HQ Player

[Gavin1977]

It is my understanding that the Closed Form filter was implemented by Jussi to be a close match for Robs WTA filter.  I have both a Hugo TT and T+A DAC 8 DSD in my home at the moment.  I preferred the Hugo TT until I started using the T+A DAC 8 DSD using the Close Form filter... to me it sounds very 'Chord' like and it was a bit of a revelation (I obviously have a preference for this).

 

The Closed Form filter is probably more realistic, as the bass has firmed up and has more transient 'snap' now.  However, it would be nice to be able to allow the bass to bloom a bit more, as I find this warms up the tone throughout the frequency range... any ideas? 

 

The Hugo TT sounds considerably less controlled and wooly in the bass in comparision, and whilst this is a downgrade I suspect this bass bleed is one reason why it has a warmer sound signature.  So would like to know if there is any setting in HQPlayer that might allow some adjustment towards this.

 

I will also try Sync-M settings over the next couple of days as per AustinPops post.

[Gavin1977]

HQPlayer embedded works great as a UPnP AV Renderer, but I want to run the same thing in Windows (T+A DAC 8 Drivers allow full sample rate in Windows).

 

Any way of getting the UPnP AV Renderer functionality in Windows?

[Gavin1977]

Another question has also now arisen - I've tried this on HQPlayer embedded and also HQPlayer Windows.  HQPlayer always defaults to PCM, I can never get it to output DSD.  Settings are as follows:

 

[Gavin1977]

12 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

SDM Pack

Cheers - one would presume that 'native DSD' means it doesn't need DOP.  Obviously it does.  Shame T+A don't put this in their manual.

[Gavin1977]

2 hours ago, craighartley said:

T+A doesn’t need DOP

 

Thats what I thought...In Windows using the official driver only WASAPI driver is visible in HQ Player, no AISO (which is visible on Linux / Mac) ...  should there be an AISO driver in Windows?

 

It's working fine using DOP, but I guess it's somewhat compromised...

[Gavin1977]

Direct SDM is HQPlayer passthrough settings - direct with no upsampling as suggested.

 

Native DSP is what T+A refer to the DAC 8DSD beign capable of, which I presume means no DOP...

[Gavin1977]

18 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Try changing backend to ASIO? T+A driver should come with ASIO support as well.

 

Thanks - I reinstalled the drivers and this time ASIO driver now visible...  Must have been some error with the driver install (this is a clean install of windows).

 

But very interesting - Playback does occur when using the ASIO (SDM Pack = none) driver, but it is choppy unlistenable.  If I enable DOP under SDMPack, then playback does not occur.

 

So back to WASAPI, DOP enabled - Sync M and SDS7 DSD512 playback smooth as butter.

 

So I am conused with the ASIO driver behaviour... maybe this is why I have been having problems in Linux?  Another member here told me that T+A DAC 8 DSD was natively supported in Gentoo Player/Audiolinux etc... (I couldn't get output at 64, 128 or higher and am unsure if 512 works without updating the firmware anyway).

[Gavin1977]

On 6/22/2020 at 2:25 PM, AnotherSpin said:

 

In addition to Sync-M it would be useful to try newest Sync-L. And Sync-S, which is quite different from the first two, because it is apodizing filter what can have an advantage when listening to some old recordings, such as rock from 70s - 80s. 

Thanks to @AnotherSpin for the heads up - settled on Sync-M and DSD7.  In my setup this has almost the same soundstage as Closed-16M (which originally got me into HQ Player), but there is less shrillness to it and vocals are presented in a slightly more forward way... which I like.

[Gavin1977]

8 minutes ago, MemoryPlayer said:

Since when WASAPI is working with DSD512?

I think WASAPI is limited to DSD128, am I wrong?

Definately confirmed working in Windows, DAC 8 DSD display confirming DSD512.

 

I downloaded the driver today, so don't know how it compares with older versions.  Windows Home 10 (all latest updates installed).  Perhaps you're thinking about the DSD 128 limitation under Linux?

[Gavin1977]

17 hours ago, Yviena said:

 with the right fans you can reach under 30dba noise from your sitting position using the bios to dial in fan speeds which is probably quiet enough.

 

 

On another note I can't  believe  how some people particularly  at ASR cannot hear the difference between filters, with the right track i can 100% reliably tell that closed-form M shifts the position  of instruments a little, i also notice some small differences in reverb/echo decay in bells between sinc-L/closed-form M, and poly-sinc ext2 with Sinc-L having the best decay followed by ext2 which sound more similar in the decay, while I feel that closed-form  M cuts the reverb a tiny bit more quickly.

