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10 hours ago, bibo01 said:

Regarding MUTE at sampling rate change, this is slightly more complex. It also depends on the different player - some send a mute signal whilst other send a sequence of zeros only (@Miska, what about HQPlayer?) - and DAC implementation (mosfet, relay,...). 

 

As discussed on the other thread, problem is that the MUTE must be asserted minimum for first and last 50 ms of DSD data. He fixed this with the le1/be1 firmware version, but as side effect the DSD indication stopped working so it was never indicating DSD output regardless of input (DoP or native DSD). Since DSC1 unmutes output only when MUTE is off and there is DSD indication, the "fixed" firmware never output any sound. With the firmware version that didn't have the mute fix (le/be), the DSD indication was working but of course it was loud at start/stop because the mute time window was missing. DSC1 (as well as DAC8 DSD) uses a relay, but the pull/release time of the relay is within about 1 ms so it is so much sorter than the required mute period that it doesn't make any difference.

 

HQPlayer sends DSD silence. But Linux kernel was sending zeros in some cases, and that has been fixed now.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

As discussed on the other thread, problem is that the MUTE must be asserted minimum for first and last 50 ms of DSD data. He fixed this with the le1/be1 firmware version, but as side effect the DSD indication stopped working so it was never indicating DSD output regardless of input (DoP or native DSD). Since DSC1 unmutes output only when MUTE is off and there is DSD indication, the "fixed" firmware never output any sound. With the firmware version that didn't have the mute fix (le/be), the DSD indication was working but of course it was loud at start/stop because the mute time window was missing. DSC1 (as well as DAC8 DSD) uses a relay, but the pull/release time of the relay is within about 1 ms so it is so much sorter than the required mute period that it doesn't make any difference.

 

HQPlayer sends DSD silence. But Linux kernel was sending zeros in some cases, and that has been fixed now.

Thanks. I'll pass it on.

I suppose your DSC1 takes power from USB. If you turn it off/on, does it disconnect from nad?

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2 hours ago, bibo01 said:

I suppose your DSC1 takes power from USB. If you turn it off/on, does it disconnect from nad?

 

Yes, the Amanero runs off the USB power so powering down the DAC doesn't cause the device to disappear from USB bus.  The DAC itself is powered from a linear PSU.

 

This is just like for example iFi iDSD Micro.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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8 hours ago, lmitche said:

Jussi, you may want to consider adding DSD silence to the "X out" button if HQplayer is in Native DSD state.  I triggered the safety circuit on my amp yesterday when I inadvertently "x-ed" out of HQplayer.

 

It does, but when the process exits everything else is up to the driver to decide what it wants to do.

 

What DAC did you have and on what OS?

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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14 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, the Amanero runs off the USB power so powering down the DAC doesn't cause the device to disappear from USB bus.  The DAC itself is powered from a linear PSU.

 

This is just like for example iFi iDSD Micro.

 

Good!. So the disconnection problem occurs with DAC that have Amanero powered internally.

 

PS: Tomorrow Amanero is going to receive a DAC directly from T&A to test on it...good for development.   

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Is there anything that could be done for the case where (as I often do) one clicks on another song to select it during the last few seconds of fadeout from the previously played song?  (And if there is anything that could be done, would you wish to do it? ;) )

 

I have a preamp so my speakers aren't threatened, but I can hear a (mild) thump in this case.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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6 hours ago, lmitche said:

IFI microIDSD on win 10

 

OK, not that I would use it often that way I don't remember encountering such with the windows driver. Assuming you are using ASIO driver... Although it is otherwise noisy DAC, for example having quite a bit of turn-on pop. Maybe it doesn't have output mute circuitry or it is just not operating very well.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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On 2017-03-28 at 4:17 PM, Miska said:

 

Probably because GPU is not fast enough. If the GPU is slower than CPU then that's what happens. It of course frees CPU time, but if it does that and cannot meet the delivery deadlines while doing so you get only part of the audio.

 

 

Problem went away with the 1080ti, now just waiting for the sms-200 that will hopefully work with my DAC at native DSD256.

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

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5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

OK, not that I would use it often that way I don't remember encountering such with the windows driver. Assuming you are using ASIO driver... Although it is otherwise noisy DAC, for example having quite a bit of turn-on pop. Maybe it doesn't have output mute circuitry or it is just not operating very well.

 

Yes, running ASIO here. It's noisy between tracks of different resolutions when switching out of native dsd mode. Going into native dsd is quiet.

Using file/exit or x-ing out of Hqplayer before to the mode switch to pcm creates a devastating zero db pop.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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Fantastic forum for a newbie like me to HQ Player, 2 questions for those more seasoned then I with this software:

 

1.       I am enjoying HQPlayer greatly with my iFi iDSD Micro., and appreciate improved sound quality when outputting FLAC to DSD playback. There are several interesting discussions on this site suggesting the results of  software based upsampling and / or conversion may vary DAC to DAC, depending upon the DAC chip's internal upsampling and conversion algorithms. I am considering upgrading my iFi DAC to Matrix X-Sabre Pro (Dual ESS9038) or possibly Gustard A20H (Dual AK4497) if funds are too tight and am curious if anyone has thoughts or experience as to how HQ Player might interact with these.

