needs to initialize again. 

 

As you can see from the message, it reinitializes for all rate changes. Initialization time varies depending on different factors. This is normal...

 

8 hours ago, mirekti said:

Would it make sense that HqPlayer does initialization for the fist song in the playlist (let's say 44.1), and then whilst the song is playing, it initialize for other rates in the background so it is instantly ready in cash if the rate changes?

 

Only if you don't mind lot of stuttering while playback is going on... There are usually not too many spare CPU cycles while playback is going on.