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Hi all. Just curious if anyone has run into anything similar. I am listening to a new-to-me Ares II DAC and am really enjoying it. It sounds phenomenal in DSD256, poly-sinc-xtr-2s. The issue is I'm hearing minor "ticks and pops" during playback. I'm running Roon to a Pi3 endpoint that also has a Pi2AES hat on it, but since I'm using USB - I don't think that hat is really factoring in here.

 

As someone who also listens to a lot of vinyl - trust me I can appreciate the random tick or pop here and there. But it's a bit unexpected via digital. In any case, I've tried a couple of USB cables and have the same result. None of my USB cables are high-grade. 


For now I'm just using the Coax output and it sounds glorious but limits me to DSD64/PCM 192.


Am I on the right track that it's likely the Pi3 USB out causing the issue? I was using it for a couple of nights into my other DAC, a Benchmark DAC3L and never noticed anything like that but I am also limited to 192/DSD64, totally, on that DAC. So my thought is that maybe doing DSD256 and DSD512 is proving to be too much for the Pi3 to handle via USB without minor issues cropping up. Or, perhaps the USB input on the DAC3L is a little better than on Ares II? 

 

Anyway, just curious if anyone has any thoughts on how to troubleshoot this. I've reached out to Alvin of course but since I bought it secondhand, I fully expect to need to do some of this legwork on my own to track it down.

 

PS - I need to update my signature. That stuff is like 5 years old and I don't have any of it nowadays. So, uh, disregard that blob of text down there.

 

Edit 2 - So, using USB if I stick with DSD128 or DSD64 and use 44.1 as the bitrate, and use a light modulator like ASDM5 or ASDM7, it plays pretty much flawlessly. At least I haven't heard any issues. But as soon as I use the same modulators and try 256/44.1, or try to use something like ASDM5EC, I start getting these little ticks intermittently. Not sure if that helps any. I doubt it's my PC but in case it's the PC that can't keep up, I should be getting a Ryzen 3700X tomorrow that I hope to put together over the weekend and on my week off next week. My current machine is about 5 years old, but it's at least an i7 6700K, 32G RAM, 2070 Super GPU and I'm using CUDA Offload. So no slouch, but it's seen better days, for sure.

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You're probably right. I should at least know the answer to that in a few days. I can say that as good as this sounds, I'm determined to find a fix. So if the PC upgrades and fresh OS install don't do the trick, I think next I'll try an RPi 4, for its separate USB/Network unlike the Pi3 which, I think, I'm asking a LOT of right now to output DSD256 or 512. Maybe not, but it seems reasonable that could be a bottleneck as well.


If I'm being honest, just sitting here listening to Shostakovich in DSD128 with fairly benign HPQ settings sounds fabulous.

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Thank you to everyone who chimed in on my pops/ticks issue last night with USB. Anticipating my Pi3 was a likely cause, I ordered a Pi4 to test out. Should be here tomorrow and I'll report back!

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Hoping my Pi4 shows up today from Amazon. 

 

Beyond that, I built my new Ryzen 7 machine last night. 3700X CPU, 32G DDR4 PC3600 RAM. I thought it was fast *before* I discovered the RAM wasn't running at full speed and needed a BIOS update. And for whatever reason, "CUDA Offload" checked, not just grayed, slows it down now. If I just leave that grayed and let the CPU handle the work, I can do DSD256 ASDM7EC with about a 1-2 second lag before music starts playing. I don't recall the CPU load but it's very reasonable once playback starts, to my recollection. Now, it still had the dropouts but I blame that on the Pi3 that will hopefully be fixed today.

 

But my previous machine, an i7 6700k, wouldn't even start playing something on ASDM7EC though that may have been the same CUDA Offload thing (which I gather is likely user error - I'm new to this). Filter in use is poly-sinc-xtr2-2s.

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1 minute ago, Miska said:

 

What kind of Nvidia GPU do you have? If the GPU is slower than the CPU, then offload just makes things worse as CPU ends up waiting for GPU to complete it's tasks.

