HQ Player

[lmitche]

Stupid NAA question (i.e realizing OS on NAA is an issues for dac drivers): I do a lot of DAC reviews; I have a dozen DAC drivers show up in my ASIO list on my standalone HQPlayer (WS2012..screen shot is one page back). I now realize (doh!) that I need to load drivers on the NAA. Can I assume that if a ASIO driver is available for WS2012 it will work without risk on Windows 10??

 

I haven't had any problems with the Auralic Vega ASIO, or any other, driver compatibility with Windows 10, but I don't have dozen of DACs.

[lmitche]

Yes, I have a list of steps to optimize Win10. I'm currently on my phone and will post the details in the am.

[lmitche]

As promised.

 

Warning: - Do this only if you are dedicating your machine to playing audio. We are going to be disabling the general purpose functions of Microsoft Windows in an effort to make your machine a dedicated realtime audio player.

 

Tuning the Win10 10041 preview for realtime audio takes time. Here is what I do:

 

- During Windows installation take the custom route and disable all options except for driver downloads.

- Make a restore point immediately after installation.

- Enable Remote Desktop sharing if you need remote access.

- Turn off all firewalls and malware protection from the control panels.

- Download and use the Microsoft autoruns tool to unload all startup programs and unused drivers. There are many. Makes sure you load the NIC driver.

- If you have 2 NICs, setup network bridging across both NICs and set a static IP address. This eliminates the need for a noisy network switch.

- Disable all offload settings on the NICs, except IP and TCP checksum offloads. Set transmit buffers to 128.

- Make a restore point

- Disable all unused and unnecessary devices using device managers 'show by connection' view. This is dangerous, and why we made a restore point. Running minimserver, I disable as many devices as possible, the HD audio drivers, unused PCIE buses, serial ports . . . etc. Audiophil documents this procedure in the AO installation guide.

- Make a restore point

- There are many standard and non-standard loggers running in the WIN10 release. I turn off all WMI logging using Computer Management/Systemtools/Performance/Data Collector Sets/Startup Event Traces/ including and espcially ReadyBoot.

 

The Win10 preview runs a keylogger, that can be disabled using the script below in the command line with admin privileges:

 

sc delete dmwappushsvc

sc delete "Diagnostics Tracking Service"

cd C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Diagnosis\ETLLogs\AutoLogger

echo "" > AutoLogger-Diagtrack-Listener.etl

cacls AutoLogger-Diagtrack-Listener.etl /d SYSTEM

 

- Start eliminating services, first stopping them from services manager, testing, and later by disabling them in service manager. Screenshots of the remaining and disabled services on my machine are below. Note - Leave the Windows Management Instrumentation service running if you use HQplayer.

 

Once done with the above steps your machine will boot into the normal Windows desktop. Once there I go into the Task Manager Details tab and manually kill the following processes:

 

Explorer

WSHOST

and All Brokers

 

This last step is optional.

 

In the end, there are 25 processes running with 26 services, see below. Using the task manager run tab to browse to your music player and start it running. Once done, go to the task manager details tab, right click and assign process priority. My suggestion is to use realtime priortity for your player. When I forget to change the priority, I can immediately hear the degradation in SQ.

 

This config has been tested with Minimserver and HQPlayer only. With other players YMMV.

 

The SQ with this configuration is incredible. Some of this maybe overkill and controversial. Also, I am sure much more can be done, but this is a good start.

 

My hope is that someone, will automate this process for Win10. Hint, Hint . Rest assured, it won't be me.

 

Enjoy,

 

Larry

[lmitche]

Lionel,

 

I would say yes. The reason is that the timing improves dramatically, as spurious Windows events are disabled. Windows uses the it's boot disk in very promiscuous ways. Stopping that improves SQ dramatically. Also, as has been said before, WIN10 just sounds better than previous versions of both the desktop and server editions.

[lmitche]

As promised.

 

Warning: - Do this only if you are dedicating your machine to playing audio. We are going to be disabling the general purpose functions of Microsoft Windows in an effort to make your machine a dedicated realtime audio player.

 

Tuning the Win10 10041 preview for realtime audio takes time. Here is what I do:

 

- During Windows installation take the custom route and disable all options except for driver downloads.

- Make a restore point immediately after installation.

- Enable Remote Desktop sharing if you need remote access.

- Turn off all firewalls and malware protection from the control panels.

- Download and use the Microsoft autoruns tool to unload all startup programs and unused drivers. There are many. Makes sure you load the NIC driver.

- If you have 2 NICs, setup network bridging across both NICs and set a static IP address. This eliminates the need for a noisy network switch.

- Disable all offload settings on the NICs, except IP and TCP checksum offloads. Set transmit buffers to 128.

- Make a restore point

- Disable all unused and unnecessary devices using device managers 'show by connection' view. This is dangerous, and why we made a restore point. Running minimserver, I disable as many devices as possible, the HD audio drivers, unused PCIE buses, serial ports . . . etc. Audiophil documents this procedure in the AO installation guide.

