HQ Player

[DancingSea]

Is there a more detailed description than the HQP manual regarding what HQP filters do?  Specifically the DSD settings, the various version of poly-sinc, the modulators, etc.

 

Thanks.

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

What kind of explanation are you after? If you have some specific question in mind, I can try to answer it.

 

Moi Miska,

 

My primary interest is for the SDM (DSD) settings, and even for the PCM settings, it would be helpful to have a chart, like you have, but with less technical explanations - and instead explanations that explain the sound.  When I read the explanations in the manual, I usually am more confused than I was before

 

For instance, if you read a review in Stereophile or TAS, they use an extensive sonic vocabulary that is relatively non-technical.  It would be helpful to read an entire list of all the HQP options written in that vein.  Yes, I can adjust the settings and listen for myself, but I like having guidance of what to listen for.....

[DancingSea]

9 minutes ago, jimdukey said:

, I abandoned SDM and use PCM mode

 

That's the opposite of what Jussi recommended, that is upsample all files ( PCM/DSD) to high rate DSD and skip PCM altogether.

I upsample everything to DSD 128 and can't imagine Not doing that! I'm interested in getting DSD 256 on my IMac, but don't want to buy (yet) another Dac.

I don't like the High Output Level of the Myteks, and the new IFI DSD Dac seems to want to do all the Processing itself,

don't know how it might work with HQ/Mac.

Not ready to open expensive cans of worms!

DSD 128 on HQ is the best sound I've heard.

Especially with Mac D 150.

 

PCM upsampled sounds a bit more lively than it upsampled to DSD.  I personally prefer the more smooth sound of PCM upsampled to DSD.  I let HQP upsample to DSD 128, and then my DirectStream Junior DAC upsamples that to DSD 1280....

[DancingSea]

3 hours ago, jimdukey said:

When does one move from Newbie to Sophomore?

I have more posts than some Sophomores!

And most of mine  are Very Sophomoric...

I think I'm Ready.

 

You can change it yourself in your profile to anything you like. Can be Jedi Master level if you want ?

[DancingSea]

4 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Then you should run those in HQPlayer instead so that Roon becomes bit-perfect...

 

It would be helpful if the HQP interface was more user friendly.  I utilize Roon's headroom management because its so easy to implement.

 

HQP sounds great, but the interface is antiquated at this point....

[DancingSea]

16 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I just feel that Roon has copied that from HQPlayer... If you set HQPlayer volume control to the same setting as Roon's "headroom management" you gain the same result. Alternatively you can set maximum volume in HQPlayer to same value as you have in Roon as "headroom management". So it is even easier to implement, without going through multiple layers of menus (max two clicks get you everywhere). In addition to that, HQPlayer also provides gain compensation for convolution that gets also switched in/out at the same time you switch in/out the convolution filter on the fly making it easier to compare the effect - straight from the main window.

 

However, HQPlayer never clips, because there's always built-in soft limiter. Limiter getting activated is indicated in two ways 1) "Limited" counter incrementing and 2) volume knob turning red.

 

HQPlayer's desktop interface is designed to be lightweight to render, with minimal eyecandy to keep GPU loads low, for example when you are utilizing GPU for DSP. The alternative full-screen/touch interface is more heavy to render while still being light, but flicks and other transitions can tax the GPU (or swiping the cover flow to high scrolling speed).

 

P.S. The HQPlayer's interface is much less antiquated than what for example macOS has for everything...

 

 

I see, thanks.   I use HQP with Roon and the HQP volume knob is always red.  Are you suggesting that I can ignore the Roon clipping indicator since HQP will automatically take care of any clipping?  With Roon, if I see the indicator turn red, I manually adjust the headroom in the DSP engine.  I know, you recommend turning the Roon DSP engine off, but I'm hooked on its EQ as well, please forgive

 

By antiquated, I'm referring to HQP's old school interface.  Nearly all of the other players have moved forward to a more up to date, non Finder like interface.  As a less technical type of user, I prefer the Roon like interface.  I could care less about Roon's meta data magazine features, and even less about its price.  But I like its easy access to DSP functions, and for how it presents my library mixed with Tidal.

