HQ Player

[Miska]

1 hour ago, bibo01 said:

@Miska

On W10 from 3.13.3 onward HQPlayer crashes if Asio4all is selected for HRT Music streamer II + (it has a WDM driver only). With other players, however, it does not crash.  

 

ASIO4ALL and JPlay need fixing. Other ASIO drivers don't crash.

 

Don't use ASIO4ALL, but use WASAPI instead if proper ASIO driver is not available...

[DSD256]

7 hours ago, hifial said:

 

I must comment on your definition of opinion. As you can see it is not based on knowing as you believe. 

 

o·pin·ion

əˈpinyən/

noun

1. a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

   "I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"

   synonyms:

   belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint;

 

 

It's always the same. If the argumentative level becomes difficult, than either personal attacks start or: wrong forum, too little post to criticize Miska, another comes with definition of opinion, or the addressee is silent... just silly.

 

Nevertheless Miska's silence reveals a great deal about him.

No one should forget he is on his own commercial business here. 
Against this background, utterances as mentioned (see below) are not acceptable. 

Miska talks about a DAC badly due to measurements he did not made himself, but originate from a commercial side "Stereophile", http://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-da-processor#MQdR3ZIh6xAdUB0s.97  Those measurements are very in the criticism and are basically disproved. Talking like this is bad style and borders on reputation.
In fact, DAC's with their own distinctive top filters are poison for Miska's business. 

 

Which DAC is at the index top at http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/the-darko-dac-index/?
Correctly a multibit, the Aqua Hifi La Scala MKII Optologic DAC.

 

Again:

Miska:"Those multi-bit ladders don't achieve the price/performance of delta-sigma DACs though. And even best ones don't come close to best delta-sigma DACs in terms of performance."

 

Funny ... it seems everyone else must have tomatoes on their ears. Besides, Miska keeps his DAC for the best in the business ... funny, really funny.

 

[Solstice380]

16 minutes ago, DSD256 said:

 

Funny ... it seems everyone else must have tomatoes on their ears. Besides, Miska keeps his DAC for the best in the business ... funny, really funny.

 

Ha ha ha.... we think you are the funny one.   And you persist!   You aren't helping yourself.   Seriously.  

[bibo01]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

ASIO4ALL and JPlay need fixing. Other ASIO drivers don't crash.

 

Don't use ASIO4ALL, but use WASAPI instead if proper ASIO driver is not available...

Thanks for the reply.

At least in the case of this user, using ASIO4ALL was preferable to WASAPI in terms of SQ, probably due to different buffer/latency management.

[DSD256]

4 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

Ha ha ha.... we think you are the funny one.   And you persist!   You aren't helping yourself.   Seriously.  

The Guru and His disciples Ha Ha Ha

[bibo01]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

ASIO4ALL and JPlay need fixing. Other ASIO drivers don't crash.

 

....

Then perhaps you can help me solve a problem where ASIO driver does crash.

With EMU1212 ASIO driver HQplayer works fine on Win 7 32bit. On Win 10 64bit, HQPlayer crashes with 32 and 64 bit version.
With Foobar2000 it is fine.

[Hazard]

4 hours ago, bibo01 said:

Then perhaps you can help me solve a problem where ASIO driver does crash.

With EMU1212 ASIO driver HQplayer works fine on Win 7 32bit. On Win 10 64bit, HQPlayer crashes with 32 and 64 bit version.
With Foobar2000 it is fine.

EMU drivers haven't been updated for many years and are buggy.  I have EMU  1212M card, Foobar2000 runs quite happily as you say but Sony SoundForge regularly crashes.  Would be nice if Creative would update drivers for Win10.

 

I have had problems with Win10 and HQPlayer as well.  I always use Linux for listening so I haven't actually experienced this for a while.  Can you test HQP with any drivers?

[Hazard]

4 hours ago, DSD256 said:

The Guru and His disciples Ha Ha Ha

Ummmm - this is a HQPlayer thread.  What did you expect to find here?

[Jud]

29 minutes ago, Hazard said:

Ummmm - this is a HQPlayer thread.  What did you expect to find here?

 

Can we please stop abetting the OT?

[Miska]

5 hours ago, bibo01 said:

At least in the case of this user, using ASIO4ALL was preferable to WASAPI in terms of SQ, probably due to different buffer/latency management.

 

One of the problems with ASIO4ALL is that it doesn't guarantee bit-perfect output, IOW it doesn't give any guarantees that the output wouldn't go through the Windows rate converter/mixer.