- Make a restore point

- There are many standard and non-standard loggers running in the WIN10 release. I turn off all WMI logging using Computer Management/Systemtools/Performance/Data Collector Sets/Startup Event Traces/ including and espcially ReadyBoot.

 

The Win10 preview runs a keylogger, that can be disabled using the script below in the command line with admin privileges:

 

sc delete dmwappushsvc

sc delete "Diagnostics Tracking Service"

cd C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Diagnosis\ETLLogs\AutoLogger

echo "" > AutoLogger-Diagtrack-Listener.etl

cacls AutoLogger-Diagtrack-Listener.etl /d SYSTEM

 

- Start eliminating services, first stopping them from services manager, testing, and later by disabling them in service manager. Screenshots of the remaining and disabled services on my machine are below. Note - Leave the Windows Management Instrumentation service running if you use HQplayer.

 

Once done with the above steps your machine will boot into the normal Windows desktop. Once there I go into the Task Manager Details tab and manually kill the following processes:

 

Explorer

WSHOST

and All Brokers

 

This last step is optional.

 

In the end, there are 25 processes running with 26 services, see below. Using the task manager run tab to browse to your music player and start it running. Once done, go to the task manager details tab, right click and assign process priority. My suggestion is to use realtime priortity for your player. When I forget to change the priority, I can immediately hear the degradation in SQ.

 

This config has been tested with Minimserver and HQPlayer only. With other players YMMV.

 

The SQ with this configuration is incredible. Some of this maybe overkill and controversial. Also, I am sure much more can be done, but this is a good start.

 

My hope is that someone, will automate this process for Win10. Hint, Hint . Rest assured, it won't be me.

 

Enjoy,

 

Larry

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18720[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]18721[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]18722[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]18723[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]18724[/ATTACH]

 

Addendum:

 

To be more explicit, on the optional last step you can safely kill the following processes:

 

Explorer.exe (Do this first or get a nasty error message)

ApplicationFrameHost.exe

RuntimeBroker.exe

ShellExperienceHost.exe

Sihost.exe

WShost.exe

 

Also, if you use Remote Desktop rdpclip.exe will be running. You can kill that as well, but it will be re-started on each remote connection, so it needs to be killed every time RDP is used.

[lmitche]

Hi Larry. Of course we're now on Preview Build 10122 (at least if you've asked for the "faster" feed of new builds in your Windows Update settings), so now that you've done this great work: What's changed?

 

Actually, I have no idea what has changed in the recent builds as Windows update is turned off on my machine. The system is stable now, and sounds great, so there is no need to update. I'll probably leave the system as is, until WIN 10 ships this summer.

 

If you learn anything, please share, thanks.

[lmitche]

Is the Windows Management Instrumentation service running?

[lmitche]

My suggestion for tasting HQ Player would be to invest in a Corning optical USB cable and hook up the Win 8.1 work station to your Regen green. That will block a large percentage of the noise coming from the work station as confirmed by John Swenson in one of his early posts. However start using HQ Player with a conventional copper USB cable when setting up the DAC USB driver, and getting the Regen recognized as a hub by Win 8.1. Once it's all working, then connect the Corning to a USB 3 port and to the Regen

 

You could do a 2 PC setup, with HQPlayer running on the big PC and NAA running on the MB Air. Take a look at Eurodrivers excellent posts on using an optical ethernet interface between the two PCs on the network isolation thread. Running Win10 will also give you a big improvement over Windows 8.1.

 

This way, when the new Sonore device ships, it will be an easy matter to replace the MB Air. I run HQPlayer this way now, with a SMS-100 running the NAA. The SQ is terrific, unbelievable really. Having said this, the new Sonore device will be my next major upgrade. Very exciting times!

[lmitche]

Not doubting your statement at all (I've seen this said a few times elsewhere), so just curious, why would Win10 improve SQ over 8.1?

 

The truth is that I don't know why Win10 sounds better then windows 8.1, and Windows Server 2012, but it does and the difference isn't subtle. I would conjecture that the scheduling algorithm and inter-process communication model has changed at the kernel level. It is tough to know for sure.

 

Anyway, it's free to try, and very worthwhile. Look in my previous posts in this thread for a method to tune Win10 manually. Alternatively, it looks like Audiophile Optimizer will soon be available on Win10, which will make the process much easier for everyone.

 

Larry

[lmitche]

It looks like the volume control, upper right, is set to zero DB.

[lmitche]

Where is the documentation to do this? I'm not going to do the optical as it shouldn't be needed to see what HQ is about. If it is, there are much larger issues.

 

This is already the issue with these types of things though. Little documentation and everything is fuzzy. Hate it.

 

Hi Jason, It looks like you have HQPlayer running on your PC. To get the NAA running on the MB Air just download the executable from the HQplayer website and run it on the MAC, plug in the DAC, and then run HQPlayer on your PC. On the PC use the HQplayer the settings menu and choose the NAA/Vega. If all goes well, your Vega DAC will show up as a device. There is no driver required for the MAC as USB audio is already supported.

 

This works with my SMS100 running with the Auralic Vega just perfectly.

