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Well, I thought that everything sounded great with poly-sync-xtr-2s on my studio system (44.1 PCM>256 DSD)- though I am always moving stuff about - y'know. As I was sifting through settings I stumbled on Closed-Form-16M. Bigger picture, fuller sound, sweeter treble. Damn, I'm going to be up late. It is super lovely. @Miska, this is a thing of beauty!

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1 hour ago, Le Concombre Masqué said:

we could ALL HERE agree on a few reference tracks, resolution and mastering defined, ie RB Glenn Gould's Goldberg + a few other tracks. I have also published my measured response curves.

 

 

It's a good thought. I would argue that tastes, systems and rooms vary wildly enough as to make establishing a clear guide challenging. Perhaps establishing a reference point might be a better frame?  Happy to share system info as a reference point:

 

Home - W10 Roon Server>HQPlayer>LAN>W10Mac Mini>HQP Daemon>ASIO>USB>Intona>SU-1>I2S>Holo Spring>Heed Obelisk>Harbeths.

 

and

 

Studio - W10 Roon Server>LAN>Workstation>USB>Intona>Denafrips ARES>Schiit Freya>Neumann KH120a

 

I listen mostly Tidal 44.1>HQPlayer>DSD512 or DSD256. Everything from solo piano to 70's glam, to Pole, Radiohead, Reich.... In both systems, I found that closedform 16-M ---- across the board ---- to be preferable to xtr in DSD256. I cannot get 16M  to run in 512 on my server.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 5 months later...

Hi. I have just purchased an RME-ADI2 Dac - it's in transit right now. I am considering running it with HQ Player into a Schiit Freya and then out to powered Neumann KH120a monitors. I have a couple of questions:

 

- When upressing PCM to DSD in HQ Player, is there an audible difference between running the ADI-2 DSD Direct and normally (really this question is about using the RME as a pre instead of the Freya).

- What DAC bit level should I set for this DAC?

- I know that @Miska, you run an RME, any other pointers for acheiving a happy relationship between the RME and HQ Player?

 

I would certain appreciate any thoughts.

 

Thanks,

 

- J

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I also recommend to pay attention on selecting suitable output reference level. I'm using +13 dBu. 

 

Thank-you for taking the time to respond. I have been using a Denafrips ARES in this setup up until now. It would get a bit noisy in DSD, so I am looking forward to the RME.

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Hi. I am excited about HQP4 and have been playing with it for a few days now.

 

I have just discovered an odd behaviour with 4.01. I am using an RME ADI-2 DAC fs. When I have the headphones plugged in and engage HQ player, the RME switches to Line out, muting the phones. This is not the case with HQplayer 3.5. I tried offsetting the channels in HQ player 4, thinking that perhaps the ASIO driver would see the headphone out as ch 3/4 but I did not have success with this.

 

The RME switches between phones and line properly when using the optical input just fine.

 

Any input would be helpful.

 

- J

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14 hours ago, JTS said:

I have just discovered an odd behaviour with 4.01. I am using an RME ADI-2 DAC fs. When I have the headphones plugged in and engage HQ player, the RME switches to Line out, muting the phones.

Never mind. I figured it out - user error 🙂

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have a HQP/DAC question. Up until about a month ago, I had been happily using a Denafrips ARES with HQP in my suite at the studio (video). DSD 256 with the polysinc series of filters provided me with a solid year of great listening. I had a late night of listening with a recording engineer colleague and he pointed out the noisiness of the ARES in DSD.

 

After he pointed out the noisiness (the top end sounded a bit hashy), I played with a lot of settings but could not stop hearing the hashiness. I did not get this in PCM, but preferred the sense of space and staging in DSD. Long story short, I sold the ARES and picked up an RME ADI-2 DAC fs. I have a love/hate relationship with it and think I am going to sell it. While it is laser-beam sharp, precise, and accurate - I find it uninvolving, VERY unkind to shitty recordings (I'm and omnivore and love the high and low brow), and less fluid than the ARES.

 

I am looking into replacing the RME with something more like, but better than, the ARES. I have a Holo Spring in my home setup, which I adore.

