HQ Player

[Miska]

Note, I posted one multicast routing documentation snippet on the NAA thread... For people with multi-homed network on Linux machine running HQPlayer.

[louisxiawei]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Miska. Much appreciated.

 

Only once I've got a chance to try it out myself... I'm planning to get 1800X.

 

Great. Please do keep us updated about your findings and let us know whether AMD and Intel CPU will yield different SQ or not.

 

 

There is a limit how much extra cores can be utilized, depending on use case. So if you don't run convolution engine 7700K is probably safer choice for your use case. Because base clock is usually related to number of cores, rule of thumb CPU selection for upsampling without convolution or such is to get CPU with high as possible base clock frequency and with 2xChannels number of cores (so for stereo a quad core). If you run convolution or Roon you can throw in two extra cores so that the processing doesn't starve due to other activities. So for stereo 4 to 6 cores is usually optimal point. The 10-core 6950X I have is for running 8-channels with convolution at DSD256 to exaSound e28 DAC.

 

Very useful information. Many thanks.

 

I have added some new things to make next HQPlayer version utilize a bit more cores so that it would be better on those 8 cores in basic cases too. So that it would behave a bit more like it now does with Nvidia CUDA offload.

 

 

I see. Good to know you are working on the new feature. I think it will be very useful for users who use CPU only for their audio PC so that they can build fanless setup without graphic card.

 

However, I plan to build a PC system that is capable of high-performance gaming such as VR and DSD512+ with heaviest modulator and filters upsampling.

 

I am now waiting for GTX 1080Ti to be released and try to build a GTX 1080Ti SLI with i7 7700K.

 

Question again: Since you mention about 6-core will be more optimal for stereo system if one uses Roon and I do use Roon with HQplayer, are you suggesting 6850K will somehow outperform 7700k in your opinion even with the help of GTX 1080Ti's cuda offload?

 

I remember you mentioned 7700k is cheaper and better than 6950X for stereo. No idea whether it is still the case against 6850k.

 

Thanks again.

[Jud]

 

Yes, best is to forget stupid USB and use Ethernet instead. Like I said, bake NAA straight into the DAC and use bare I2S/DSD data wires from there.

 

 

DSC2?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Miska]

DSC2?

 

I was planning to have a socket for USB interface just like before. But of course one can use other kinds of interfaces already with DSC1 since there's just a connector for data input. In fact there are people using BBB Botic with DSC1, I've seen them mentioning that now it works even up to DSD512.

[jabbr]

.... To properly deal with firmware and drivers you need to employ software engineers. I think this will be one of the major difference makers between manufacturers in future. The ones who employ software engineers vs the ones who don't...

 

There is no way to avoid dealing with software in modern world.

 

Hardware & software engineering are increasingly the same.

 

GUIs allow "visual" programming like a circuit. Circuits are programmed, traditionally in languages like Verilog & VHDL but now increasingly in C/C++ and even "flow" languages like Lucid.

 

Eclipse can host it all.

 

In this way blocks of logic can be developed on the CPU and then "moved" to the programmable logic section for acceleration.

 

Even traditional discrete hardware is developed in a GUI which allows increasing vertical integration: click, print board, pick & place, test and ship completed board back.

 

It's all software

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, best is to forget stupid USB and use Ethernet instead. Like I said, bake NAA straight into the DAC and use bare I2S/DSD data wires from there. No USB.

 

 

 

There are many non-XMOS implementations. Amanero, TEAC, Marantz/Denon, Fostex, etc.

 

 

 

Why use FPGA to host MCU when you can have MCU doing the job? It is just inefficient.

 

 

 

It comes back, but is just called Ethernet...

 

FPGAs are getting cheaper by the minute. The big benefit for me is not math processing but the ability to use software techniques to develop /prototype/deploy all the associated hardware which sits around the CPU. The IO lines themselves are programmable and specialized clocking can be done on chip.

 

For me, the ability to retime, reconnect, redesign a "hardware" circuit on my laptop and then both deploy & measure via a cable USB/JTAG is remarkable. All done through Eclipse & Linux command line.

 

Oh yeah totally agree about Ethernet ;)

[ismewor]

Is it possible to stream pcm to my oppo 105 on Ethernet withHQPlayer? Thx

[Dr Tone]

Is it possible to stream pcm to my oppo 105 on Ethernet withHQPlayer? Thx

 

I don't think Oppo has a NAA mode.