 

If there happens to be bit perfect path, I'm not going to comment on sound quality of two different bit perfect paths in the same computer. It goes to black magic category.

[Miska]

9 hours ago, DSD256 said:

Those measurements are very in the criticism and are basically disproved.

 

Funny ... it seems everyone else must have tomatoes on their ears. Besides, Miska keeps his DAC for the best in the business ... funny, really funny.

 

Which DAC is at the index top at http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/the-darko-dac-index/

 

Disproved where and how? I think the measurements are accurate.

 

The reasons why R2R ladders cannot be very precise are purely based on physics an manufacturing tolerances.  I've explained the behaviors here on this site multiple times and not going to repeat the same over and over again.

 

I've always said that I require things to both measure and sound well, simultaneously.

 

Apart from that, I'm only interested on DACs that one way or other suit my needs. I don't see reason to spend money on things that don't. I have bunch of R2R DACs, starting from old Burr-Brown PCM63P  chip based ones to newer Burr-Brown models. And I also have Metrum Musette and I'm planning to get a some new stuff from other manufacturers out of curiosity (when the cost is not ridiculous).

 

Darko stuff? Purely subjective as far as I can see...

 

But overall, if someone wants to use Schiit Yggdrasil, I of course don't mind. It is just not the best match for use with HQPlayer.

[Miska]

5 hours ago, bibo01 said:

With Foobar2000 it is fine.

 

I guess Foobar2000 is not really built for Win10, and still runs on obsolete systems like Windows XP?

[hifial]

17 hours ago, DSD256 said:

 

 

It's always the same. If the argumentative level becomes difficult, than either personal attacks start or: wrong forum, too little post to criticize Miska, another comes with definition of opinion, or the addressee is silent... just silly.

 

Nevertheless Miska's silence reveals a great deal about him.

No one should forget he is on his own commercial business here. 
Against this background, utterances as mentioned (see below) are not acceptable. 

Miska talks about a DAC badly due to measurements he did not made himself, but originate from a commercial side "Stereophile", http://www.stereophile.com/content/schiit-audio-yggdrasil-da-processor#MQdR3ZIh6xAdUB0s.97  Those measurements are very in the criticism and are basically disproved. Talking like this is bad style and borders on reputation.
In fact, DAC's with their own distinctive top filters are poison for Miska's business. 

 

Which DAC is at the index top at http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/the-darko-dac-index/?
Correctly a multibit, the Aqua Hifi La Scala MKII Optologic DAC.

 

Again:

Miska:"Those multi-bit ladders don't achieve the price/performance of delta-sigma DACs though. And even best ones don't come close to best delta-sigma DACs in terms of performance."

 

Funny ... it seems everyone else must have tomatoes on their ears. Besides, Miska keeps his DAC for the best in the business ... funny, really funny.

 

 

Sorry but I must correct you again.

 

The benefits that HQP bestows does not just shine with SDM type DACs or DSD or PCM or any chip based types, BUT also R2R based DACs like the Aqua HiFi Formula and many others in that same class.

 

How do I know. Because I and many others have actually tried HQP with the Formula and other R2R type DACs and we have all reported stellar results.  And ALL of them are highly regarded R2R type too.

 

I find it laughable that you criticize Stereophile and their results because they are "from the commercial side" but then blindly accept the results "from the commercial side" of the Digital Audio Review web site. You do realize that the Darko site is a commercial venture, right?   

 

You also fall short on your attack on Miska in regard as this is a commercial venture and that he has an agenda. What about the makers of the Schitt DAC are they Saints. Could it be that they have an agenda of their own. Schitt, we can say that about every manufacture and about any product. But then I was never one for conspiracy theories.  

 

As far as different types of DACs go I have found that most times it is how well it is designed and implemented vs the type. 

[Altabay]

Hi Miska, I'm sure by now you're sick and tired of hearing about the Schiit Yggdrasil, but I hope you don't mind answering my question.  Given that the Yggdrasil uses closed-form filter, what would you recommend as the most neutral, transparent HQPlayer settings for converting DSD content to 24/192 PCM?  Or is the answer that there is no such thing as neutral, transparent conversion from DSD to PCM?

[Miska]

2 hours ago, Altabay said:

Hi Miska, I'm sure by now you're sick and tired of hearing about the Schiit Yggdrasil, but I hope you don't mind answering my question.  Given that the Yggdrasil uses closed-form filter, what would you recommend as the most neutral, transparent HQPlayer settings for converting DSD content to 24/192 PCM?  Or is the answer that there is no such thing as neutral, transparent conversion from DSD to PCM?

