HQ Player

[stefano_mbp]

32 minutes ago, Luca72c said:

My current Mini-ITX server is a 22x25x7 cm Intel i5 PC

... interesting  ... even if I don’t understand why an HQPlayer server (hqplayerd) should be moved around ... are you using HQP Desktop or Embedded version?

I’m trying to learn as much as possible and what is still quite obscure to me is why a Nuc10i7 (or Nuc10i5) shouldn’t be used: as I could understand clock frequency is the most important parameter and these cpu are 4.7GHz / 4.2GHz.

In these days I’m trying hqplayerd (Embedded) on a Nuc8i3/Ubuntu I have on hand ... 3.6GHz and I can play up to 4xDSD/ADSM7/poly-sinc-ext2 or closed form using a rpi4 4GB/RoPieee XL as NAA.

It is very close to its limits (70% cpu and 80° temp)  but it works w/o click or pops, therefore I was thinking about a Nuc10i7 or Nuc10i5 with a fanless case like HdPlex H1 V3 w/ Nuc kit, with a good passive cooling and around +15/25% clock performance it should be quite safe.

A new i5-10400 (gen. 10) is around 4.3GHz, quite similar to Nuc10i5 ... is there any other important parameter that escapes me?

Please @Miska help me to better understand ...

 

 

 

[stefano_mbp]

8 minutes ago, Luca72c said:

You have to take into account many factors, including IPC, cache size and management, cores architecture, memory bandwidth, power and heat management (that affects how long a processor can run turbo frequencies), etc...

... this is why every time I try to go deeper in this project I feel lost ... not being a computer engineer you should agree that this is a very complicated task ...

thank you!

[stefano_mbp]

9 minutes ago, Miska said:

Have you tried using ASDM7EC or ASDM5EC modulator?

Yes I tried them but discovered they are very power demanding, just a lot of click, pops and hiccups therefore with those modulators is definitely a no go ... in my setup.

... could you please elaborate “depends also on the configured TDP figure” as I cannot understand (my computer competency is very low ... )

... during my tests I noticed a variable behavior playing gapless tracks, mainly Opera recordings, Carmen, Falstaff ...., I can say that almost 3/4 times on 10 gapless fails ... upsampling wave 16/44.1 to 4xDSD/ASDM7 and ASDM5/poly-sinc-ext2, is this a known issue or could be due to my setup?

To be noted that wave files are served by Minimserver which transcode Alac and flac to wave without modifying bit depth nor sample rate

thank you

 

[stefano_mbp]

10 minutes ago, Miska said:

to play those natively on HQPlayer if possible

... unluckily I have many Alac files ... ( iTunes inheritance ...) that’s why I use Minimserver to transcode to wave ... they aren’t supported by HQPlayer (?)

Thank you

[stefano_mbp]

2 minutes ago, ted_b said:

Convert 'em, with something like db poweramp

.... I could .... they are more or less 8k albums ... my library is quite huge ....

and I doubt, that’s to say I’m sure, that hqplayerd can manage metadata like Minimserver ...

this gapless issue is really a bad surprise, never had any issue using MPD/upmpdcli 

[stefano_mbp]

31 minutes ago, Miska said:

What does this mean?

Means that not using MinimServer I loose it’s intelligent browsing that’s a unique feature

[stefano_mbp]

44 minutes ago, Miska said:

That transcoding is likely not making MinimServer particularly faster when switching tracks...

it could be true but the issue do not exist using mpd/upmpdcli nor using JRiver as a dlna renderer ... in JRiver I can see that there are alway two tracks in the cue and this helps to avoid the issue .... using in both scenarios using Minimserver as upnp server.

If it can help my setup is as follow:

Lumin app as control point, Minimserver as upnp server, hqplayerd as upnp renderer, rpi4/ropiee xl as naa

[stefano_mbp]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

That transcoding is likely not making MinimServer particularly faster

More on my tests, I removed transcoding from Minimserver but the gapless issue is still there with flac files ... this is really a pity as the SQ is really fantastic but MinimServer and gapless are ... indispensable.

