HQ Player

[Quadman]

Miska, for grins and giggles I wanted to see my PC's utilization of the same dire straits track you did above in post 8185. I took a screen shot at the same point as you (2:36) using the same filters you did. My PC- i7-6700k with geforce 1060 GPU, win 10 pro, roon, HQP and fidelizer pro connected direct to T+A dac via usb with regen in chain. (no convolution, just straight 2 channel).

 

 

 

My utilization was 23% according to task manager and 20% according to resource monitor. The core graphs show much more activity than your 6950. What accounts for the much better utilization for the 6950? More memory channels, more L3 Cache, more cores or a combination of all the above. The next PC I build I want it to be better than my 6700K unit but budget is also a consideration, therefore the 6800 comes into play. Speed vs. cores vs. memory lanes vs. L3, I guess there is no easy button.

[eternaloptimist]

Have the latest 3.5 network Audio dameon on a nuc.Everyone once in awhile the network Audio dameon shuts down.Any ideas ?

 

I have the identical problem.

I have a T + A DAC 8 DSD connected to a Macmini running the NAA, with HQPlayer running on an 6700K machine.

I I put the DAC into standby and restart... more often than not, the NAA has shut down. Needs restarting... then HQPlayer needs restarting especially if I had attempted to play when HQPlayer just flickers and stalls....

 

Please, please can this be addressed. All other software players I have ever used cope with a DAC being put into standby ie. on and off again without crashing. HQPlayer and the NAA I see as a "unit" which IMHO should not crash just because a DAC is turned off and on.

 

Cheers,

Dave

[m3lraaHnevetS]

+1

 

I have the identical problem.

I have a T + A DAC 8 DSD connected to a Macmini running the NAA, with HQPlayer running on an 6700K machine.

I I put the DAC into standby and restart... more often than not, the NAA has shut down. Needs restarting... then HQPlayer needs restarting especially if I had attempted to play when HQPlayer just flickers and stalls....

 

Please, please can this be addressed. All other software players I have ever used cope with a DAC being put into standby ie. on and off again without crashing. HQPlayer and the NAA I see as a "unit" which IMHO should not crash just because a DAC is turned off and on.

 

Cheers,

Dave

[Miska]

Please, please can this be addressed. All other software players I have ever used cope with a DAC being put into standby ie. on and off again without crashing.

 

With the same ASIO driver? The ASIO driver should handle it instead of crashing... Keep the "all other software players" playing music through the same ASIO driver and then power down the DAC while music is playing (or pull the USB plug which is same thing in many cases) and bring it back on and see what happens.

 

With the networkaudiod 3.5.0 and switching it to WASAPI backend you may have better luck.

 

With Linux-based NAA I have not seen crashes or anything. I'm not going to spend huge effort on Windows/macOS based networkaudiod because it is kind of stupid idea to begin with and I only built such because of lot of people asking for it. It is really really intended to run on minimal Linux.

[tboooe]

With the networkaudiod 3.5.0 and switching it to WASAPI backend you may have better luck.

Wait, does this mean that Naa now supports wasapi as well as asio now?

[Miska]

Wait, does this mean that Naa now supports wasapi as well as asio now?

 

Yes, that was the only new feature introduced in 3.5.0...

[craighartley]

With the same ASIO driver? The ASIO driver should handle it instead of crashing... Keep the "all other software players" playing music through the same ASIO driver and then power down the DAC while music is playing (or pull the USB plug which is same thing in many cases) and bring it back on and see what happens.

 

With the networkaudiod 3.5.0 and switching it to WASAPI backend you may have better luck.

 

With Linux-based NAA I have not seen crashes or anything. I'm not going to spend huge effort on Windows/macOS based networkaudiod because it is kind of stupid idea to begin with and I only built such because of lot of people asking for it. It is really really intended to run on minimal Linux.

 

Does it seem a stupid idea when you are listening to 512DSD via NAA>T&A8DSD?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Miska]

Does it seem a stupid idea when you are listening to 512DSD via NAA>T&A8DSD?

 

Yes, it would be much better to get rid of Windows and ASIO and do it with minimal Linux instead. But that requires final good firmware from Amanero and T+A to provide an update (not sure if it possible to have it user installable at all).

 

I would prefer that the Amanero in T+A would be powered from USB bus like the Amanero's own Combo384 card by default is, because then it can never suddenly disappear from the USB bus unless someone disconnects the cable.

 

The Amanero ASIO driver could also use some love to fix out the various issues it has...

 

Meanwhile, either power things up/down in correct order, or keep things powered up all the time.