 

I think all the conversion options are valid. Given Yggdrasil I would recommend following procedure to find best sounding options for you. This procedure varies somewhat depending on DAC in question.

 

1. Start with DSD64 content and when testing select upsampling filter as "none" in HQPlayer main window, this because DSD is converted to 1/16th of the rate and thus lands at 176.4k for DSD64 which Yggdrasil can play.
2. In "DSDIFF/DSF Settings" dialog select as starting point traditional/standard as conversion and noise filter types, you can usually also have 6 dB gain enabled.
3. Now you can now try for example poly-short-lin as alternative conversion type and see how it sounds, could be better, but it is heavier to process. See the descriptions in the manual for some guidance.
4. Once you have settled with conversion type, you can try different noise filters.
5. When you have decided these two settings you don't need to touch those anymore. For DSD128/DSD256 you will need additional down-conversion step to be selected from HQPlayer main window, because the initial PCM conversion goes to 352.8/705.6 kHz rate which Yggdrasil cannot play. Best match is probably the one you use for upsampling in case it can do down conversion too (assuming you use upsampling). If you don't know where to start, you could start with poly-sinc-short and poly-sinc-xtr. You can also convert DSD64 to 192k if you like to, but possibly in your case you could just leave it at 176.4k.

I personally use poly-short-lin/standard as DSD-to-PCM conversion parameters when I need to do that (Metrum Musette and such). For further conversion with Metrum to 352.8/384k I use closed-form. I consider this neutral and transparent.

 

For up-/down-sampling with Yggdrasil, if people like Schiit's filter, will likely also like poly-sinc-xtr and close-form filters in HQPlayer, because these are most similar ones.

 

[zoltan]

Hi,
I'm new to this forum and to HQPlayer, still on trial version actually. I'm planning to purchase the licence but after many years of using just the family PC for music, I decided to build a dedicated PC for music. It will take a few weeks, maybe even more, so I wondering if I buy the licence and use my current PC for a few more weeks, will I be able to install and 'transfer' the licence to my newly built one? I found no information on this and didn't get a reply from Sygnalist to my e-mail a few days ago. Somebody here might know. 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, zoltan said:

Hi,
I'm new to this forum and to HQPlayer, still on trial version actually. I'm planning to purchase the licence but after many years of using just the family PC for music, I decided to build a dedicated PC for music. It will take a few weeks, maybe even more, so I wondering if I buy the licence and use my current PC for a few more weeks, will I be able to install and 'transfer' the licence to my newly built one? I found no information on this and didn't get a reply from Sygnalist to my e-mail a few days ago. Somebody here might know. 

 

1 hour ago, zoltan said:

Hi,
I'm new to this forum and to HQPlayer, still on trial version actually. I'm planning to purchase the licence but after many years of using just the family PC for music, I decided to build a dedicated PC for music. It will take a few weeks, maybe even more, so I wondering if I buy the licence and use my current PC for a few more weeks, will I be able to install and 'transfer' the licence to my newly built one? I found no information on this and didn't get a reply from Sygnalist to my e-mail a few days ago. Somebody here might know. 

YES, not an issue

[Quadman]

Zoltan, just make sure you save the HQP license key in multiple places so you won't accidentally lose it.  Easy to move from machine to machine.

[Anto]

On 22/3/2017 at 11:13 AM, Miska said:

 

ASIO4ALL and JPlay need fixing. Other ASIO drivers don't crash.

 

Don't use ASIO4ALL, but use WASAPI instead if proper ASIO driver is not available...

Good morning Miska, what is the fix?
In next versions, it's going to fix this?
Thank you
Greetings Anto

[andru26]

3 minutes ago, Quadman said:

Firedog, just make sure you save the HQP license key in multiple places so you won't accidentally lose it.  Easy to move from machine to machine.

My trial licence expired on HQPlayer and I get a message window to contact Signalyst to extend my trial. I recently changed my DAC and I want to test how the new one works with the upsampling capabilities of HQP, before I purchase a full licence. So far I emailed signalyst, I also contacted Miska, but I got no reply at all regarding this matter.

@Miska, your input would really be appreciated.

[DSD256]

On 22.3.2017 at 10:10 PM, Miska said:

 

Disproved where and how? I think the measurements are accurate.

 

The reasons why R2R ladders cannot be very precise are purely based on physics an manufacturing tolerances.  I've explained the behaviors here on this site multiple times and not going to repeat the same over and over again.