[mirekti]

I've decided to rebulid my HTPC and it will be fanless FC5 case based. MBO mini ITX, CPU i7-7700 (65W).

 

Do you think this would be enough for running smoothly HQPlayer upsampling to DSD512 and Roon?

I guess this will only work with -2s filters.

 

I also have a backup plan and that's to add Nvidia P4.

P4 would fit the case, wouldn't use too much power, but it is quite expensive.

Is P4 something worth investing in?

[louisxiawei]

Hi Miska,

 

Just updated my HQplayer to the latest version 3.15.1. I observe that the load of CPU has been somehow decreased for the same upsampling and filter. (i.e. in 3.15 version, I cannot open my web browser when I upsample to DSD 512 since it casues stutter, now I can)

 

However, I do find using poly-sinc-2s, modulator ASDM 512+fs, DSD 48k*512, has more analytical sound compared to the previous version 3.15, especially in the treble. Some of my friends also can obviously feel that.

 

Any idea?

[ismewor]

So it is different than jriver enable media network function?

[smartin]

I've decided to rebulid my HTPC and it will be fanless FC5 case based. MBO mini ITX, CPU i7-7700 (65W).

 

Do you think this would be enough for running smoothly HQPlayer upsampling to DSD512 and Roon?

I guess this will only work with -2s filters.

 

I also have a backup plan and that's to add Nvidia P4.

P4 would fit the case, wouldn't use too much power, but it is quite expensive.

Is P4 something worth investing in?

 

P4 is designed to be used in a rack server, where there is high airflow across the board. It is not designed to be passively cooled. It's also designed primarily for int-8 operation, and while it has good fp32, its fp64 (what HQP uses) is capped just like in the retail geforce series.

 

But, all of this is sort of irrelevant. Fanless cases, like the FC5 use the case as a heatsink. If you put a GPU inside (unless it uses a blower type fan that exhausts out the back), you need to add it's heat output to what the case will need to dissipate. Even a Geforce 1060 would likely overwhelm the FC5's dissipation capacity. You'd be much better off getting a 'hotter' cpu (such as a 7700k) downclock it until temps are stable (if necessary, very unlikely will be necessary as even at DSD512, 7700k is not anywhere close to fully loaded, so would not use full 91W TDP) and forgo the GPU.

[mirekti]

You'd be much better off getting a 'hotter' cpu (such as a 7700k) downclock it until temps are stable (if necessary, very unlikely will be necessary as even at DSD512, 7700k is not anywhere close to fully loaded, so would not use full 91W TDP) and forgo the GPU.

 

Thanks a lot for the comments. I considered 7700K as well, but the case supports TDP of 65W.

Ok, so either CPU only or external GPU (which kills the small factor I was aiming at).

Let's see how it will work with 7700. I am still awaiting DSD512 DAC so I'll be able to test it only in a month or so.

 

Regarding the P4, too bad, I though one would be able to use the sink on the other side of the case given P4's low power requirements. It is super expensive so I don't feel bad about it.

[smartin]

Thanks a lot for the comments. I considered 7700K as well, but the case supports TDP of 65W.

Ok, so either CPU only or external GPU (which kills the small factor I was aiming at).

Let's see how it will work with 7700. I am still awaiting DSD512 DAC so I'll be able to test it only in a month or so.

 

Regarding the P4, too bad, I though one would be able to use the sink on the other side of the case given P4's low power requirements. It is super expensive so I don't feel bad about it.

My point was that even doing DSD512, the 7700k is unlikely to use anywhere near its max TDP. Worst case scenario, with a few easy BIOS tweaks, you can turn the 7700k into a 7700. All you'd be out is the extra cash for the K over non-K. But I think it's very likely you could run the 7700k at stock, or slightly underclocked, in the FC5 and have more horsepower available compared to the non-k.

[Miska]

The big benefit for me is not math processing but the ability to use software techniques to develop /prototype/deploy all the associated hardware which sits around the CPU. The IO lines themselves are programmable and specialized clocking can be done on chip.

 

Yeah, I've been using CPLDs and FPGAs for routing digital signals, frequency dividers and such, those are certainly good for that kind of purpose, around the CPU.

[juliocat]

Help!!!!