 

My chain is W10 ROON>HQP>DSD Upsample>USB>INTONA>USB>DAC>BAL>SCHIIT FREYA (passive for work, tubes for fun)>BAL>NEUMANN KH120a.

 

I am curious what dacs you are using with HQ Player and how you like them. The Holo Spring would be ideal for me but it is too massive for the desk. Good and accurate-ish PCM sound is must for work and I am wondering about moving to a more PCM-centric chain with the Soekris 1521 or the Holo CYAN PCM. Ideally, though, it would be great to have a DAC the has good PCM and DSD abilities.

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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I have Never heard Any DSD Noise, on any Dac, ever.

 

Thanks @jimdukey. I was surprised, too. It manifests as hashiness in cymbals and rain and stuff like that on the ARES. Once I heard it, I could not stop hearing it.

 

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Jussi recommends upsampling everything to DSD 256

 

Yah. I was doing this with the ARES and also with the RME. I just don't really dig the RME sound. With the Neumanns it's just too sharp - almost strident. In DSD direct mode, I can't try and fix it with EQ. It's also how the RME images as well. It's a bit business-before-pleasure for my tastes.

 

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I just have Mytek 192/DSD, Lampi Euforia, Mac D 150, all fine in DSD 128, with HQ.

 

Thanks. I was looking at the Liberty, but think it might be a bit of the same in terms of "analytic" detail. I will look into your other DACs listed here.

 

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2 hours ago, Miska said:

Holo Spring and Denafrips come to mind as dual-DAC.

 

I, too, am interested in DACs that will do both PCM and DSD well - work and pleasure.

 

I currently have a Holo Spring LV2 at home and it sounds thrusty and great in NOS PCM, but really amazing in DSD with HQ Player (w intona and su-1).

 

I had a Denafrips ARES at work, for a year or so, until a few weeks ago. I found it fluid with deep staging and a rich sound. It was good in PCM and really involving in DSD with HQP. I recently sold it, looking for a more accurate/resolving dual PCM/DSD DAC, and purchased an RME ADI-2 Dac fs.

 

I really (really) disliked the RME when I first got it - i found it had a fatiguing, lightweight sound and small staging. I have been working on various configurations with it at work for a couple weeks now and feel like I am beginning to really appreciate its talents. I also feel that it has mellowed and rounded out some - maybe my brain, maybe getting all the signals balanced between RME, pre amp, and active monitors, or perhaps some burn-in on the the bits and bobs. Whatever the change, I actually feel that it is quite smooth now.


It's certainly more analytic and thinner in its presentation than the Holo Spring and the ARES, but there is something to be said for its clarity, deeply quiet background, quickness, and sharp imaging. It feels quite nimble to me now.The RME works great in PCM for work and it is more interesting in DSD with HQ Player for listening fun.

 

 

I would be curious about other PCM/DSD DACs out there.

 

I would LOVE to hear the bigger Denafrips models - R2R with big big power supplies and all those tiny caps...

 

- J

 

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7 hours ago, Miska said:

I can also add it as display to the main window, that is not a problem. 

 

+1 on this. I use ROON with HQP and loved having the ability to work with the filters in on the main interface of Desktop 3.x. It made it quick to run through filter/modulator options with minimal clicks.

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8 hours ago, Miska said:

 

RME has just one type of DAC inside, AKM's DAC chip that is SDM converter. So it cannot be really compared in PCM/DSD sense to Holo Spring or Denafrips.

 

Understood. I think the thing I am responding to is my perceived sound quality differences between the the AKM chip and the R2R technology of the Ares/Holo Spring.

 

8 hours ago, Miska said:

With ADI-2 it is important to check that the DSD Direct is enabled. If you are using 7th order modulator in HQPlayer, you could try setting the DSD filter in ADI-2 to 50 kHz. Alternatively you can try 5th order modulator in HQPlayer with ADI-2 filter set to either 50 or 150 kHz.

 

Yes. I have DSD Direct enabled. I've tried both 7th order and 5th order modulators. I am slowly working my way through filter and modulator combinations. Currently I'm circling around using the DSDx 256+fs modulators in combination with straight up Polysinc-mp and polysinc short-mp.

