HQ Player

[Rovo]

@Miska

Reading through this and other threads I did find some information (and perhaps I missed parts due to the amount), but could not find all the answers I was looking for. Therefore I would like to ask you some questions below.

 

Currently I am using a dual PC setup and a T+A DAC 8. I would like to upgrade the DAC to the T+A DAC 8 DSD in the very near future. The upgraded installation will be used with Roon to stream from Tidal (and/or Qobuz in the future) plus playing local files (ripped CD's and HiRes files) and upsampled to DSD512 (only upsampling, no convolution or anything else). To get the best from the T+A DAC 8 DSD both PC's (steamer and endpoint) will be upgraded too and of course with HQPlayer on the streamer and HQPlayer NAA on the endpoint. I can place the streamer in another room and have therefore less limitations on the hardware of the streamer (cooling, noise).

 

The end point PC is currently being built (and at first used/tested with RoonBridge). Some hardware details: Intel E-2236, linear power supply, JCat USB XE. For the software I would like to use Windows Server 2019 optimized (read: minimized) with Audiophile Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro and possibly Process Lasso. This running HQPlayer NAA. My question: Is this possible and are there some do's or don't's?

 

The streamer PC will have to do the "heavy lifting" and will be based on the Intel Core i9-10900K. For the software I would like to use Windows 10 Pro and Audiophile Optimizer. The task of this PC is to run Roon with HQPlayer with upsampling. My question: would this be a good software selection (focusing on sound quality) or would you have another suggestion and are there do's and don't's?

 

Roon is controlled from a tablet. Managing the settings of HQPlayer can this also be done from the tablet and if yes, which app is required?

 

In short: I would like the get the best from the T+A DAC 8 DSD with the help of HQPlayer.

 

Kind regards,

Robert

 

[Rovo]

8 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Stock Windows 10 Pro or Windows 10 for Workstations. Set power profile to High Performance or Ultimate performance.

 

Do not use any software that modifies Windows, or Process Lasso or any such.

 

Thank you for the quick reply. I already had the impression by the information in this thread that HQPlayer was best left alone to do it's job.

[Rovo]

9 hours ago, k6davis said:

 

What I prefer is a 3 PC setup. Each computer is optimized for and only runs one application.

• A modestly powered PC running Roon Core on Windows 10 or Windows Server, with Audiophile Optimizer if you like
• A powerful PC running the (free) HQP OS with (not free) HQP Embedded Version
• A micro-powered PC (like a NUC or a Pi4) running the HQP NAA image from USB

HQPlayer OS is a stripped down, zero-configuration-needed version of Linux fully optimized by Jussi to just run HQP. You can download a bootable USB image that contains both HQP OS and HQP Embedded. You configure Embedded with an easy to use web interface accessible from any device on the network. There's no need to install anything or change the hard drive on the powerful server in any way. It's reliable, stable, easy to use and sounds fantastic. You can try it out with a free trial. Until you buy an HQP Embedded license, the music stops playing after 30 minutes until you reboot the server.

 

For aesthetics and space savings, I use small form factor computers for both Roon Core and the NAA. 
 

Now that they're set up, I don't ever need to interact with any of the 3 PCs directly. None of the 3 computers even has a GUI. I use a 4th computer on the network to run the Roon client and for music library management and web surfing, YouTube, etc.

In this situation it indeed makes sense to use a 3 PC setup.

 

Did you have no problems installing NAA on WS2019?

 

How do you access the web interface for HQPlayer embedded?

 

[Rovo]

To answer Confused, my reasons to go with the 3 PC setup and software/OS choices would be:

- The endpoint would have to provide the DAC with an as "clean" as possible signal/data. To my opinion easiest to achieve this is to minimize activities on the endpoint, so minimal a dual PC setup. During my experiments with Windows and Linux I got a preference for Windows due to the fuller sound, more body. Minimizing Windows on the endpoint would be easiest to start off with Windows Server (at least with my limited knowledge on Windows).

- For the PC doing the upsampling to go with an as pure a version of HQPlayer and to let HQPlayer to get the most out of the hardware performance wise (not to interfere with HQPlayer with other software). Therefore with a 3 PC setup I would select for this PC HQPlayer OS/Embedded.

- For the Streamer/Server for me to have some flexibility with programs, file transferal with other (Windows) PC's, possibly ripping CD's with dBpoweramp. I would select a Windows OS, most likely Windows 10.

[Rovo]

Forgot one more reason to select Windows for the endpoint: I want to stream DSD512 to the T+A DAC 8 DSD. This is only possible with Windows, unless you flash the chip in the DAC.

[Rovo]

Requiring some assistance.

 

I am trying to install networkaudiod.exe (411) on a Windows Server 2012 R2 PC.