 

I've always said that I require things to both measure and sound well, simultaneously.

 

Apart from that, I'm only interested on DACs that one way or other suit my needs. I don't see reason to spend money on things that don't. I have bunch of R2R DACs, starting from old Burr-Brown PCM63P  chip based ones to newer Burr-Brown models. And I also have Metrum Musette and I'm planning to get a some new stuff from other manufacturers out of curiosity (when the cost is not ridiculous).

 

Darko stuff? Purely subjective as far as I can see...

 

But overall, if someone wants to use Schiit Yggdrasil, I of course don't mind. It is just not the best match for use with HQPlayer.

 

Thanks for finally commenting on topic.

You think the measurements are accurate? A quick googling brought me to different measurements,

which obtained for example significantly better jitter measurements than John Atkinson. http://superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-yggdrasil-stereophile-review-measurements.3762/

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-yggdrasil-measurements.413/

Of course, all reviews are subjective, yours, mine. There is no objectivity here. 

Some reviewers, on the other hand, want to give their reviews some sort of objectivity by taking measurements.

By the way, John Atkinson comes to significantly worse measurements when measuring other DACs (MSB Analog DAC, NAD's M51), but then evaluates them significantly better and finds the measurements still optimal.

JA:  "a pleasure to measure such a good performing product ... so well thought out and so well engineered" and "almost beyond reproach. Color me impressed." "NAD's M51 Direct Digital DAC offers measured performance that is almost beyond reproach. Color me impressed." Further reading: http://superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-yggdrasil-stereophile-review-measurements.3762/

 

So i give a s... on those measurements. What counts is how it sounds. According to the exellent measurements, the RME ADI-2 Pro must be the worlds best Dac.  

 

Miska:"The reasons why R2R ladders cannot be very precise are purely based on physics an manufacturing tolerances.  I've explained the behaviors here on this site multiple times and not going to repeat the same over and over again."

Mike Moffat, however, comes with the Yggdrasil diametrically to another result. Miska, so your truth is not THE truth, but your opinion and that's fine. You can always repeat it, but it remains always your opinion, not more. 

Regarding the combination Yggy and HQplayer, I also think that there is better sounding software esspecialy for the Yggy. Probably lies the real strength of the HQplayer, in the ability to curb the sharpness of the delta-sigma DACs design. Ich

 

To me Audirvana sound much better with the Yggy. With the delta-sigma DACs i have had, to me HQplayer sounded best.

 

In conclusion, I am in no way to lift the Yggdrasil into the light. There are lots of great good-sounding DAC's.

My main criticism remains:

Miska:"Those multi-bit ladders don't achieve the price/performance of delta-sigma DACs though. And even best ones don't come close to best delta-sigma DACs in terms of performance."

This statement is nonsense.

If I proceed in the sense of a metacritic, the probability is very high that a product is really good at many positive reviews. If i look at different reviews, multibit DAC's are always on the top of the game.

[Jud]

36 minutes ago, DSD256 said:

 

Thanks for finally commenting on topic.

You think the measurements are accurate? A quick googling brought me to different measurements,

which obtained for example significantly better jitter measurements than John Atkinson. http://superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-yggdrasil-stereophile-review-measurements.3762/

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-yggdrasil-measurements.413/

Of course, all reviews are subjective, yours, mine. There is no objectivity here. 

Some reviewers, on the other hand, want to give their reviews some sort of objectivity by taking measurements.

By the way, John Atkinson comes to significantly worse measurements when measuring other DACs (MSB Analog DAC, NAD's M51), but then evaluates them significantly better and finds the measurements still optimal.

JA:  "a pleasure to measure such a good performing product ... so well thought out and so well engineered" and "almost beyond reproach. Color me impressed." "NAD's M51 Direct Digital DAC offers measured performance that is almost beyond reproach. Color me impressed." Further reading: http://superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/schiit-yggdrasil-stereophile-review-measurements.3762/

 

So i give a s... on those measurements. What counts is how it sounds. According to the exellent measurements, the RME ADI-2 Pro must be the worlds best Dac.  

 

Miska:"The reasons why R2R ladders cannot be very precise are purely based on physics an manufacturing tolerances.  I've explained the behaviors here on this site multiple times and not going to repeat the same over and over again."

Mike Moffat, however, comes with the Yggdrasil diametrically to another result. Miska, so your truth is not THE truth, but your opinion and that's fine. You can always repeat it, but it remains always your opinion, not more. 