2.       When using HQ Player to output PCM to SDM/DSD there is a substantial decrease in volume, even w/6 db gain enabled. This does not occur when playing native format DSD file w/o conversion. It is inconvenient to adjust volume depending upon output format and potentially a blast to the ear if I forget when change SDM to PCM….any correction available?

 

Thanks for the vast wealth of information on this forum, hope my questions aren't duplicative or too newbie-esque.

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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10 hours ago, lmitche said:

Using file/exit or x-ing out of Hqplayer before to the mode switch to pcm creates a devastating zero db pop.

 

"Nice" driver/DAC feature... It should be quiet even if the application crashes... Most of my use of iDSD Micro is on Linux and now with the kernel fix it is not bad even if I just go and kill HQPlayer while playing. Because that happens quite often when developing... :/

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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4 hours ago, LoryWiv said:

2.       When using HQ Player to output PCM to SDM/DSD there is a substantial decrease in volume, even w/6 db gain enabled. This does not occur when playing native format DSD file w/o conversion. It is inconvenient to adjust volume depending upon output format and potentially a blast to the ear if I forget when change SDM to PCM….any correction available?

 

 

The default gain is recommended -3 dBFS for PCM to DSD. I would recommend using the same also for PCM mode, although I don't know why one would use PCM mode at all... ;)

 

Anyway, due to the DAC chip implementation the output level in DSD is anyway about -3 dB compared to PCM if both are 0 dB reference level in digital domain. The exact amount depends on the selected DSD analog filter. Usually DACs should be about 3 dB quieter with DSD because DSD in turn allow +3.15 dB digital peak level while PCM technically cannot exceed 0 dB. Otherwise the DAC's analog stage could run into clipping when encountering such DSD levels exceeding 0 dB. ESS Sabre chips try to use same level for both, so it may result in clipping at full scale signals... For this reason, HQPlayer prefers not to output DSD signals exceeding 0 dB reference level.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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9 hours ago, Miska said:

 

The default gain is recommended -3 dBFS for PCM to DSD. I would recommend using the same also for PCM mode, although I don't know why one would use PCM mode at all... ;)

 

Anyway, due to the DAC chip implementation the output level in DSD is anyway about -3 dB compared to PCM if both are 0 dB reference level in digital domain. The exact amount depends on the selected DSD analog filter. Usually DACs should be about 3 dB quieter with DSD because DSD in turn allow +3.15 dB digital peak level while PCM technically cannot exceed 0 dB. Otherwise the DAC's analog stage could run into clipping when encountering such DSD levels exceeding 0 dB. ESS Sabre chips try to use same level for both, so it may result in clipping at full scale signals... For this reason, HQPlayer prefers not to output DSD signals exceeding 0 dB reference level.

Thanks for the explanation, Miska. I agree in general DSD output wins the day for my preference. I know it's a matter of debate and controversy but for me DSD output sounds more natural / less digital and less fatiguing.

 

I'm still uncertain why the volume difference depending on playing DSD format files versus when playing PCM converted to DSD, but I'll live with it as sound quality is priority #1., 

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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9 hours ago, Miska said:

The default gain is recommended -3 dBFS for PCM to DSD. I would recommend using the same also for PCM mode, although I don't know why one would use PCM mode at all... ;)

 

I've found -5 dBFS the safer number as some of my 44.1 content was kicking the clipping indicator at -3 and -4 dBFS.  I assume the volume knob turning red meant there was clipping?

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

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23 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

 

I've found -5 dBFS the safer number as some of my 44.1 content was kicking the clipping indicator at -3 and -4 dBFS.  I assume the volume knob turning red meant there was clipping?

Forgive my newbie-ness....but where does one set dBFS. Is it an HQ Player option or a setting on one's amp?

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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9 minutes ago, LoryWiv said:

Forgive my newbie-ness....but where does one set dBFS. Is it an HQ Player option or a setting on one's amp?

 

In HQPlayer filters setting dialog, the max db setting near the bottom.  I set min and max the same at -5dBFS.

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

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1 hour ago, Dr Tone said:

 

In HQPlayer filters setting dialog, the max db setting near the bottom.  I set min and max the same at -5dBFS.

Ah, of course. Thank you, Dr Tone.

Desktop: HQ Player --> Singxer SU-1 --> Matrix X-Sabre Pro --> McChanson SuperSilver UltimatE

Headphones: Audeze MM-500, Meze Audio Elite, Focal Utopia 2022, Focal Bathys (Wireless)

Portable Gear: Hiby RS6, xDuoo XD05 Bal 2, FiiO BTR7, Creative BT-W5, FiiTii HiFiDots TWS

Nearfield Active Speakers: Audioengine HD3 

Power Conditioning: Furman Elite-15 PFi

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16 hours ago, Dr Tone said:

 

In HQPlayer filters setting dialog, the max db setting near the bottom.  I set min and max the same at -5dBFS.

 

What's the reason for setting min and max the same?

LMS on Odroid XU4; HQPlayer on i7-8700; iFi iGalvanic; T+A DAC 8 DSD; Benchmark AHB2; Quad ESL 2805s + two Acoustic Energy subs.

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36 minutes ago, richard kimber said:

 

What's the reason for setting min and max the same?

 

My reasoning as right or wrong as it is:

 

Setting them the same basically disables the volume knob in HQPlayer.  It prevents me from accidentally turning the volume down further I guess.

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

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