 

I have installed vc_redist.x64.exe (following the link on the Signalist web page) followed by Update for Windows Server 2012 R2 (KB2999226). When trying to install networkaudiod.exe again I got the message that qwave.dll was missing. Downloaded and installed qwave.dll in the directories "C:\Windows\SysWOW64\" and "C:\Windows\System32\". This functioned, but I got a next .dll missing: api-ms-win-core-libraryloader-l1-2-2.dll. Did the same as for qwave.dll. This functioned also, but got a next .dll missing: api-ms-win-core-synch-l1-2-1.dll.

 

Perhaps one by one copying the missing .dll's is the way to go. But I would like to ask you if this is the best way forward or is there a point I am missing.

 

The reason to use HQPlayer NAA on a (existing endpoint) Windows PC is the attached DAC. This is a T+A DAC 8 DSD requiring a Windows driver for DSD512.

 

Help is appreciated.

 

[Rovo]

This is the link you are referring to:

 

 

I have downloaded and executed vc_redist.x64.exe. Apperently this was not enough or correct. Could you fill me in on the steps I need to take from this page above.

 

[Rovo]

see the thread "Best CPU for HQPlayer". For example on page 58 of this thread people have posted some lists. This will give you an idea of the CPU/GPU demands of the filters. 

[Rovo]

With me (in my setup: Roon Server PC - HQPlayer upsampling PC - HQPlayer NAA PC) the low latency kernel on my HQPlayer upsampling PC had a positive effect on the sound quality ("blacker background"). Don't ask me why, it just did. 

[Rovo]

23 hours ago, Miska said:

 

No, luckily it is not necessary and there's no point in doing that. 😅 I could have prohibited non-integer ratios altogether, but 48k to 44.1k xN ratio is still usable and it is the more typical case anyway. poly-sinc-long just completes the group of poly-sinc and poly-sinc-short filters. To help with these long initialization times, HQPlayer nowadays has the initialization cache.

 

Filters such as poly-sinc-ext3, poly-sinc-gauss-long and poly-sinc-gauss-xl(a) are much faster to initialize.

@Miskawhere to set the initialization cache in HQPlayer Embedded?

[Rovo]

no significant difference, a small step up, but all the small steps add up to a significant difference

[Rovo]

12 hours ago, Miska said:

 

In my livingroom setup, the i5-7600T is passive cooled in a Streacom case with their passive cooled ZF240 PSU, feeding two DACs. Both through Intona 7054 USB isolator. It is both HQPlayer Embedded server and a NAA at the same time. It is server for one of the DACs and NAA for the other one, where server is the i5-11600 located at other end of the house in a small office room. All these are headless, no graphics. Managed over network.

 

I've never noticed any difference in terms of sound whether something is passive or active cooled. Some other hardware aspect yes, but not the cooling solution.

 

Except of course if the fans get acoustically loud, but that's why I rather locate potentially loud servers away from the listening space. The i9-10900K is practically silent, the ASUS Strix-series GPU will stop the fans on lower loads and then gradually speed those up as necessary, in most cases those are very quiet. Same for the Seasonic Prime TX-1000 hybrid PSU. (Big Noctua CPU cooler and Fractal Design Define R6 case with sound proofing). This was also the last machine with Gigabyte's special DAC-UP2 USB ports.

 

When I changed the power supply from a good computer power supply (Corsair RM850) to a HDPlex 500W LPSU it was a big step up in sound quality. Changing from the HDPlex 500W LPSU to a Nenon v3 ULPS + Taiko DC-ATX was again a big step up. After this I changed the power connection for the fans from the motherboard to a separate power supply and this also resulted in a better sound quality. 

 

My experience thus far is that the power supplies need to be of a very high ("audiophile") quality before you will notice the effects of active versus passive cooling. 

[Rovo]

15 hours ago, Miska said:

 

What is your DAC and how is it connected? Do you use a NAA?

 

I have one Corsair PSU, but I didn't like it. I've been sticking to Seasonic, both fanless and hybrid (fan stopped up to 50% load). They have long 12 years warranty and high MTBF which matter to me when the machines run 24/7/365.

 

That kind of HDPlex PSU wouldn't be enough for my bigger servers. They need 850W - 1 kW PSU. But now for RTX4090 GPU I would go with their biggest 1.6kW PSU.

 

 

In DAC output measurements?