[bogi]

For me it is not stupid idea to use Win10 NAA. I am using it mainly because of Windows ASIO driver. With XMOS Control Panel application it is possible to set USB Streaming mode and ASIO Buffer size. As not only I observed setting USB streaming mode has effect on sound and can have effect on resistance level against stuttering. So I can fine tune some XMOS driver related parameters. I like on XMOS Control Panel also the fact I can see if I have my DAC connected as well as the sample rate. That's useful while experimenting, for example I just finished my DYI USB cable. I read posts from others, who don't have DAC displaying sample rate (my DAC displays it), how they had hard time to find what for sample rate is incoming to their DAC.

 

I stripped down my Win10 using recommendations from http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/windows-10-optimization-script-community-effort-25361/ I am using Atom Z8350 miniPC with preinstalled and activated Win10, it was for 77EUR incl. shipping. NAA installation was trivial thing. No network setup was needed, as I am using direct cable between HQPlayer computer and NAA and IPv6 autoconfiguration.

 

I have no issues with my NAA. It simply works. Regardless what is started first - NAA or DAC. I found if HQPlayer playback is stopped DAC can be disconnected/connected or powered off/on and when playback is started again in HQPlayer, all works as should. So my NAA requires no operation and can work headless. I configured my Win10 for autologin and for automated NAA start upon login. And the power button is configured to invoke shutdown. So the whole NAA operation is reduced to powering the miniPC on or off.

[Miska]

For me it is not stupid idea to use Win10 NAA. I am using it mainly because of Windows ASIO driver. With XMOS Control Panel application it is possible to set USB Streaming mode and ASIO Buffer size.

 

Most XMOS based ones should work fine with Linux-based NAA too...

 

With Windows you can never strip down the system like you can with Linux. Thus my strong recommendation is to use minimal Linux (no GUI) for NAA whenever possible. And if not, then something else can be used, and then put pressure on the DAC vendor to have the DAC properly supported on Linux.

 

I have no issues with my NAA. It simply works. Regardless what is started first - NAA or DAC. I found if HQPlayer playback is stopped DAC can be disconnected/connected or powered off/on and when playback is started again in HQPlayer, all works as should. So my NAA requires no operation and can work headless. I configured my Win10 for autologin and for automated NAA start upon login. And the power button is configured to invoke shutdown. So the whole NAA operation is reduced to powering the miniPC on or off.

 

Then the ASIO driver is doing right thing and doesn't go messed up in event of such USB events...

[bogi]

Most XMOS based ones should work fine with Linux-based NAA too...

Yes, but without possibility to fine tune things via ASIO Control Panel. Maybe I am extremist but if some setting affects sound or reliability, I want to have it available.

 

With Windows you can never strip down the system like you can with Linux.

You are right, but ...

I read repeatedly that HQPlayer on Win10 sounds better than on Linux and that's most probably valid also for NAA. Why would the Sound Galleries Music Server run on Win10 if Linux would give better sound?

About stripping: After applying the things from the above linked thread Task Manager shows 20 Windows processes and 8 background processes while running NAA. Even Windows Explorer is not necessary. I know Linux can be stripped yet more, but my NAA runs smoothly - all background things like updates, notifications, indexing etc. are disabled.

[Miska]

Yes, but without possibility to fine tune things via ASIO Control Panel. Maybe I am extremist but if some setting affects sound or reliability, I want to have it available.

 

Yes, because there's no ASIO driver at all. But you can adjust the buffer size on Linux too, straight for HQPlayer, and you don't need ASIO Control Panel for that. Although I recommend leaving it at default setting. Have you tried it? You could be amazed with the results...

 

I read repeatedly that HQPlayer on Win10 sounds better than on Linux and that's most probably valid also for NAA.

 

I wouldn't agree on that... I personally use primarily Linux.

 

About stripping: After applying the things from the above linked thread Task Manager shows 20 Windows processes and 8 background processes while running NAA. Even Windows Explorer is not necessary. I know Linux can be stripped yet more, but my NAA runs smoothly - all background things like updates, notifications, indexing etc. are disabled.

 

But you still have GPU enabled and graphics output for display? Why would you want to have any graphics stuff running at all on a NAA?

[bogi]

Miska, all is about what sounds better, and also about easy operation and maintenance.

I am open to try Linux on my miniPC for sound comparison. But I don't know which to install for Cherry Trail platform where Atom Z8350 belongs to.

[Joaovieira]

Miska, my Sonictransporter is giving me headaches. Not connecting to Ethernet.

 

I am thinking in having Roon and HQPlayer on the same computer, an I7 with plenty of process capabilities.

 

would you say based on your experience that I will have any loss in sound quality?