 

HQPlayer closes every time i select Tools-Network naming, and stops seeing my NAA, how can i fully uninstall HQPlayer ???

 

I'm on OSX Sierra

 

 

Thanks

[bogi]

Help!!!!

 

HQPlayer closes every time i select Tools-Network naming, and stops seeing my NAA, how can i fully uninstall HQPlayer ???

 

I'm on OSX Sierra

 

 

Thanks

 

I would rename or delete the HQPlayer settings file HQPlayer.xml. I'm on Windows but on Sierra I would expect that xml file in your home directory probably in HQPlayer subdirectory. Miska knows that exactly.

[mirekti]

Even a Geforce 1060 would likely overwhelm the FC5's dissipation capacity.

 

How about 1050 Ti, would this be a good choice for CUDA offload?

It is almost the weakest GTX pascal card, but I guess it would help the CPU a bit, just not sure how much. I have no intention of using it for gaming.

It fits the case perfectly, doesn't consume much power and I could eventually modify/add pipes to the case sink for even more heat dissipation.

[blue2]

How about 1050 Ti, would this be a good choice for CUDA offload?

It is almost the weakest GTX pascal card, but I guess it would help the CPU a bit, just not sure how much. I have no intention of using it for gaming.

It fits the case perfectly, doesn't consume much power and I could eventually modify/add pipes to the case sink for even more heat dissipation.

 

Looks like the 1050 & 1050Ti are less powerful (DP FP) than GTX 960 Ted had/has in his system, although boost performance is better. Only 75W consumption though, 300W recommended PSU. I'd recommend you listen to HQPlayer on the spec machine you think you want before you spend your money, if you can.

[mirekti]

Looks like the 1050 & 1050Ti are less powerful (DP FP) than GTX 960 Ted had/has in his system...

I am not sure who Ted is. Are you trying to say that GTX 960 was of little or no help so I should skip adding 1050 Ti to the system or there's something else behind it?

[Margus]

How about 1050 Ti, would this be a good choice for CUDA offload?

All 10xx series have exactly the same Compute Capability: 6.1 ... previous 9xx generation "Compute Capability" was 5.2

 

https://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-gpus

[Miska]

I would rename or delete the HQPlayer settings file HQPlayer.xml. I'm on Windows but on Sierra I would expect that xml file in your home directory probably in HQPlayer subdirectory. Miska knows that exactly.

 

On Mac and Linux that configuration file is in ~/.hqplayer folder. In addition there's a bit of GUI state stored separately, but it is usually not necessary to delete that.

[juliocat]

On Mac and Linux that configuration file is in ~/.hqplayer folder. In addition there's a bit of GUI state stored separately, but it is usually not necessary to delete that.

 

Thanks Miska, problem solved

[blue2]

I am not sure who Ted is. Are you trying to say that GTX 960 was of little or no help so I should skip adding 1050 Ti to the system or there's something else behind it?

ted_b built his PC like this: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/design-pc-server-roon-and-hq-player-25796/index6.html#post536775 (post #143) Maybe he could advise you how much help the CUDA offload gives in terms of upsampling/convolution capability, or miska of course. According to miska the CUDA-Z score is your best guide (DP FP processing speed is critical), CUDA Compute needs only to be 3 or above for software compatibility (not performance guide for HQPlayer). There's also a CUDA GPU thread. Hope this helps - listen before you buy if possible

[Margus]

Hi Miska

 

CD -> Exact Audio Copy -> file.wav -> Sony DSD Direct -> file.dsf -> HQP ->

clReadDSD::Open(path/to_file.dsf): clDSF::Open(): clDSF::ReadHeaders(): file size mismatch, incomplete file?

CD -> Exact Audio Copy -> file.wav -> Sony DSD Direct -> file.dsf -> KorgAudioGate/Foobar/Jriver/Audirvana/etc -> Plays fine

[Miska]

CD -> Exact Audio Copy -> file.wav -> Sony DSD Direct -> file.dsf -> HQP ->

 

Why are you doing something like this? Defeats the purpose of HQPlayer...

 

-> file.wav -> Sony DSD Direct -> file.dsf -> KorgAudioGate/Foobar/Jriver/Audirvana/etc -> Plays fine

 

Corrupted file with different size stated in the header than the file itself has. Those other pieces of software are then not so pedantic checking for correctness of the file.