I hear exactly the same difference.

 

Anyone have any tips for getting Sync L to work on 8700k without dropouts?  I’m presently just using Windows to test with T+A DAC 8 DSD as I need the new firmware before the DAC will take DSD512 in Linux.

 

I switched to ‘high performance’ mode in Windows as Jussi suggested, but stutter remains

 

Thanks

[Gavin1977]

How do I enable adaptive output rate in HQPlayer embedded?

[Gavin1977]

On 7/14/2020 at 4:14 PM, Gavin1977 said:

How do I enable adaptive output rate in HQPlayer embedded?

@Miska any feedback on this?

 

I also assume that multicore dsp is enabled as default in HQPlayer embedded?

[Gavin1977]

@Miska with Intel gearing up their new Xe GPU / Tiger lake, any ambitions or relevance to considering OpenCL rather than, or in additon to CUDA?

 

Might be lower latency and easier on thermal / power requirements.

[Gavin1977]

23 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

Jussi, thank you very much for the information.

 

Just for control. When upsampling a CD resolution (44.1 / 16) to 1,411.2, are we talking about 4,194,240 (131070 x 32) tabs? Sensational! That is four times as much as a CHORD HUGO M SCALER.

 

I love the sound of the PCM / Sync-L. I'm not sure yet whether it will top DSD with ASDM7EC. But it's getting dangerous. 😄

 

For the CPU, the load of 1-7% is a piece of cake.

 

Great feedback - I have T+A DAC8 DSD, so making me consider switching to Denafrips to do up sampling in PCM due to lower CPU requirements.  Good to know it’s close.  Further comparison would be great!

 

I don’t know what CPU clock rates would be required for Sinc-L, DSD512 and EC modulator.  I would consider water cooling if it was achievable as I’m keen to avoid GPU.

[Gavin1977]

19 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Because HQPlayer Embedded stores information on disk and ramdisk is not persistent storage. In addition there's no point in doing that because the OS disk activity is minimal and the only notable activity is the content, for which there's no point in storing it on ramdisk because it would take huge amount of memory and long time to transfer (depending how large your library is).

 

Closest to persistent RAM storage is to use Optane M.2 storage for the OS and HQPlayer Embedded. Then it is pretty similar to ramdisk.

 

Interesting... because I've been running Gentoo Player and HQPlayer Embedded in RAM  (16GB Apacer) all this time and worked great.  So is it suggested that I shouldn't be doing this?

[Gavin1977]

On 6/27/2020 at 3:39 PM, Gavin1977 said:

HQPlayer embedded works great as a UPnP AV Renderer, but I want to run the same thing in Windows (T+A DAC 8 Drivers allow full sample rate in Windows).

 

Any way of getting the UPnP AV Renderer functionality in Windows?

Anyone had any further ideas on this?  I've found that Open Home player is a great piece of software for windows, but no way of passing through to HQ Player, it only outputs PCM straight to DAC.

 

I know Miska said that "UPnP feature the way it is implemented now in Embedded is not feasible for Desktop", but perhaps the Open Home Player code is?

[Gavin1977]

17 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Maybe one day it'll work under WSL. Last time I tried it was the UPnP component that failed. But Microsoft is actively developing WSL so there is hope. You would still need to have NAA somewhere, either at native Windows side on the same machine or somewhere else for audio input/output, but that is not a problem or at least lesser one.

 

Since Open Home is built off upnp, has full source code availability and control is there a need to wait?

 

I ask because I'm still using the trial version, if HQPlayer could recieve openhome/upnp then I don't see the reason for me to hold off on purchase anymore, as the need to use a suppporting linux based player such as gentoo, roon, euphony and so forth (and the extra layer of complexity they add) would no longer be required.  Game over.

[Gavin1977]

23 hours ago, Miska said:

 

What source code are you talking about exactly? Under what kind of license terms? If you are talking about the Linn stuff, last time I checked years ago the source code wasn't really available under any open terms.

 

Next question would be suitability of the source code in first place for HQPlayer and the license terms. Then it would be possibly some months of work to integrate it to HQPlayer.

 

 

Why would you need Gentoo, Roon or Euphony? I don't have any Gentoo or Euphony here. I have Roon I use sometimes, but it is of course optional extra. You just boot HQPlayer OS firmware and you are done. You don't need to know or think about the OS itself.

 

http://openhome.org/pages/openhomelabs/

 

I just like the extra functionality provided by these software packages.

