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So I'm considering purchasing HQPlayer Pro, so that I can pre-upsample my entire library. But someone on a group I'm in mentioned that apparently it can only do 384khz FLAC output, not 768khz. Can anyone confirm if this is indeed the case?

And if so, is there any way to use HQPlayer Pro to upsample my library to 768khz whilst retaining metadata/tagging? Or would I need to look at alternatives?

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

That's the case, because FLAC is limited to max 384k and also 24-bit. With WAV for example you can reach higher.

 

If you want just PCM, why would you upsample the library instead of doing it on the fly with regular HQPlayer?

 

Mostly just so I can have more reactive control. I find myself using sinc-m the most lately, but oh boy does it take a while to respond once you've paused/skipped etc. Not at all the fault of HQPlayer of course, just something that I'd like to avoid.

So upsampling ahead of time, and then playing those files directly in roon would fix that.
Also I get occasional popping/clicking @ 768khz with HQPlayer NAA on my sms200 ultra (and pi4 for that matter) but not native roon so hopefully it would sort that too. 

Can HQPlayer pro upsample to AIFF @768khz and keep tags/metadata?

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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Also, could you (or someone else in the know) give me some filter advice?

Is there a benefit to closed-form-M over sinc-M or vice versa? I'm unsure what the differences here would be.

And also, when upsampling to 352.8/384khz would it be more advisable to stay on LNS15? Or move to NS5?


I guess my question is: If upsampling to 384/352.8khz, are there some unquestionably "best" settings? Or will some of these simply just be 'different'

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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@Miska Thank you so much for all the information. I really really appreciate it.
One final question I had, I know that in the past you'd said to use a bit depth of 20 for the holo spring 2.

Is this the same for the may? (Which measures slightly better). I wasn't sure if I should set it to 20 or something else

It has a dynamic range/SNR of just over 140dB according to atomicbob's measurements. Though I know DR and SINAD aren't the same. I wasn't sure what measurement you should actually be using when choosing what bit-depth to select in HQPlayer.KTE May USB ASIO 44K Bal 160 dBFS scale redux (1).pdf
 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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  • 1 month later...

Is the "Pseudo-Multibit ASDM7EC" modulator an option in the menu or a change to the ASDM7EC modulator itself? @Miska

I'm using a Holo Audio May but cannot see any new options I don't think?
(I'm using SMS200 Ultra as an endpoint, does the DAC have to be connected directly?)

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

It is listed as "AMSDM7EC 512+fs", last item on the modulator list.

 

Ah thank you!

Could you elaborate a bit on what "pseudo-multibit" means? How does this modulator differ from the standard ASDM7EC etc?
Thank you so much!

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, bobflood said:

Right now there is no hardware that can run this modulator at DSD 512. There is a non-EC version that you can run at 512. I asked the same question and did not get an answer.

Not realtime, but it could be run with HQPlayer Pro 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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  • 5 months later...

has anyone been able to get 1.536mhz working with an NAA?
I've tried with both a pi4 (USB 3 and USB 2 ports) and my sms200 ultra but cannot get it to work.

1.536mhz direct from PC is fine. But from NAA it plays at half-speed, and sounds incredibly robotic/distorted. The dac (holo may) is recognising 1.536mhz though. Not sure if this is a network issue or something else.
This occurs regardless of HQP Buffer settings

Does ALSA do 1.536mhz?

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, should work fine with the UP Gateway + NAA OS. This same applies also for doing DSD1024. I think I've tested both Holo Spring 2 and T+A HA 200.

 

32x PCM also works from my iMac when DAC Bits is set to 16. If you have incompatible software/hardware, you need to set DAC Bits to 16 to make it work. There's no quality loss if you use proper noise shaper like LNS15, NS9 or NS5.

 

With Spring (1 or 2) or May, set DAC Bits to minimum 16, but maximum 20.

 

So I've tried a few things, using different sources, buffer settings, USB 3.0 vs 2.0 port, even changing USB cable, but so far not much luck other than one change;
When I use the HQP NAA image, the music plays at the correct speed, but sounds robotic and distorted (video here: https://streamable.com/mikhdf )
When I use RopieeeXL or my SMS200 Ultra, it plays at half-speed AND sounds robotic/distorted.

The video above shows the issue i'm having.
Do you know what might be causing this?

The only other thing I can really think of would be my networking somehow? Though i'm not doing anything particularly unusual there. Just normal asus router with standard config.

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

On which hardware? It needs to be something with Intel USB controller.

 

 

Yes, you need to have right combination of hardware and software.

 

Ah, i'm using the sotm SMS200 Ultra, and a raspberry pi 4. Does that mean it won't be possible to use 1.536mhz on either of those?