 

 

It's a GTX2070 Super. Shouldn't be slow, but maybe compared to the Ryzen?

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12 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

No, that should be pretty fine. What kind of filters are you running on it?

 

Going from memory but I believe it's poly-sinc-xtr2-2s, ASDM7EC modulator and at the time, I was only trying DSD64 48k for the rate. I bumped it up after I determined it's faster to gray that out instead of check it, but that's my recollection. I can certainly do more testing on it, however I can help. And I'm not at all concerned about it, was just an observation.

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15 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

That should certainly work on that GPU without issues. Unless there is some other problem somewhere. Please check you have latest Nvidia drivers installed. If there is some other application loading the GPU a lot, then it could also affect HQPlayer operation. But this should be rare case (playing a heavy game while HQPlayer playing, etc)

 

 

I'll take a look. This was a totally fresh O/S install and I am almost positive I was doing this after the GPU driver install, but I don't mind playing :) Heck, I'm just impressed with how well Ryzen is doing on stuff that my old CPU was not handling well at all, and not just where HQP is concerned. It's just a much better experience now overall.

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So I made some progress today. It seems I had Multicore and CUDA offload set poorly? Since setting Multicore to gray and CUDA to checked, now I'm seeing good activity on both GPU and CPU and doing so, I can get ASDM5EC to run at DSD256. ASDM7EC at 128. Currently it seems to run fine at 256/48, but I've got it at 256/44 to give myself a little headroom, and for the fact that most of my collection is in 44/88, so it just seems to make the most sense for starting out.

 

I also learned a lot about exactly how much bandwidth gets taken up by streaming DSD256 to an NAA. I run gigabit in the house, and I have gigabit Fiber from AT&T. So normally, I have plenty of bandwidth. But unbeknownst to me, a cable I put in between my switch and the PC running Roon/HQP was throttling my autonegotiation down to 100/100. So in periods of high download (say, 95 Mb/s because I was grabbing something off my SFTP) or upload activity on the network, it was essentially saturated and that's where I was getting some of the really bad pausing and stuttering from. It wasn't due to HQ Player or settings or anything, it was just a fluke. Now that I have the cable fixed and there's plenty of bandwidth to go around from that PC, it's much better. 

 

And I haven't yet had a chance to sit down and really focus on it, but even playing around with settings at the PC outside my room, but hearing what was going on in the room - the first time I got DSD256 and ASDM5EC, I stopped what I was doing and just listened at the door to my room. It was pretty amazing, so I can't wait to actually focus on it here shortly.

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Is it normal to see only 4-5% usage on the GPU when using CUDA offload (checked, not grayed)? And for some reason, if I check "Multicore DSP," performance gets worse. If I leave it grayed, I can play 128/48 ASDM7EC, for example. But if I check it, that same combination can't go more than a few seconds without pauses. 

 

Just trying to make sure all is right with my setup. I've verified I have plenty of Ethernet bandwidth available on my NAA. Pi4, iperf3 reports 500 Mbit bandwidth between my Roon/HQP PC and the NAA. I also tried USB direct from PC to DAC (Ares II) and it didn't really change much. It's just weird - it seems like there are plenty of resources available, but they're just not being used.

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Edit to that last post - I'm still playing around, but now seeing that depending on the filter used, CUDA usage can get pretty high. So, per usual - PEBKAC. As you were :)

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image.thumb.png.137abea549aca2e86a15a5163d0d76c8.png

 

Hasn't been my night, I'll say that. I keep getting things like the above. It's intermittent - music plays and plays and then out of nowhere, I get a dropout. So far I can see that my CPU usage drops substantially (more apparent when using intense DSD filters) but also, Ethernet out from my Roon/HQP PC drops to nothing during the gap. I've seen this happen on DSD128 > ASDM7 which I know my current PC can handle without much trouble. The above screenshot was at PCM 1.5k. It's usually been after a couple of songs? NAA is a new Pi4 with USB out to an Ares II DAC.