[stefano_mbp]

17 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I had some gapless issues with MinimServer as well. Playing for example from Audirvana was working better. Or using Rygel as UPnP server. mConnect Player on iOS is snappier as control point than BubbleUPnP (for some unknown reason).

 

But just use HQPlayer library facilities and it is better. I use UPnP only for playing Tidal.

 

To narrow down the cause of the issue I’ve just tried to play same files transcoded to wave by Minimserver with different resampling rates: 16/44.1 files can be played gapless resampling them in hqplayerd up to 24/176.400, beyond this gapless is broken
I tried using MConnect too but the issue is there anyway

[stefano_mbp]

19 minutes ago, Miska said:

This confirms the lag that MinimServer has when requested for higher bandwidth tracks

I think you have misunderstood: Minimserver delivers to hqplayerd always and only 16/44.1, they are just transcoded to wave without changing bit depth nor sample rate, the issue occurs when I configure hqplayerd to upsample those 14/44.1 beyond 24/176.400

[stefano_mbp]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

Is Minimserver on the same machine? Or are you sending output to a NAA?

 

Minimserver runs on different machine, a MacBook Pro i7/16GB ram late 2011 and music files are on thunderbolt attached hdd.

I’m sending output to NAA, rpi4 4GB running Ropieee XL

[stefano_mbp]

11 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Have you tried same case without a NAA?

 

No. Tomorrow I’ll try and report you back the result

[stefano_mbp]

18 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Have you tried same case without a NAA?

 

The results of some tests:

- not using NAA (ie using ALSA Backend)

— flac 16/44.1 delivered as is by Minimserver (without transcoding to wave)

hqplayerd upsampling to

PCM 88.2 gapless ok

PCM 176.4 gapless fails 1 on 2 attempts

PCM 352.8 gapless fails

DSD x1 gapless ok

DSD x2 gapless ok

DSD x4 gapless ok

— alac 16/44.1 transcoded to wave 16/44.1 by Minimserver 

hqplayerd upsampling to

PCM up to 352.8 gapless ok

DSD up to x4 gapless ok

- using NAA (raspberry pi4 4GB/RoPieee XL)

— Alac/flac 16/44.1 transcoded to wave 16/44.1 by Minimserver 

hqplayerd upsampling to

PCM 176.4 and less gapless ok

PCM 352.8 gapless fails

DSD x1/x2/x4 gapless fails

- hqplayerd settings (with/without NAA)

PCM 1x/Nx poly-sinc-ext2

DSD 1x/Nx poly-sinc-ext2 Modulator ADSM7

 

 

[stefano_mbp]

56 minutes ago, blue2 said:

See above notes from Miska about Pi3 USB/LAN problems which are solved on Pi4

As he uses a Mac mini too it seems the issue is not related to rpi3 but to NAA.

I’m facing some issues too:

using NAA, they are about gapless failure but they occurs with NAA (rpi4/RoPieee XL) and not w/o NAA (except a couple of cases, see my post

Another issue is with another NAA (SoTM sMS 200 Neo): sometimes it works flawlessly but it can happen (most of the times) that clicks, pops and dropouts occur .... randomly, reboot and other attempts are useless , I must give up and try the day after and it works for a while, then the issue occurs again.

@Miska... what do you suggest about this new (for me) issue? ... this trial is really an obstacle course ...

++ edit ++ forgot to mention that in the SoTM case a DoP only dac is connected therefore the NAA output in hqplayerd is configured as DoP.

This could be a hint as connecting a DSD native capable dac to the SoTM do not have clicks, pops and dropouts issues.

 

[stefano_mbp]

On 12/19/2020 at 11:00 PM, il Carletto said:

 

I have 4 different Naa:

 

1) Allo Usbridge. I tried Dietpi, Gentooplayer and now I'm using Ropieee. 