 

I continue to hope one of the other players (A+, Amarra, etc), including my current favorite, HQP, can give us Roon's user friendliness and functionality without the silly subscription model... I pay for Roon because I feel like I have to, not because I feel good about the deal they provide...

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

Then you have sort of a mess and need to do both, headroom management at Roon side and possibly at HQPlayer side too. Roon's indicator likely doesn't tell anything what is going on at HQPlayer side (it could though).

 

I just see it more complex if you need to go to Roon's DSP settings to make the adjustment if you see the indicator going red. With HQPlayer you just turn down the volume knob if you see it going red, no need to hassle into any menus.

 

 

Let's not mix looks with functionality. HQPlayer's "old school interface" is themeable and indeed looks different on different platforms, trying to look "native" on each platform. But the looks don't have anything to do with functionality.

 

And of course, for dealing with library, HQPlayer has the two different interfaces, plus third-party ones like HQPDcontrol, muso and Alchemy in addition to Roon and HQPlayer's own two interfaces.

 

Yes, HQP is very functional.  But to the unwashed masses, the interface could use refinement, and with that, more market share for you.  But you're probably all set in your Lapland mansion and don't need to sell yet more of HQP

 

Per your suggestion, I have the HQP volume set at -3 and 0.  With or without Roon, and even with no music playing, the HQP volume knob is always red and there's no way to adjust it.  To shift my headroom adjusting from Roon to HQP, do I need to set a wider volume range in the HQP preferences?

 

And is it possible to adjust the HQP headroom in real time with Roon, or do I have to stop the music first?

[DancingSea]

2 hours ago, jimdukey said:

I think it's -3 and -3, not 0.

 

Is -3 and -3 the correct setting for using the DAC's volume control?

 

I thought for sure it was -3 and 0.  But I could be mistaken.

[DancingSea]

9 hours ago, firedog said:

Well if you have Roon and want to use HQP, Roon takes care of almost all the UI issues you might have.

 

I think most users have one or two settings in HQP they prefer and they use them. If you aren't constantly switching the settings, HQP can basically be left running and ignored. Then you just use Roon for the UI. And changing a filter or modulator in HQP isn't really that big a deal. 

 

I can understand the complaints about the UI if iHQP is your main interface, but not when you also have Roon.

 

I want to escape Roon and only use Roon because of the HQP GUI.....

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, mtcs said:

It seems to me that there are plenty of good options for GUI. Personally, I'm very happy using the Roon/HPQe solution. I hope Miska continues to focus on improving SQ.

 

1 hour ago, firedog said:

Okay,so have you tried one of the external GUI’s written for HQP?

 

For the most part, I like Roon quite a bit.  I wish in playlists, they would allow album and artist views, instead of only track views. 

 

The price is extreme. I’d gladly buy Roon for a normal price, like $100, and give up the meta data subscription. 

 

I have not tried, or ever heard of, the HQPlayer skins.  I like having an easy to use equalizer, something Amarra, JRiver and Audirvana all allow for.  I find the convolution engine to be unnecessarily, well, convoluted. 

 

Do the hqp skins provide a dsp eq?

[DancingSea]

8 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Ahh, no Lapland for me, I rather go somewhere south...

Since my time is limited, it is more question how much time I should put in creating eye candy vs how much time I should put in sound quality. And should I potentially trade sound quality for eye candy (more CPU/GPU intensive GUI).

 

Certainly at some point I will reimplement the HQPlayer Desktop GUI, but now it has been more or less that way for almost 10 years.

 

The alternate option is now HQPlayer Embedded, without any other GUI except simple web interface to set configuration parameters. So sort of opposite direction. If you use Roon or a mobile app for control, or use UPnP, you don't need more.

 

 

You mean min=-3 max=0? If you have disabled "DirectSDM" or you output PCM you can then adjust volume. If you output SDM and you have "DirectSDM" enabled, then there's fixed headroom setting of about -3 dB in use and you cannot adjust it from the volume knob.

 

 

Yes, at least when you have Roon's DSP disabled, the volume control in Roon adjusts HQPlayer's volume.

 

 

Thanks Miska. To clarify, when using the DAC volume, what is your recommended HQPlayer volume setting?