 

I have read reports that others have had difficulty with the HQPlayer/NAA link. YMMV.

[lmitche]

Ted, yes that sounds like a reasonable approach. However with a NAA, I wouldn't advocate WiFi in any case. Copper is a start, but optical is the best way forward. Do you agree?

[lmitche]

With the Amber REGEN behind the green there was no need for the Corning anymore. Two Supras are used instead. The Corning is serving duty connecting the music server and a 4tb hard disk USB 3 UASP enclosure.

[lmitche]

Hifitubes,

 

You should know that the Vega loves the REGEN. Just get a good LPS to power it. The supplied SMPS is OK, but a decent LPS takes SQ to a different level.

 

After several months owning the REGEN, I am still tweaking USB cables & adapters and power supply combos with the Vega. It just keeps getting better. In exact mode this DAC is one sensitive beast.

 

Two jitterbugs arrive tomorrow.

[lmitche]

Oh yeah Windows 8.1

 

Windows 10, properly tuned, will surprise you.

[lmitche]

Server computer is a underpowered broadwell NUC, but still only runs at 20-35% CPU load upsampling to DSD 128. So I don't think that's too bad.

 

Doesn't HQplayer support the AVX vector processing instruction set? AVX is missing from Atom and Celeron parts, so I am not sure you have heard what HQplayer really sounds like.

 

Getting the NAA to run with Windows is a PITA. With the same hardware setup running two Linux OS boxes, it just works.

 

There is something screwy or missing with either the Windows ethernet multicast stack, or the HQplayer implementation on Windows. I have managed to get HQplayer talking to a Linux NAA from Windows at least once, but it was fragile. It was a long time ago, so the details are fuzzy.

[lmitche]

Hi, what do you mean by properly tuned? Any link?

 

Several months ago, I posted a long windows 10 tuning guide in this thread. You will have to search for it. edbk is also doing a Windows tuning thread.

 

Lastly, AO for Win 10 will arrive soon, which will automate this tedious process.

[lmitche]

Using an SMS-100 as NAA, SQ is noticeably better than using CAPS Pipeline on it's own. All other components are the same.

Hoping the uRendu will improve SQ even more when it arrives.

 

Same hopes here!

[lmitche]

Thank you. Would you call the Corning a liability now compared to the Supra in a Regen context ? thing is I really appreciate to have my laptop by my listening position now, and that means a minimum length of 5 m at least...

 

No, I cannot call the Corning cable a liability as I don't have the facts. There have been so many recent changes in this part of the system, I really must listen to the Corning between the SMS-100 and REGEN green before opining on SQ. I have two Cornings, so not a big deal. Give me a day or two and I'll report back.

[lmitche]

Thank you. Would you call the Corning a liability now compared to the Supra in a Regen context ? thing is I really appreciate to have my laptop by my listening position now, and that means a minimum length of 5 m at least...

 

Hi LCM,

 

Thanks for asking me to test the Corning cable.

 

Today I finally found the time to compare the Supra and the Corning cable. Again my new normal setup is SOTM SMS-100> AQJB (Audioquest Jitterbug) in USB 1 > .7m Supra > Green REGEN > .7m Supra > Amber REGEN >Hard Adapter > Auralic Vega DAC. The new normal includes keeping a second AQJB in USB 2 of the SOTM-SMS100. The REGENs twins are powered by the KECES DC-116 set to 9 volts on the two DC outputs.

 

Today I pulled the Supra and put the Corning between the USB 1 AQJB and the Green REGEN. Once again, there was an improvement to the sound, akin to the first time I tried the Corning. This surprised me because without the AQJB the Supra beats the Corning. Now it was the reverse. The most notable improvement was in the ambient space in the recording. It is as though you can see into the recording.

 

After about a half hour, in dawned on me that the REGEN end of the Corning was essentially a second host, so I pulled the second AQJB and placed it at the REGEN end of the Corning cable. This resulted in even more clarity with the "point source of sound" better defined in the soundstage. However this was at the cost of a little "punch". I expect removing the second AQJB from the SMS-100 was the cause of this loss. So looks like I now have to order another AQJB to prove this theory, when I can get one, they are sold out online.

 

Ugh, will it never stop! With all these gadgets between my DAC and host, the total cost is approaching a $1000 USB cable.

 

Well at least it keeps getting better!

 

God forbid they invent copper input ethernet DACs and we have to go through all this again! Now fiber based ethernet with DMA directly into the DAC input buffers would be cool. Until then, I think we are pretty close to having USB licked. SQ is way beyond any alternative source I have ever heard.

[lmitche]

Miska, does HQPlayer make use of Nvidia GPUs or AVX512 today?

[lmitche]

Way cool, will a PCIE x1 card meet the minimum requirements?

[lmitche]

A simple way to think about closed form filters is that the upsampled curves cross the original files sample points as read from the source files.

[lmitche]

An I7 6700K upsamples DSD 512 here at approx. 30% utilization.

[lmitche]

Ismewor, this sounds like a networking issue. Have you set static addresses for the qnap and player machines? Are you on a wireless or wired or hybrid network? Where is your router?