Regarding the combination Yggy and HQplayer, I also think that there is better sounding software esspecialy for the Yggy. Probably lies the real strength of the HQplayer, in the ability to curb the sharpness of the delta-sigma DACs design. Ich

 

To me Audirvana sound much better with the Yggy. With the delta-sigma DACs i have had, to me HQplayer sounded best.

 

In conclusion, I am in no way to lift the Yggdrasil into the light. There are lots of great good-sounding DAC's.

My main criticism remains:

Miska:"Those multi-bit ladders don't achieve the price/performance of delta-sigma DACs though. And even best ones don't come close to best delta-sigma DACs in terms of performance."

This statement is nonsense.

If I proceed in the sense of a metacritic, the probability is very high that a product is really good at many positive reviews. If i look at different reviews, multibit DAC's are always on the top of the game.

 

What I think you are saying is that measurements are nonsense, and that a lot of positive reviews are a better guide to ensuring something is good.  Am I understanding you correctly?

[louisxiawei]

@DSD256 Really impressed by your stubbornness and imagination.

 

The imagination of other reviews and regard them as your argument points.

 

A few simple questions for you:

 

Which dac you are using right now? Is it ygg? Is ygg the only dac you own? Have you own other ladder dacs like Metrum? Have you own a SDM dac? Have you seriously compare them at the similar price tag?

 

Since your username is quite ironic: DSD256, another few questions for you to see whether you are well-educated in terms of DSD:

 

Do you believe DSD is superior to PCM in terms of format, dac design? Do you know ladder DAC is capable of DSD or PCM? Are you mixing multi-bit ladder with multi-bit SDM dac?

 

Lastly

 

Please define top-of-the-game DAC. Are you referring the extravagant MSB dac? Have you listened to them by yourself or assume it to be better based on the postive review? 

 

If you don't believe Miska's DIY hardware, no problem. Try T+A  DAC8 DSD with HQplayer and compared it with your mighty YGG, its one-bit SDM converter is similar to DSC1's. I believe DAC8 DSD's performance/price can tell you very much about what Miska means.

 

If  DAC8 DSD's price tag doesn't fit your top-of-the-game definition. Then try T+A flagship HV PDP300 SACD dac. 

 

Otherwise, please stop embarrassing yourself and making ridiculous comment. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jud]

2 minutes ago, louisxiawei said:

@DSD256 Really impressed by your stubbornness and imagination.

 

The imagination of other reviews and regard them as your argument points.

 

A few simple questions for you:

 

Which dac you are using right now? Is it ygg? Is ygg the only dac you own? Have you own other ladder dacs like Metrum? Have you own a SDM dac? Have you seriously compare them at the similar price tag?

 

Since your username is quite ironic: DSD256, another few questions for you to see whether you are well-educated in terms of DSD:

 

Do you believe DSD is superior to PCM in terms of format, dac design? Do you know ladder DAC is capable of DSD or PCM? Are you mixing multi-bit ladder with multi-bit SDM dac?

 

Lastly

 

Please define top-of-the-game DAC. Are you referring the extravagant MSB dac? Have you listened to them by yourself or assume it to be better based on the postive review? 

 

If you don't believe Miska's DIY hardware, no problem. Try T+A  DAC8 DSD with HQplayer and compared it with your mighty YGG, its one-bit SDM converter is similar to DSC1's. I believe DAC8 DSD's performance/price can tell you very much about what Miska means.

 

If  DAC8 DSD's price tag doesn't fit your top-of-the-game definition. Then try T+A flagship HV PDP300 SACD dac. 

 

Otherwise, please stop embarrassing yourself and make ridiculous comment. 

 

 

I think it's fine - everyone is free to like what they want.  (Including Miska  .)

[louisxiawei]

4 hours ago, Jud said:

Regarding the combination Yggy and HQplayer, I also think that there is better sounding software esspecialy for the Yggy. Probably lies the real strength of the HQplayer, in the ability to curb the sharpness of the delta-sigma DACs design. Ich

 

To me Audirvana sound much better with the Yggy. With the delta-sigma DACs i have had, to me HQplayer sounded best.

 

 

One more thing, as your previous post mentioned: you use HQplayer upsampled to DSD256 sent it to Ygg.

 

I doubt whether you use the correct HQplayer setup for your Ygg. It doesn't make any sense to me. Ygg doesn't support DSD for god's sake.

 

There are two DSP settings in HQplayer. PCM and SDM. For Ygg as multi-bit ladder dac, I have no idea why you use SDM one instead of PCM DSP in the HQplayer.