[bogi]

What I found about sq on different platforms:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/index89.html#post427361

HQP on Win sounds better than MAC. There is no question in my mind, that tweaking the HQ P desktop machine improves sound quality. This is also the experience with the NAA users on the NextHardware forum in Italy

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/index89.html#post427373

A Windows friend tried Linux compared to Win Server 2013 with a player other HQP and was disappointed with the SQ from the Linux setup.

the feeling is the Linux USB drivers are not as good as the best (ASIO) USB drivers on Windows

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/hqplayers-network-audio-adapter-13892/index26.html#post435674

In my tests Win 10 sounds even better than WS2012 in MSM mode running on both HQP desktop (untweaked Win 10) and NAA (tweaked Win 10)

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/hqplayers-network-audio-adapter-13892/index29.html#post445763

SQ of NAA running in Win 10 is superb as well, especially with Realtime priority but with much more convenient interface :-)

[Miska]

Miska, all is about what sounds better, and also about easy operation and maintenance.

I am open to try Linux on my miniPC for sound comparison. But I don't know which to install for Cherry Trail platform where Atom Z8350 belongs to.

 

For NAA:

 

Two options, get Ubuntu 16.04 LTS Server (amd64) from here and then install my custom kernel from here.

 

Alternatively get Debian Stretch form here and then install optional linux-image-rt-amd64 kernel straight from Debian repository.

 

When installing, do not create any swap partition (installer will complain a little, but it doesn't matter). When installer of either one asks what extra package selections to install, at most install "Standard utilities" and "OpenSSH server". Nothing else.

 

OpenSSH server makes life easier for managing a headless system for example from Windows, because then you can use PuTTY to login remotely.

 

Remember to configure network through /etc/network/interfaces file. See "man interfaces" for documentation how to use it.

[Miska]

What I found about sq on different platforms

 

I don't have problem other people preferring other platforms.

 

My primary development and usage platform however is Linux and it is what I personally prefer. Maybe because I'm familiar with it from multiple aspects after using it for 20+ years. If I need to modify any part of the OS I know I can do it.

[Joaovieira]

What I found about sq on different platforms:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/index89.html#post427361

 

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/index89.html#post427373

 

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/hqplayers-network-audio-adapter-13892/index26.html#post435674

 

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/hqplayers-network-audio-adapter-13892/index29.html#post445763

 

Thank you very much for you answer.

 

acctually I am using Windows 10 to HQPlayer. Forgot to change my audio gear on botton of messages.

 

my concern is about putting Roon + HQPlayer together. My sonictransport is dead for ethernet, so I can't compare.

[Miska]

my concern is about putting Roon + HQPlayer together. My sonictransport is dead for ethernet, so I can't compare.

 

As long as you have enough CPU/GPU power to run both, keeping both in the same machine isn't a problem. It is more useful to use a NAA than splitting Roon and HQPlayer to different machines. But there may be practical reasons for splitting the two though. For example in my loudspeaker system I run Roon on Mac Mini under macOS. But HQPlayer is running either on Linux (HQPlayer Embedded) or Windows (HQPlayer Desktop).

 

For my Linux Desktop + headphones system I don't use Roon, but HQPlayer Desktop standalone on Ubuntu Studio 16.04 LTS.

[Joaovieira]

As long as you have enough CPU/GPU power to run both, keeping both in the same machine isn't a problem. It is more useful to use a NAA than splitting Roon and HQPlayer to different machines. But there may be practical reasons for splitting the two though. For example in my loudspeaker system I run Roon on Mac Mini under macOS. But HQPlayer is running either on Linux (HQPlayer Embedded) or Windows (HQPlayer Desktop).

 

For my Linux Desktop + headphones system I don't use Roon, but HQPlayer Desktop standalone on Ubuntu Studio 16.04 LTS.

Thank you very much.

[eternaloptimist]

With the same ASIO driver? The ASIO driver should handle it instead of crashing... Keep the "all other software players" playing music through the same ASIO driver and then power down the DAC while music is playing (or pull the USB plug which is same thing in many cases) and bring it back on and see what happens.

 

With the networkaudiod 3.5.0 and switching it to WASAPI backend you may have better luck.

 

With Linux-based NAA I have not seen crashes or anything. I'm not going to spend huge effort on Windows/macOS based networkaudiod because it is kind of stupid idea to begin with and I only built such because of lot of people asking for it. It is really really intended to run on minimal Linux.

 

Hi Miska. Thank you for taking time to reply. The access you provide as developer to your end clients is impressive and appreciated.

To clarify, I am only putting the T + A DAC 8 DSD in standby *after* stopping playing e.g. when finished for the evening. I am not putting it in standby with music playing.

 

When the DAC is brought of standby prior to playing music... the HQPlayer NAA crashes.

I have used the new NAA 3.5.0 and the same behaviour is seen.