 

8 hours ago, Miska said:

With these comparisons you may find the character you are looking for. Another thing to pay attention to is selection of reference level in ADI-2 to avoid clipping in preamp on loud peaks, for my preamp +13 dBu is suitable. 

 

 

Yes! When I first dropped the RME it sounded HORRIBLE, because had it running at +13dBu BAL into a Schiit Freya>Neumann KH120As. I had to full attenuate my Neumanns, timpot and all, to get a reasonable volume level on the Freya when using SS or Tube gain. I think I was getting a ton of clipping in the Freya, too.

 

 In the end, I am now running the RME at +1 dBu with the trimpots on the Neumanns at 0 and it sounds much better.

 

8 hours ago, Miska said:

T+A DAC8 DSD is also one, but the PCM side is based on TI DAC chips which are really SDM converters, so it doesn't have pure PCM like the RME doesn't either. But DAC8 DSD has a discrete pure DSD DAC for the DSD side. However, rates higher than DSD128 require Windows, or replacing the USB interface firmware and use of Linux.

 

I am going to sit with the RME for another month or so and see where I end up with it. It is growing on me. I will take a look at the T+A dac and also drag the holo spring to the studio and see how it feels there.

 

Thank-you for your input, Miska.

 

- Justin.

 

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I just updated to 4.02 and I am experiencing an issue with the volume control in DSD mode. With the volume up full in the desktop interface, I get a very quiet output when using DSD.

 

If I change the Vol Min settings to -3dB in the preferences everything works fine - the volume is fixed at -3dB. Here is a cap of the settings with which I am experiencing this issue.

 

This issue does not happen in PCM, nor did I experience it in 4.01.

 

Capture.thumb.PNG.6fef9b6f828ea45006b7745ffad7a65c.PNG

 

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

How is the volume knob when that happens? I have not seen such happening here, so would need to figure out what is different and be able to reproduce... 

 

 

The volume knob does not go red. I can move it up and down with no change to the volume.  I had a moment yesterday, while playing with filters, in which it worked correctly - the volume appeared red and I could not move it. This went away, though.Capture.thumb.PNG.1818792e2469694020fb3dfd8d147f4b.PNG

 

Edit. Just saw your edit. Great!

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  • 1 month later...

+1 on this. I am curious. I have been bouncing between poly-sinc-ext2, close-form-16m and polysinc-xtr-mp. My playback chain in my work suite where I do most of my listening:

 

Tidal -> Roon -> HQPlayer -> [filter] -> [modulator] -> DSD256 -> USB -> Intona-> RME ADI-2 DAC fs (in DSD direct mode)-> Schiit Freya -> Neumann KH120As

 

I listen principally to studio recorded music. Looking at my testing playlist and pulling a few tracks out: Songs: Ohia, Lioness; Mattew E. White, One of These Days; The Books, Group Autogenics I; Bjork, Crystalline; Sparklehorse, Shade and Honey; Gorillaz, Revolving Doors; James Blake, Limit to Your Love; T. Rex, Spaceball Ricochet etc.

 

I have not done any scientific testing here, but I find:

 

closed-form-16M - exciting to listen to, sharp, great separation and stereo imaging. A bit tiring with janglier stuff (non-apo?)

polysinc-xrt-mp - sharp but more mellow than closed form, again great stereo imaging and depth.

polysinc-ext2 - hard one for me to describe. I would say it's very clean and beautiful sounding. I somehow go to it less than 16M or XTR, though. I perhaps just need to give it more time.

 

This all changes around with the modulator. I am going in between DSD5V2, ADSM7, ADSM7 256+fs. All of them sound different though I mostly just stick to ADSM7.

 

I think I could probably do up a matrix and some notes when I have some time.

 

I would be super curious to hear other people's preferences and thoughts on the different filters/modulators and what type of music they might be listening to with them and on what type of system.

 

Any suggestions of things to try and why?

 

Funs!