[DancingSea]

40 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Low enough that "Limited" counter stays zero. -3 dBFS is a good starting point, but in the end it depends on your filter selection and source material. I have content where -3 dBFS is not enough, but that is quite rare in the end.

 

 

Themes/skins/styles provide look-and-feel, but they cannot change the functionality, only how things are presented / look like.

 

 

Thus is -3 minimum and 0 max the recommended setting, with the understanding there may be exceptions?

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

You may then like the 3.22 release I just made that has precisely all this! It has clickable "flick-zones" on screen edges you can use to quickly switch between the views. I also gave a bit of facelift for the overall look-and-feel.

 

 

 

Moi,

 

How are we notified of HQP updates?  I've owned since January and have not been prompted to update....

[DancingSea]

I'm having some odd behavior.  On the PCM side, if the filter is set to FIR, or Minring FIR (and mp), HQP is not upsampling to 352K, its just passing through the original sample rate.  On poly sinc it is upsampling like normal...  its weird because the FIR filters have always behaved normally to this point.  Ideas?

[DancingSea]

13 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Strange indeed, I just re-tested on all three platforms, on Linux with Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, on Windows with T+A DAC8 DSD and on macOS with iFi iDAC2 and for me it is working correctly.

 

Can you email me a HQPlayer log of this happening?

 

 

It all started when I adjusted the HQP volume from -3 min, 0 max to -6 minimum.  It actually seems to not matter which PCM filter I choose.  And when it does this odd behavior, it throws off the DSD side as well, no DSD sound comes out.  I found that if I kept changing PCM filters, eventually one would go back to 352, and then all the others did as well.  Nothing like this has ever happened before....

 

How do I get the log and to where do I email it?

[DancingSea]

I currently use MacBook Pro --> Roon --> HQP --> USB --> RUR and Curious cable --> to DirectStream Junior DAC.

 

There is much talk on the PS Audio forums, including recommendations from their designer Ted Smith, that Toslink will sound better than USB.

 

Is there any reason why Toslink won't work with HQP?

 

Thanks. 

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

Toslink works with HQP from mac mini to iFi iDSD micro, PCM only. Check if your MacBook has optical out.

 

Thanks.  Yes, my MacBook has optical out via the headphone jack.  I wonder if the your lack of DSD via optical is Mac or iFi iDSD related?  Ted Smith says the DirectStream Junior can play single rate DSD (64), and PCM to 192 over optical if the cable is capable.

[DancingSea]

28 minutes ago, Sevenfeet said:

 

There are potentially jitter issues with Toslink/Coax that is inherit in the technology (invented in the Stone Age of digital communications) versus USB, which was brought to us in the Bronze Age.  

 

I'd stick with USB if I had a choice.

 

Yes, conventional wisdom thinks poorly of toslink.  However, on the PS Audio forums there's a thread where a DirectStream owner said a Toslink connection sounded so good he ditched all of his Uptone Regen rig.  Ted Smith, the designer of the DirectStream, also said that specific to its design, Toslink sounds better than USB.  They say Toslink has very low jitter.  The downside is lower bandwidth than USB, so optical can't go higher than 192 or DSD 64....

[DancingSea]

8 hours ago, astrostar59 said:

HQ Player inside Roon even if no upsampling?

This might be a dumb question, but I keep reading HQ Player is better sounding than Roon. I used to use Audirvana+ 3 but the more recent build of Roon has finally beaten that on sound. I don't upsample as have an R-2R DAC which is also filterless.

 

Can anyone advise if HQ Player is still better than Roon player (inside Roon) and avoiding the usual 'up sampling is better' subject. Too big a subject / another subject . Thanks

 

There are no absolute answers, its all subjective.  I can say that for me, there's no question that Roon w/ HQP sounds better than Roon by itself.  And for me, both sound better than A+.

 

Regarding setting up HQP, it looks more complex than it is.  The main issue with HQP is not so much the setup, but its regular use.  The GUI is antiquated.  That's a primary reason why so many use Roon as the front end for HQP....