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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6 minutes ago, giordy60 said:

on naa I use both gentoo (on usb stick) and the image of Miska 411 for windows ....
no problem reproducing the pcm 1536mhz.
on the server the s.o. it's windows server2016

yeah it seems any intel machine is fine. 
My AMD PC also doesn't have an issue with it, can do 1.536mhz direct from my pc without issue.

But so far any NAA/streamer i've tried I get the robot issue. I'd really like to be able to avoid having to swap my streamer out for a nuc to get it working if possible but I don't know if there will be a choice. 

The SMS200 Ultra is using some customised USB solution with their own clocks. Sotm says that there is no reason as far as they're aware that 1.536mhz shouldn't work, but they do not have a 1.536mhz capable dac to test it. 

As far as the raspberry pi 4, bandwidth shouldn't be an issue, so I'm guessing as Jussi suggested it's a hardware thing.

Does anyone know WHY some non-intel stuff won't work? Would looove to get this working on my sms200 ultra

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

You don't need anything as big as NUC. A small Intel Atom-based device/boards is enough.

 

Its more that i'd rather keep using my SMS200 ultra instead.
768khz is fine though I think, its a shame the non-intel controllers don't work for 1.536mhz :( (though some do, my AMD pc is fine as mentioned)

Is there a particular reason known for why that is? Or chance it might work in future?

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Miskawould you be able to explain what the differences between asdm7ec and asdm7ec 512+fs are? I'm not sure which one is in theory better or why.

 

(also, what exactly is the difference between the ec and non ec modulators?) 

 

Thank you! 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/13/2021 at 1:08 AM, Miska said:

 

If someone "fixes" the hardware (chip design)...

 

So a friend of mine has 1.536mhz working on his pi4 (his sotm sms200 ultra doesn't work, same as mine though). But my pi4 doesn't. 

 

Might his pi4 have a different USB controller? Is there something in particular I can look out for or a way to get it working on non-intel stuff? 

He's using a denafrips dac. No idea if that makes a difference. (I'd imagine not given as his sms200 still has the same problem)

 

You mentioned you had a solution earlier but I wasnt sure if that meant you had a solution that would be implemented in hqp in future (which would be amazing :D), or if the solution was just to use Intel

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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  • 1 month later...

Out of curiosity has anyone here tried 1.536mhz running through a product such as the ifi iGalvanic 3.0?

I've recently ordered an intel NUC to use 1.536mhz and was hoping that I might be able to use the iGalvanic 3.0 without issue as it does seem to appear 'transparent' to the PC for lack of a better word. As in, there is no USB controller labelled as the igalvanic. It does just seem that the connecting device is presented to the PC as if the igalvanic was not there.

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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@Miska

I have a nuc coming tomorrow which I'll be setting up as a roon core and also hqplayer naa (actual hqplayer processing will be done on my main pc). 

 

In your opinion is it better to have naa running on Windows with ASIO or Linux with ALSA? 

 

Im not going to be running anything else on it and both roon and hqplayer naa can of course be run on either so I wanted to get your two cents on if there was a reason to pick one or the other. 

 

As far as I'm aware ALSA and asio should be functionally identical right? 

Is there an advantage to one or the other, or to NAA's Linux vs Windows version? 

 

Thanks! 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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40 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Certainly Linux with the NAA OS or HQPlayer OS image.

 

 

Functionally somewhat similar, but technically very different already because of different OS.

 

 

Linux is primary platform for NAA. Windows and macOS version exists just because it is possible, for some obscure corner cases where it is not possible to run OS purpose built for NAA.

 

Thank you!
Is there functionally much difference between using the NAA image vs a standard linux distro and installing NAA on that?

I'm intending to use the NUC for both roon core and HQP NAA but was curious if there was a benefit to having a device with the NAA image only installed

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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@Miskawould you be able to tell us a little about the new sinc-Mx and ext3 filters?

 

What does the 'constant time' thing mean? 

 

Also are you able to talk about what causes the apodising filter indicator to go off? 

 

Thank you! 

Looking forward to trying the new update tomorrow :) 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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Well, got the NUC set up with windows yesterday. Switched to linux (ubuntu 20.04) today. Won't run 1.536mhz via NAA :(
768khz is fine, but 1.536mhz is a no go.

Additionally with the HQP NAA OS installed on another intel x5 mini pc, that 'works' but I get pauses every few seconds. Whereas with windows installed on it it's fine.

Looks like windows might be the only option to run roon and HQP NAA without issues :(

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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@Miskado you know what might be causing intermittent pausing with an NAA?
I have an intel atom x5 based device running HQPlayer NAA x64 image.

768khz works 100% fine.
1.536mhz works mostly fine, but every 5-10 seconds it'll pause and then resume after ~2 secs. It's almost as if my PC running the HQP server can't keep up, even though if I play locally it's fine. And if I do a bench with the HQP Pro trial then I'm upsampling >10x realtime.