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2 hours ago, luisma said:

I like closed-form as one of my favs, lately (last month or so) I have been using minringFIR-mp for 1x and Nx and it is very good too. 

 

There is some compromising on the filter and the CPU stressing, many have noticed that increasing the filter complexity will drive the CPU cores to max and this will increase noise generated within your PC's and could be potentially transmitted to your DAC, every system is different. 

 

 

Thanks for weighing in. I've never tried the MinringFIR filters. I will give them a shot. I'm on an i9-9900k with an allcore clock of 4.8GHz. HQ player usually sits around 5-6% and have never seen it go over 12% CPU with DSD256 (with PolySincXTR-MP). It would likely be a different story with 512 :-).

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8 minutes ago, Jerry said:

I think you will be fine at DSD512, my CPU is only i7-6700k and offloading to GTX1080, when I do 44.1kHz -> closed-form- 16M -> AMSDM7 512+fs -> DSD512, CPU utilisation is only around 40%, including also overhead from Roon and Tidal etc, I think there's still CPU resources to be utilised to improve sound quality...

I imagine I could. I use an RME ADI-2 in my suite, though, which had a max input of DSD 256. I used a Holo Spring at home and I can get 512 off an old HP Z420 with a GTX980 when I chose friendly settings 🙂 (I send it over LAN to a W10 mac mini running the HQP NAA. Intona, SU-1 etc). Sounds really very sweet.

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  • 3 weeks later...
56 minutes ago, sdmarquart said:

Sounds like you're saying Direct Mode is still the way to go.

 

Yes - that would be the idea. DSD direct is the way to go. It does not allow for most DSP functions on the ADI-2, though (including volume). I looked at the goldpoint a while ago. Looks great. I cannot speak to the vinyl chain, though. I'm 100% digital here.

 

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3 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

 it still show the spectrum analyzer on the front of the DAC? And what about other digital outputs like Optical and Coaxial? Those wouldn't be running DSD direct would they? Just trying to understand here..

 

 

Page 32 and 33 of their excellent manual goes over this. The analyzer functions in DSD Direct. Not sure about the other interfaces (S/PDIF, Toslink)  and not even sure they operate as outputs on the DAC fs. You could try stuff out or check the RME forum for answers on that (probably a better spot for this discussion, given that we are on the HQP thread here).

 

In my system the pre (Freya) runs the volume (and there's a remote!). The RME stays at -3.5 with DSD and PCM unless I'm using an outboard headphone amplifier (story for another thread).

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4 hours ago, sdmarquart said:

I just bit the bullet on the Freya +.

 

I have the original Freya and really like it. With HQP feeding the RME ADI-2 DAC fs in DSD direct mode and the Freya in Tube gain mode, it's a beautiful thing. I imagine the + to be a step up from my OG Freya.

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1 minute ago, sdmarquart said:

So, did running DSD Direct with the Tube gain give the digital sound some warmth?

 

It'll depend on your monitors and your room, but here yes, the tubes add to the experience! It is the reason I went for the Freya.

 

I run Neumann's (PCM with Freya in passive) for work - they're quite unforgiving and great for picking apart mixes. For listening pleasure, though, HQP DSD>RME in DSD direct>Freya in Tube mode is pretty engaging. Of course YMMV, but I dig it.

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I have 4.1.0 installed. I have been playing with the EC filters and they were running well here. I was starting to dig in to come comparative listening and HQP keeps crashing now. How might I troubleshoot this? I've rebooted, uninstalled and reinstalled couple times to see if that might help things to no avail.

 

W10 Roon Server>LAN>W10 (i9900k) w GTX1080 ROON>HQP 4.1.0>USB>RME ADI-2

 

I am crashing on any filter combination now.

 

Are there preferences I can delete? Where would I find them?

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, sdmarquart said:

hoping the tubes don’t color things too much.

 

I found that that HQP DSD + DSD Direct on the RME + Tubes on the Freya is less about colour and more about adding to the dynamics and the staging - again, this is dependant on your setup. You can get into tube rolling, too which is a money/rabbit hole. I run the NOS Sylvania GTBs here which are cheap and really like them. (This is PM or another thread, though).

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