 

2) Beaglebone Black. I tried your image and PureDSD.

 

3) Mac Mini with Networkaudiod

 

4) Rpi 3...

 

Server is running MacOS Catalina, Windows 10, Ubuntu Studio and Embedded via usb, no one is flawless.

Motherboard is Gigabyte Z490 Vision D, two lan ports (Intel I219-v and 215). 

 

As I wrote, it doesn't matter direct connection server-naa or local lan. I still got dropouts.

 

Is there any setting to check?

 

 

Searching for a solution to my SoTM sMS 200 Neo pops and crackles issue I found this thread

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/hqplayer-naa-and-sotm-problem-solved/107999

where the solution suggested is effective, setting the NAA buffer time to 10ms solves the issue.

It could solve your issue too, it's worth a try.

@Miska ... still waiting for some suggestions about gapless issue

... thank you 

 

[stefano_mbp]

21 minutes ago, Miska said:

The same cases that work without NAA using direct connection should also work with NAA.

 

Anyway, best solution is to use HQPlayer's library and forget UPnP.

This is really the worst answer I should ever expected.

so are you claiming this statement is false?

[stefano_mbp]

then I must consider hqplayerd nothing but a real mess, a colander ...

[stefano_mbp]

1 minute ago, Miska said:

 

No, the functionality is there and it works.

 

It doesn’t work as gapless is not functional, be consistent please

[stefano_mbp]

it seems your software works only if  .... it doesn’t rain, there is a full moon ... it is not rock solid at all, too many variables to consider to have it working ... as you thought ... not as it should

... upnp and gapless work flawlessly using Minimserver, MPD/upnp ...

and even JRiver works as a real upnp renderer whithout issues using Minimserver with gapless working as it should

and more ... your approach is always to throw the ball into the opponent's court without considering that the problem may be a defect of your sw .... as it is

[stefano_mbp]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

that has various problems and then insist that it should work without changes

Actually not clear ... gapless issues using NAA and Minimserver (an upnp renderer must work with a upnp server .... afaik, otherwise it wouldn't be an upnp renderer )

you asked to try without NAA and still gapless issues in two cases.

you didn’t suggested any other change except to not use Minimserver.... but minimserver is a must .... then you say that upnp and gapless do not work ... 

to sum up ... you declare a functionality that doesn’t work and when I report issues you declare that the functionality is not reliable at all ... 

this is not a serious attitude on your part

[stefano_mbp]

@ambre even if you disagree the gapless issue is there ... and what's really ridiculous is that @Miska claims that gapless can never be guaranteed (not due to his sw of course) ... that’s totally fool

.... if you can listen to an Opera or just Pink Floyd without gapless ... you are happy

[stefano_mbp]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

HQP OS does not see my external hdd cuz it's formatted NTFS

 

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

my USB tip-of-the-thumb drive was scanned but only the wav files were found.  It left out FLAC and DSF.  ??

this behavior is with Ubuntu /HQPlayerd too... No flac too here ... unbelievable ....

and I can add that neither HFS+ is accepted ....

... and with the unreliable gapless functionality in upnp mode (Minimserver) we cannot actually say that hqplayerd is a “friendly” experience ....

 

[stefano_mbp]

20 minutes ago, stefano_mbp said:

unreliable gapless functionality

... this happens using Euphony too ... and Euphony confirmed (???)

[stefano_mbp]

17 hours ago, Miska said:

All the formats work fine here, but you could enable and check HQPlayer log to see why it is not working.

Here the log after the scan of ext4 formatted hdd.

HQPlayer Embedded 4.21.0 on Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS

As reported there are just flac files on the hdd but they are not viewable in the library

[stefano_mbp]

23 hours ago, stefano_mbp said:

Here the log after the scan of ext4 formatted hdd.

HQPlayer Embedded 4.21.0 on Ubuntu 20.04.1 LTS

As reported there are just flac files on the hdd but they are not viewable in the library

@Miska ....