Changing filter settings doesn't help :(
When running the NAA on windows on the same device the issue was not present

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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So I don't know if anyone else has had the same issue but I've been fighting trying to get 1.536mhz working for a while now:

i7NUC/Windows: Works fine
i7NUC/Ubuntu20.04: 768khz fine but 1.536mhz is static/awful
x5miniPC/Windows: Works fine but gets hot enough that fans come on so not ideal
x5miniPC/NAAimage: sounds fine, but pauses every couple seconds on 1.536mhz. 768khz is fine
x5miniPC/Ubuntu: same as NUC, 768khz is fine but 1.536mhz is awful

So it seems like Ubuntu just does not work regardless of hardware. And NAA image I can't get to work without it pausing every few seconds.
The only software option which is working fine is windows which is....odd.

Anyone got any tips as to why ubuntu isn't working or why NAA image pauses? Would REALLY like to not have to run windows as @Miska said that for NAA linux is better, but also cause with windows it gets hotter and the fans come on whereas with linux temps were low enough for them to stay off

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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16 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Make sure to say which DAC you’re using. It could have issues with the Linux driver. 

It's the holo audio may.
I'm not sure why it sort of works on the NAA (but seemingly limited by something given the stuttering) but then not at all on ubuntu?

Pulling my hair out a bit 😕
Couldn't use my previous streamer because 1.536mhz seemingly won't work without intel.
Ordered and was hoping to use the NUC for everything but it's far too loud to have in the same room.
So figured I'd use this but it's looking like that's not going to be an option either.

Really hoping there is a 'simple' way to get 1.536mhz working without literally having to just replace my entire main PC with an intel machine


EDIT: seems like the issue on this device might possibly be because it doesn't seem to have an actual intel USB controller?

 

cameron@audioendpoint:~$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 05e3:0620 Genesys Logic, Inc. USB3.2 Hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 0d8c:0014 C-Media Electronics, Inc. Audio Adapter (Unitek Y-247A)
Bus 001 Device 006: ID 152a:87c0 Thesycon Systemsoftware & Consulting GmbH 802.11ac NIC
Bus 001 Device 005: ID 1a40:0101 Terminus Technology Inc. Hub
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 05e3:0610 Genesys Logic, Inc. 4-port hub
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 0bda:c820 Realtek Semiconductor Corp. 802.11ac NIC
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

Not entirely sure. But that wouldn't explain why it does mostly work with the NAA image

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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4 minutes ago, lpost said:

Sorry you're pulling your hair out. This can be frustrating. Do you have just the two machines in the mix? Your existing powerful PC and the new NUC (which model?)? Are you trying to get to a single machine or what is the goal with the NUC?

 

I've had success by separating Roon on Windows, HQPe image and NAA image on three separate machines. The most powerful is the HQPe machine but only a i7-6770 retired business machine from 2017. The NAA is the inexpensive, silent and cool running UP-board gateway SoC. It does 32fs 20-bit perfectly for several months nearly continuously while running my May in.

 

Seems like a NUC is overkill for a NAA device and clearly the one you have doesn't work well at all for the job. Jussi's bootable NAA image is the best bet in my opinion. He's done all the hard work for us.

 

P.S. I'd like to try the new filters, patiently waiting for HQPe to be updated/released.

No need for an apology, it's hardly your fault! 😆
Thank you though

Three machines in all.
- Main AMD PC
- Intel NUC8i7INH
- Small atom x5 based mini PC
Plus a handful of streamers/raspberry pis etc which don't work either because they aren't intel.

Problem is the main PC is AMD so won't work for 1.536mhz
Intel NUC is far too loud to have in the same room (and didn't work with 1.536mhz when I put ubuntu on it to check)
And then the mini PC I can't seem to get working properly no matter what.

The UP Board is seemingly not easy to find in the UK and would cost probably ~£300 by the time shipping&VAT was factored in so that's not an ideal option unfortunately. 
The NAA image on the mini pc is the closest to "working" that I've gotten things, but still no luck. I'm just not sure what the limiting factor is that's causing the intermittent pausing.

I don't really know what else to try other than buying a used chromebook and trying to put the NAA image on that but that's hardly the most elegant solution and isn't guaranteed to work either.
Even the intel compute stick which I did think about for a while has a fan in it so that could potentially be too noisy as well.

I'm trying really hard to avoid spending >£300 on a fanless intel build but it's incredibly frustrating that none of the stuff I have here is working even when it should.
If I could find out what the limiting factor is on the atom x5 based mini PC that would be ideal. But unfortunately it doesn't seem that the NAA itself keeps logs

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:


This SBC with NAA image and fanless case work awesome at 32fs. 
 

 

https://www.lattepanda.com/products/lattepanda-alpha-864s.html

 

https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1901.html

That does look like quite a neat product!

Though for now I'm trying not to spend too much on an endpoint as I'm already spending more than I wanted to given as the NUC didn't work out as I'd hoped. 

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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