 

If you are using a NAA for output and streaming Qobuz/HRA/Tidal, then HQPlayer computer matters in this respect matters just as much as the servers at CDN datacenters these streaming services are using. (Akamai, etc)

 

 

My experiences are with my setup and the hardware of this setup is as follows: 

- modem - SoTM sps500

- router - SoTM sps500

- Netgear GS308 - Plixir BDC

       - Roon Server PC - Nenon v3 ULPS + HDPlex 800 DC-ATX

       - HQPlayer Upsampling PC - Nenon v3 ULPS + Taiko DC-ATX

- Sonore Optical Module deLuxe - Plixir BDC

- optical cable

- Uptone EtherRegen - Plixir BDC

       - HQPlayer NAA endpoint - Nenon v3 ULPS + Taiko DC-ATX

       - T+A DAC 8 DSD

 

With the setup above I did experience the sound quality improvements with each power supply upgrade. Why, please do not ask me, but the sound quality improvements are there. I also started out skeptical towards these power supply upgrades. I started out upgrading the power supply closest to the DAC and continued upstream. And each time it turned out an improvement. See also my post of November 11th in Music Servers/Building a DIY Music Server for more details. 

 

The HDPlex 500W PSU is definitely not suitable for a bigger server. See my post of November 11th mentioned above. I used an "upgraded" version of the Nenon v3 ULPS to power my HQPlayer upsampling PC. I carefully selected my components for this PC to keep the power consumption relatively low. For the CPU I used an Intel i9-10900K and for the GPU a NVidia RTX A4000 16GB. The required power from the wall socket is approximately 200W for this PC. I am able to upsample 44.1 source content to DSD512 and 48 to DSD256, with sinc-L and AMSDMEC7 512+fs. 

[Rovo]

4 hours ago, pis99 said:

I am a crazy passive cooling nut as well as big fan of LPS until I started serious with Hqplayer two years ago. So crazy to what extend? I will show you one of my work done about 4 years ago as attached image. That was done through my tooling center at cost no objective intend. I do not regret sopending such money on something I no longer pursue today. But the differece between none-EC modulator to EC modulator is apparently much greater than active V.S. passing cooling to my experience. 

 

 

Very nice work

 

Everything matters, it is only a question of how deep your pockets are 😀 

 

[Rovo]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

What kind of NAA hardware is this? You could try putting Intona USB isolator between the NAA and DAC. If it's a regular PC motherboard, it will have a bunch of switching regulators / DC-DC converters anyway. So you kind of have LPS feeding SMPS.

 

If you use the low noise Intona USB3 version, do not use any aux power, it is not needed and may insert unexpected noise path. 7054 should be already fine.

 

P.S. Also good to check that you are not using 100 Mbps side of the EtherRegen.

 

 

The NAA endpoint is equipped with a JCAT USB XE card with an external power supply Plixir BDC. The T+A DAC 8 DSD does not need a 5V power line from the endpoint. A jumper is removed from the JCAT USB XE card to cut off this 5V to the DAC. This resulted in a step up in sound quality . The motherboard is a Supermicro X11SCL-F with the graphics turned off (jumper), also a step up in sound quality. 

 

I only use the A-side of the EtherRegen. 

[Rovo]

14 hours ago, T1000 said:

Hello!

I am quite disappointed.

I update my pc i5-9600k, rtx2060, 16gb ddr4 3200

to a new i7-13700k, rtx3060ti, 32gb ddr5 5600

and not obtain nothing best result than before.

Multicore DSP- Checked (aprox 50-60%)

CUDA offload - Checked (aprox 20-30%)

Basically same limits with no drops in both pc`s.

44.1kx256 with EC Modulators, xtr mp/lp or gauss-long...

44.1kx512 with no EC Modulators.

I use windows 10.

Any idea, config or update?

Regards and thanks.

is the RTX3060TI with 8GB not the limiting factor for upsampling to DSD512? Miska/Jussi adviced me to use minimum 16GB for the GPU, that is for upsampling with sinc-L. And I use Linux (Ubuntu Server 20.04). Perhaps some points to check. These and the advice of Miska/Jussi to use optimized defaults in the BIOS. 

[Rovo]

35 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

Does anyone else have the problem with the USB license dongle in HQPlayer 5 Embedded?

 

Every time I try to add the new key (for version 5 of course), the web configuration is not accessible afterwards. Not even after a restart. On the screen everything looks normal. 

 

The USB dongle is recognized by the HQPlayer OS. I changed the slot and the new slot was recognized. 

@StreamFidelity

am I correct that changing the USB port for the dongle solved the problem for you? For me changing the USB port did not solve the problem I had. If you look at an earlier post of mine, you can see some commands to clearify if the USB dongle is recognized by the OS (perhaps you already used them). 

 

Jussi tried yesterday (with me typing in commands) to clear the problem with my USB dongle. Unfortunately with no result. I am now waiting for Jussi's reply on my proposal to send back the USB dongle for further investigation. 

[Rovo]

2 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

No the problem is still there. I just wanted to say that it is not a hardware error, because the USB dongle is recognized by the system.

 

Probably my problem has to do with the different keys. There is the original fingerprint for HQPlayer Embedded, which refers to the hardware installed in the PC. For this you get an xml when you buy it.