I saw where there were earlier threads, one involving a SOTM NAA where the low MTU of these little devices was considered a liability, that overtime we just end up overflowing a hardware buffer and it eventually causes a loss of packets. Not sure if that's the same thing I'm seeing? Either way, I'm wondering if a comically long USB cable out to my DAC, and just bypass the NAA altogether might be the answer.

Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA

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Looks like I'm out of the edit window on the above post, but since putting a pretty long - 25' maybe? - USB cable between my PC and the Ares II, I've not had one of those odd, intermittent dropouts. Currently checking out DSD1024 with Sinc-S and AMSDM71 512+fs. Sounds really good. I think I like it even better than DSD128/AMSDM7EC. In any case, it *seems* my issue is down to the Pi4 just not liking a steady diet of DSD512 or DSD256 or the highest PCM rates.

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Don't give up on the old 6700k! I had mine just sitting around so I threw something together today (literally) and with a bare bones W10 install, and only HQPlayer running/installed beyond the basic necessary drivers, I can run DSD256/48 on ASDM7EC using poly-sinc-xtr-mp-2s. Multicore is grayed, CUDA is unchecked (no GPU), auto rate family is checked.

 

So now I've at least achieved a PC that runs Roon server and manages the DB, HQP on a separate PC and it's directly connected to my Ares II with a simple, short USB cable. 

 

I plan on making that HQP machine a bit nicer in terms of an LPS and dedicated USB card (or PF i2S since my forthcoming DAC can do i2S) but so far, at least it works. That's literally all I was going for.

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5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Is the Ethernet falling down to 100 Mbps mode instead of 1 Gbps?

 

 

Hi Miska - at one point I was having an issue with this new PC setting Ethernet to 100/100, but that was fixed by replacing a cable I dug out of a junk drawer, with a known good one. I never quite got to the bottom of my Ethernet troubles, but have a better solution in place now, as far as I feel.

 

Thank you for the help!!

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4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

You can do that if you like, depending on what kind of computer you now have. But I don't think there is horribly lot of sense to run a Windows-based NAA for sound quality purposes.

 

 

Greetings Miska! Just want to piggyback on here, given my own little experiments lately around this area. I'm currently using a barebones Win10 PC (i6700k, 16 Gb ram, no GPU, and everything stripped out of the O/S manually, at least that I can comfortably remove or stop from running) to handle the HQP function of upsampling to DSD256 and using ASDM5EC. It sounds very good to my ears. I am directly connecting that machine to my Ares II DAC via USB cable. 

 

If I'm following your statement correctly, you believe I would in all likelihood see an increase, or at least different sound, by not connecting to the DAC with that machine, but instead going through an NAA which connects to the DAC like a Pi4 or Sonore product?

I will try this out now that I have this setup functional. Seems a fun experiment, if nothing else.

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Well I'll be damned... I would say that the whole thing sounds more open and spacious and better articulates details by going back to the Pi4 NAA (using RoPieee image). So now I'm basically fully broken out, I think:
 

One PC runs RoonCore and DB

Separate PC handles all HQP upsampling

Pi4 NAA outputs to DAC via USB.

 

It's not exactly simple, but I think it works pretty darn well.

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2 hours ago, Outlaw said:

Is it my imagination or does HQPlayer on its own sound better then used with Roon.Also don't get pops between songs.

 

I haven't tried that comparison yet, but I've now tried multiple times with multiple DACs (Benchmark DAC3, DF Ares II and Venus II) and different OS's (Win10, UbuntuStudio) and I don't want to believe it, but USB out to my DAC(s) is noticeably better out of a simple Pi4 NAA than it is off the motherboard of the HQPlayer PC (whose only job is to sit there, headless, and crunch HQP filters and modulators). Now I realize USB is not a great transmission protocol for audio in the first place, and getting it off the mobo is not at all ideal, but it's the vast difference I'm hearing in how each presents audio that stuns me.