 

I will try boot of HQPlayer OS later - very few people have written about it.  Thanks

[Gavin1977]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

It is the HQPlayer Embedded, reference implementation of HQPlayer Embedded based device firmware.

 

Just to say that it works a treat - the only thing I had to do was set it up as an open home renderer using bubbleupnp on my NAS... but I always have problems with devices not picking up upnp... hence the openhome investigations.

 

Any benefits running it from an HDD/SSD/M2 drive?

[Gavin1977]

Still playing with my setup...

 

Steaming from Logitech Media Server to HQPlayer embedded via Linn Kazoo.  Tidal works fine, however most of my local files are in Apple Lossless .m4a and won't play.  What file formats does HQPlayer embedded work with?

 

I like embedded metadata, so wav is a no go for me.  Does AIFF work?  Or any any method of transcoding any file formal in LMS to send to HQPlayer in wav?

[Gavin1977]

9 minutes ago, LoryWiv said:

FLAC.

FLAC & wav only?

[Gavin1977]

3 hours ago, antonellocaroli said:

you could use MinimSever and apply the transcoder, so you can also listen to online radio if it makes sense....I have never tried but it should work

Hurrah!  That worked.  Bit of a faff / lack of step-by-step instructions, but minim sounds great with HQPlayer. 

 

Details in case anyone else wants to do this with HQPlayer:

• Synology NAS:  Install MinimServer 2.0 (manual install at present as it's not yet uploaded on the Synology package repository).  Also install ffmpeg from community installs (I'm not sure if this is installed automatically or not, but I installed it anyway).
• Mac or Windows: Install MinimWatch - this allows you to configure MinimServer 2.0.  One installed, go to Packages and install MinimStreamer.
• Once MinimStreamer is installed go to the system tab in MinimWatch and enter ALAC:WAV, MP3:WAV etc as required in the stream.transcode field.  Click apply.

Now all my music files regardless of format works with HQPlayer embedded.

 

Will run this a bit longer, but so far this is the best sounding and also most stable software combination I have tried to date.  I just switch my on music server on and it works.  That's great, and just how it should be - less faffing with software when all you want to do is listen to music.

 

I might see if I can find a robust small motherboard mounted USB SSD 'thumb drive' so HQPlayer doesn't have to hang out of the back of the PC on a cheapo USB memory stick.

[Gavin1977]

So, HQPlayer embedded really is the very best sounding (and most expensive) ‘endpoint’ I have ever owned.
 

But what uPnP media servers are people using to send their music to HQPlayer embedded?

 

I am thinking that a dedicated network player, with its own app (to serve Tidal, local files on minimserver and all the other services etc... integrated) would be great.  So far only Melcos seem to do this and will output a upnp stream to other devices.

 

Any bits of hardware out there that could, for example take the usb audio stream from a bluesound node and send it onwards via upnp to HQPlayer?

 

I’m using Linn Kazoo at the moment and works really very well, but there is an ease to having a commercial server because of the ecosystem it can bring.

[Gavin1977]

“It can utilize both digital and analog inputs from various devices and output audio processed through the advanced DSP pipeline.”

Input hardware:

• RME HDSPe AIO
• RME ADI-2 Pro FS/Pro FS BE/Pro A

so how does that work then?

[Gavin1977]

13 hours ago, Miska said:

 

You have lot of options if you don't need support for DSD content. With MinimServer also DSD content works, but it can be sometimes sluggish on track changes, thanks to Java VM it runs on.

 

On the other hand, for local content I recommend using HQPlayer's library features instead of streaming from UPnP Server. It is much better and more efficient way.

 

If you just want Tidal and Qobuz, plus local content, you can do all needed control with mConnect Player (HD for tablets) and HQPDcontrol apps.

 

For desktop clients, for streaming services Roon or Audirvana work as front-end and for local content in HQPlayer library you can use HQPlayer Client.

 

 

I have not tried USB audio output from Node, but I have optical output from Node 2i to HQPlayer Embedded functional through RME ADI-2 Pro and/or HDSPe AIO.

 

OTOH, in my opinion it doesn't offer much value apart from Spotify things. Amazon Music Unlimited doesn't work here with Node and I don't have Deezer or such.

 

Features:

• USB Audio Class 2 inputs

So could any USB streamer (my example here was based a BlueSound Node) be used as an input, with HQPLAYER embedded then acting as an ‘mscaler’ in the chain?

I have never tried connecting a usb streamer in this way.  My JCat USB XE has dual USB ports.

 

Chain would look like this

USB streamer -> USB in -> HQPLAYER embedded-> USB out -> DAC