 

The USB license dongle replaces the PC hardware and generates a new fingerprint. For this fingerprint there is a new xml from Jussi.

 

When I ordered HQPlayer 5, the webshop did not accept the USB dongle xml. But the original embedded xml was accepted for the discount.

 

In the order process I of course deposited the fingerprint from the USB dongle, showed on Web-Config. I got a new HQPlayer 5 Embedded xml. May this triggered the program crash, because the system probably expected a matching xml to the PC hardware, not to the USB dongle.

 

I have emailed @Miska and am now also waiting for a solution. 

Just to be clear if I understood you correctly, when you have the USB dongle installed in the web page (about) you can see the fingerprint of the USB dongle?

[Rovo]

35 minutes ago, Luca72c said:

 

Very strange, as i have both W11 HQP desktop and HQ OS Embedded on my server and i find a difference in sound too, but not so obvious: to my ears (and my audiophile friends' too) HQP OS sounds a little bit clearer too, but thinner, while W11 sound is more full bodied and consistent. As i said, on different servers and setups by my friends the same difference remains and the same on another W10 server i have - but the difference between W10 and HQP OS is greater than W11 vs HQP OS, both in better and in worse traits. So the difference is not growing, but diminishing over time in my tests. All servers i tested, including my friends', use NAA instead of direct USB connection, so of course DAC handling and final play is performed by NAA Linux OS in both cases.

So i wonder what could cause this, maybe differences in how different OSes deal with different hardwares? Differences between different NAAs? Or maybe W10/11 OS configuration/optimization (i find on W10/11 the OS configuration/maintenance is critical for sound quality)?  I don't know and i'm not able to test any deeper than this, but surely i would say that HQP OS version IS NOT clearly better sounding than W10/11 version, just a bit different (expecially vs W10 one). For sure, specifically HQP OS version sound IS NOT more full bodied and consistent than W10/11, but the opposite, a little bit more open, clear and thin (all very little, to be honest)...

Yet to test HQP5 about that, i'll report as soon as i find the time to check.

N.B.: what do you mean by "good-worked-out setup" for HQP OS? I just boot from the USB stick and play, can you suggest further setup optimization?

 

All the software and hardware do have an interaction. Depending on the hardware you have (not only the PC hardware, but also your amplifier, etc.), you will experience/hear a different representation of the music. Depending on this representation the software changes can have a different effect. This makes our hobby so difficult, it is comparing apples with pears. 

[Rovo]

2 hours ago, dericchan1 said:

trial version in our bedroom

🤔

[Rovo]

28 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

HQPlayer 4 series enters two year maintenance mode period.

Most likely no new features, but only bug fixes (like musicjunkie917 allready mentioned)

[Rovo]

1 hour ago, Bertel said:

 

HQP Embedded has its own OS. The process is pretty straightforward: you locate the appropriate version for your hardware on signalyst.com in the Custom section (direct link is this: https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/hqplayerd/images/ ), burn it to an USB stick e.g. with BalenaEtcher, set your computer's BIOS to boot from this USB stick (or select accordingly in the boot menu), and it will start up. You control the application either with the client software you already use (e.g. HQPControl or HQPlayer Client) or go directly to its own web GUI (typically available at http://hqplayer.local:8088/). You'll connect to your NAA endpoint and configure everything just as you do with your HQPlayer Desktop version. There's plenty further advice also here in the HQPlayer Linux Desktop and HQplayer embedded thread.

HQPlayer Embedded can be installed "as its own OS" (HQPLayer OS) or based on e.g. Ubuntu Server. Based on Ubuntu Server you have the possibility for GPU offload. Go to signalyst.com - Custum - download and installation instructions were you see these two methods described. 

[Rovo]

59 minutes ago, cpcat said:

I get an audible pop at track-beginning when transitioning from one source file resolution to another.

 

I convert everything from pcm to DSD512 with auto rate family and 48k DSD enabled.

 

Anyone else have this?

Any way to mitigate?

yes, I do the same and get the same audible pop. I just think of it as if "the needle hits the groove". It is audible, but not loud or annoying. 

[Rovo]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

This happens when DAC is not muting the output properly at those state transitions. Which DAC is this? I have not experienced such for example with Holo or T+A.

 

T+A DAC 8 DSD

[Rovo]

On 6/10/2023 at 2:38 PM, Miska said:

 

I think it worked fine for me with ASIO driver and the original firmware. Is that what you are using?

 

 

IIRC, JLSounds has mute pin which should control output mute relays/transistors. But I don't know how the Lampi is implemented.

 

Up till some days ago I have been using a Windows based NAA and with this I experienced the audible pop. Since a couple of days I use a NAA image (Linux based) and now I do not hear the audible pop anymore.