[DancingSea]

At least in my system, with my DirectStream Junior which itself upsamples everything to DSD 1280 (20 times single rate DSD) - I've found HQP sounds best leaving PCM as PCM instead of upsampling it to DSD.  I upsample PCM to 352 and send it to the DirectStream for DSD upsampling.  After a long time of upsampling all PCM to DSD in HQP,  I've found the sonic benefits of keeping PCM as PCM, at least in my system, to be great and obvious.

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

HQPlayer looks at what kind of CPU you have and allocates the work accordingly if you select the "Auto" (grayed) for "Multicore DSP". When in "Enabled" (checked) setting, it just bangs full-on on all CPU cores there are (HyperThreading virtual siblings are ignored).

 

HQPlayer can utilize all cores you have, but the more important tradeoff is clock frequency vs number of cores. So try to look for a CPU that has as high as possible base-clock while having as many as possible cores. So preferably base clock between >= 3.2 GHz and as many cores as you can get. If you can have recent Nvidia GPU for CUDA, then you can reduce CPU core count and only look for maximum base-clock frequency which you get at the moment around 6-core CPUs.

 

There are some tasks that cannot be spread to multiple cores, so if you go all-in on core-count, you begin to suffer on base clock frequency and thus those jobs that cannot split between cores are becoming bottleneck. However, TurboBoost 3 (etc) muddy the waters a bit because they can still boost some of the cores at higher clocks a bit (if others are waiting).

 

Miska,

 

I use HPQ with Roon on a Macbook.  For some unknown reason, and I haven't changed any settings, HQP will no longer output DSD.  It will output PCM like normal.  I've reset my DAC (a Direct Stream Junior), restarted the Mac, etc.    It shows a DSD song playing in Roon, just no sound goes to the DAC.  I tried playing a DSD file in HQP itself, it also shows it playing, but no sound.  My settings are attached below.  Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 

 

[DancingSea]

34 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

Miska,

 

I use HPQ with Roon on a Macbook.  For some unknown reason, and I haven't changed any settings, HQP will no longer output DSD.  It will output PCM like normal.  I've reset my DAC (a Direct Stream Junior), restarted the Mac, etc.    It shows a DSD song playing in Roon, just no sound goes to the DAC.  I tried playing a DSD file in HQP itself, it also shows it playing, but no sound.  My settings are attached below.  Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

It started working after an hour of fiddling around.  Not sure why....

[DancingSea]

I continue to have issues with HQP refusing to play on my MacBook Pro (connected to Direct Stream Junior via USB).  Via Roon.  If I use any other zone on Roon, forget it, HQP conks out, can take an hour or more to get it to play again.  But even if I stick with the HQP zone, HQP will refuse to play at times.  Or it will play but no sound comes out, can see the track progressing, but zero sound.

 

Over the past week, I’ve twice spent nearly 2 hours trying to HQP to resume normal function, doing every trick I know.  Restarting the DSJunior, unplugging the and plugging in the USB cable, restarting the Mac, and in a myriad of different orders.

 

I have Audio Midi set per Miska’s recommendations.  Not sure why this is happening as HQP has performed well for over a year.  And nothing has changed in my system....

[DancingSea]

28 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Have you checked that you don't have the DAC enabled as a zone in Roon? Otherwise the two applications will have a competition about the device...

 

 

Yes, in Roon I have the following 3 zones:

DAC enabled as USB connection. 

DAC enabled over the DSJunior’s network Bridge II

And HQP enabled.

 

Ought I disable everything except for the HQP zone?

 

Thanks. 

[DancingSea]

Miska,

 

I disabled the Roon USB and the Network zones.  Only the HQP zone is enabled.

 

Its still behaving very oddly.  Currently, it will only play PCM.  DSD files show they are playing, but no sound comes through the DAC.  PCM files (not upsampled to DSD) play fine, though I’m not sure how long that will last.  In the past week, it will start to play certain things and then stop.  For instance, for one evening, HQP (via Roon) would only play Tidal tracks, but nothing local.

 

DSD 64 and 128, including upsampling PCM to both, have always played fine for a year.  Just weird the last week.

 

It should be noted that with Roon on its own, both via USB and the DSJ’s internal network Bridge, everything performs normally.  Just doesn’t sounds as good as HQP!!

Any ideas?