 

So I don't doubt for a second that HQP direct, rather than through Roon, could have a very positive impact. All of these steps I'm putting in between Roon and my DAC are, hopefully, achieving that same goal, but I'm not sure how your setup operates.

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7 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

Anyone have some things I can try here to fix the fact my Pi4 isn't even appearing as available in HQplayer?

 

 

Screenshot_20201231_222314.png

 

What NAA image are you running?

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Hmmm. I battled that thing over USB not showing up, but I was at least able to flash it and bring up the Pi in the HQP menu, it just lacked a USB output option. I'm still not totally sure what solved that, but it was solved after I swapped both the USB cable between Pi and DAC and the actual Pi4 from an 8Gb model to a 4Gb model.

 

Are you able to see the Pi4 on your network? I would monitor my router's DHCP client table to see when the NAA would show up, and that's when I'd pull open the settings and look for it in HQP. If you can ping it, then I may have to defer to more of an expert in the matter. I do know it takes a little bit to show up on the network after initial boot. Maybe 1-2 minutes, it seemed?

 

 

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I would see ALSA, HDMI, and HDMI1, all referencing "broadcom" in some fashion which is the brand of chips on the Pi4, in my dropdown even when I was having USB issues on it.

 

Question - how are you loading the image? I was not able to do it from a USB adapter for a micro SD card. I either had to use a flash drive or a micro sd card inserted into the sd slot on the unit. Also, what do you see in terms of network activity lights on the Pi? I noticed that when I was not able to see mine in HQP, both my green and amber lights, or just the amber light, were solid on the Pi4. But once it started blinking at me, then I could generally find it. Was just one of those odd little things I noticed while messing around with images.

 

And no, it has no web portal. The only interface it has is accessed via console, so plugging an HDMI cable into a display of some sort. It's a command line only and i'm not even sure if it supports something like ifconfig to check IP and such. 

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10 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Actually... The Pi 4 works perfectly when booting a Ropiee image... SO the problem is squarely on the NAA Image itself.  @Miska You may want to look into this.

 

I was in the same boat, except in my case, I could see the NAA using the 4112 image in HQPlayer dropdown, I just couldn't get sound out of it.

 

Which model do you have, RPi4 8Gb or 4Gb? Reason I ask is Michael from CanaKit told me while I was getting my 8Gb RMA'd that the 8Gb is "different," and some "older software" that works on 4Gb models won't work on 8Gb models. He didn't get more specific than that, but that might be a starting point for @Miska possibly.

 

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On 1/7/2021 at 7:00 PM, Miska said:

 

For CUDA to be useful, the GPU needs to be faster processing filters than the CPU. Otherwise it will just make performance suffer...

 

For something like sinc-L at DSD256 or higher you need a GPU with plenty of RAM.

 

 

Understood. And in this case, the 1030 GPU was just a way to get video out of this build for setup and such. I figured while it was in there I'd see what it could do. And I have my answer (not much) :)

 

So I swapped it up to the upstairs HTPC where it will sit, happily playing 1080p/60 TV shows and it even does 4K movies just fine, and I swapped the 1660 that was in that HTPC down to the HQP PC and now, Sinc-L works just fine at DSD256/48 using a 192/24 PCM source with ASDM7EC as the modulator. 

 

And, to me, it sounds phenomenal. Thank you @Miska!

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am experiencing the issue of playback completely stopping on track switch - so it plays fine, no issues for X tracks, then a new track is to begin and it just never starts playing.

 

Using latest Roon on a core server, HQP Desktop 4.9 on a secondary machine feeding latest HQP NAA Image (Pi4).

 

It was happening on the 4.8 build as well, so not sure if it's different or what, but just putting it out there. It's really only been an "issue" I've noticed while letting some new components play and warm up and such. Otherwise, that's not my typical use case to just let Roon Radio play and play and play.

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1 minute ago, AudioDoctor said:

Maybe I have missed it someplace, but is there a way to be alerted to updates to HQPlayer other than checking the website?

 

I learned about it on Facebook, on the HQP "page." Not everyone does social media though so, not sure about other avenues.

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