 

No other player demonstrates this behaviour and I do not think it is unreasonable to expect the NAA not to crash in this situation.

The T + A DAC 8 DSD is on the top of your recommended DAC list - one of the reasons I bought it. As far as I am aware, at present, this DAC can accept DSD512 *only* via the Windows ASIO driver supplied - hence why I do not have a Linux endpoint.

 

You are obviously a talented programmer. Can I plead for a little time to rectify this problem as there are a lot of T + A DAC 8 DSD users of HQPlayer?

Cheers,

Dave

[Miska]

To clarify, I am only putting the T + A DAC 8 DSD in standby *after* stopping playing e.g. when finished for the evening. I am not putting it in standby with music playing.

 

If you use Roon, did you check that Roon actually stopped HQPlayer? When you click pause in Roon it doesn't stop HQPlayer immediately, but instead puts HQPlayer into pause meaning that HQPlayer switches to playing silence instead of music. This is because Roon doesn't have a stop-button at all.

 

When the DAC is brought of standby prior to playing music... the HQPlayer NAA crashes.

 

It is likely the ASIO driver that crashes, especially if other people don't see crashes with other drivers.

 

ASIO driver always consists of two parts.

- The low level hardware device driver that is loaded into the OS kernel space, if this driver part crashes then Windows ends up in blue screen.

- The high level DLL driver that is loaded into host application, this one talks to the low level driver by it's own means. If this driver part crashes then the host application will crash.

 

I just tested:

1) Started playback to Win10 NAA + networkaudiod 3.5.0

2) Stopped playback, last message at NAA show "ASIO engine stopped"

3) Powered down DAC8 DSD

4) Powered up DAC8 DSD

5) Attempted to start playback from HQPlayer

6) Playback fails because ASIO driver returns error from ASIOStart() call

7) Restarted networkaudiod to reset the driver

8) Restarted playback from HQPlayer and it succeeded just fine

 

No crashes.

 

But the ASIO driver does have some annoying bugs:

1) It claims to support any rate I ask, for example DSD1024 or 12345 Hz PCM while the hardware doesn't.

2) It claims to have 16 output channels with all channels with a name "Sample", while the hardware doesn't.

3) It also claims to have 16 input channels, while the hardware doesn't...

 

I have used the new NAA 3.5.0 and the same behaviour is seen.

 

Try with WASAPI backend instead for comparison.

 

No other player demonstrates this behaviour and I do not think it is unreasonable to expect the NAA not to crash in this situation.

 

Again, with that same ASIO driver in the same ASIO driver state? networkaudiod cannot do anything if the ASIO driver goes messed up.

 

The T + A DAC 8 DSD is on the top of your recommended DAC list - one of the reasons I bought it. As far as I am aware, at present, this DAC can accept DSD512 *only* via the Windows ASIO driver supplied - hence why I do not have a Linux endpoint.

 

Yes, and I never use any other inputs than USB and I never turn it off while networkaudiod is running. First shutdown your NAA machine and only then put the DAC into standby. And when you want to start playing, first power up the DAC and then start the NAA machine.

 

Can I plead for a little time to rectify this problem as there are a lot of T + A DAC 8 DSD users of HQPlayer?

 

I would recommend to ask T+A to fix their driver instead.

[eternaloptimist]

Hi Misha,

Many thanks for looking into this.

You are correct, I am using HQPlayer with Roon. As you say... no stop button just "pause".

The sequence of restart you describe (turn on DAC, start NAA, start HQPlayer etc.) is what works.

Interesting re: ASIO driver architecture.

I will contact T + A. Hopefully they can update their ASIO driver....

Cheers,

Dave

[Miska]

For comparison I tested with TEAC NT-503. And I could turn off the DAC and back on without having to restart networkaudiod and next playback from HQPlayer succeeded fine.

 

I'll do couple of small fixes to HQPlayer and then it should work with TEAC even if you power down the DAC down while playing. Next time you power it up and start playback from HQPlayer it should start fine. This is because the TEAC ASIO driver is behaving correctly.

[sjumper]

Hi everyone, I am a new user.

I am using HQPlayer on OSX Sierra connected via USB to the dac section of an Audio Research GSi75.

ARC state in their instruction manual for this device that HQPlayer can play DSD files without conversion to PCM.

They suggest that the following settings should be made:

Channels to 2, Channel Offset to 0, SDM Pack to DoP, select the 2wire option, and DAC bits to default.

I used these settings and although the files play, the DAC indicates that it is receiving DSD128 even when the bit rate is restricted to 44.1*64, but there is also a 'warble' in the background audible during quiet periods of playback.

Did anyone experience anything like this, and what do you think might be going wrong?