HQ Player

[EuroDriver]

Just started to use HQ Player to do Redbook to DSD128 conversion. We were previously using JRiver MC19 and were pretty seduced by the results. However HQPlayer is even better and we find the results to be glorious / stunning. Female voices and acoustic instruments seem to gain more texture and sound significantly more realistic than decoding the Redbook original

 

HQ Player feeding Exasound E20 MkIII with 0.83 fs clock

 

HQ Player highly recommended for a serious audition !

[EuroDriver]

Maybe it was you or bad timing? I say that as Jussi of Signalyst is very responsive, but I think is a one man show. You may see him here as "Miska". I'd try it again, it is worth it. His upsampling is considered one of, if not the foremost in the DIY circles, and one sees it compared as a benchmark to which others aspire. If you are looking to convert to DSD, well, Jussi has been a proponent of it longer than anyone I can recall around here.

 

Can your TP Buffalo II input DSD128 ?

 

What are your listening observations on PCM converted to DSD64 or DSD128 ?

[EuroDriver]

OK, so I have played around with DSD some after auditioning the lil iDSD Nano and rebuilding my DAC in so that I can run two different i2s signals and change with a digital switch. I am now smitten to the point where I did some analog/DSD observations yesterday on the same content. Although different, the DSD is decidedly more analog-esq. There is a bit less attack, but the whole is more cohesive and simply flows more smoothly than PCM. It was plainly easier to relax and "fall into" the music. Much of what I didn't like about DSD disappeared when adjusting settings in HQPlayer (and abandoning JRiver).

 

My TP Buffalo II/Amanero combo will do up to DSD256 btw.

 

thanks for sharing your observations, you have made my morning ! Let's us know when you have had a chance to use HQP to upsample DSD64 content to DSD256 using HQP

 

which noise shaping do you like ? Our current favorite is DSD7

 

on the hardware side, how much of a difference do you think the I2S brings to the system, and how much difference do the transformers make ? Who is the supplier of the transformers ?

[EuroDriver]

As you explore and experiment with HQ Player, do try playback with and without volume control in HQ Player.

 

Start your testing sessions with no volume control, and after you have gotten used to the glorious sound of HQ Player, then try with volume control if you would like to have the convenience

[EuroDriver]

I always leave volume at -3dB, both with PCM and SDM output, to avoid sample overload which is present on a quite a few recordings. Such setting is totally inifluential in terms of SQ. In the TIME box there is a "Limited" indicator to help you on this matter.

For DSD I have it set at +6dB compensation, so with my volume setting playback it's always at -3dB.

 

On a track with no sample overload, can you try with no volume adjustment and let us know what your observations are. Can you do this with both a PCM track for PCM to DSD128/256 and a native DSD64 track to do DSD to DSD128/256 ?

[EuroDriver]

My Core 2 Duo MBP seemed much happier with PCM oversampling than it was when oversampling from PCM to DSD. No dropouts with oversampling to DSD64, though there was breakup when trying oversampling to DSD128, but even with DSD64 sound wasn't as good. I'll see whether the volume setting makes a difference.

 

I think MBP has a P8600 CPU, in which case it has a benchmark score of about 1,500

PassMark - Intel Core2 Duo P8600 @ 2.40GHz - Price performance comparison

 

My Item T1 has an i5 with a benchmark score of about 6,000 and can handle the polysinc-2S filter with great results

 

Geoff's quad core Mac Pro has a benchmark score of about 9,000 can can do the polysinc filter which my T1 can not handle

 

I have an i7 hexcore on order to slip into the T1, but it will need to be underclocked to keep the heat output under control

[EuroDriver]

I just did and in both cases I cannot detect any difference (I have a ES9018 based volume control).

Do you?

 

Many Thanks for the above

 

My Exasound is also ES9018 but the volume control implementation is not "standard". I am not clear how analog the implementation is, but what we did find that the system sounded better when HQP was set at 0dB and we used the Exasound's volume control, than when we had no volume control on the Exasound, and at 2 O'clock on the HQP volume control.

 

Seems like which volume control sounds better : HQP, DAC or Pre Amp if there is one, needs testing for each individual system

[EuroDriver]

P8700 in my case - the benchmark is a lofty 1,667!

 

Mac Mini i7 quad core for Polysinc 2S or a MAC Pro quad core for full Polysinc, the bits are waiting ;-)

[EuroDriver]

My 2012 MacBook Pro (2.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 16GB RAM) does not skip a beat upsampling DSD64 > DSD128 or PCM > DSD128 - CPU runs at less than 15% throughout. no drops, etc. Very nice

 

poly-sinc-short-mp DSD5v2

 

7184 benchmark :-)

[EuroDriver]

I'm using the last build of the HQPlayer MAC version but I hear some distortion/electric noise for the high frequencies in one of the channels...

Does anyone experience my same issue?

Tks

 

What model / vintage Mac with which processor are you using ?

 

what input data format, and which output data format ?

 

which filter settings are you running ?

 

we have gotten screechy sound when running a filter and input data format that was taxing our computer to heavily

[EuroDriver]

Hello.

 

It seems most who posted on this thread about the sonic benefits of HQPlayer over other players did so in the context of upsampling PCM to DSD, and most also commented in the context of Mac.

 

How is the sound quality in PCM vs JRiver, in Windows?

 

Thanks!

 

Geoff Armstrong and I have extensively tested JRMC19, Foobar + SACD plugin, and HQ Player in both Win 8 and MacOS Core Audio and to NAA doing PCM to DSD and DSD 64 to DSD128 and DSD 256

 

As far as online / on the fly, HQ Player sounds by far the best. With its most computational intensive oversampling filter Polysinc, the CPU load is hefty, you will need a speed i5 or i7. Polysinc-2s has a much lighter load and will run on speedy duo core. [24/192 > DSD 256 on 3.2 GHz Win 8 quadcore, 50pct CPU]

 

Foobar with SACD plugin, both of which are free, earns second place, the results are pretty good, very good if you have not been spoiled by HQ Player. Note you can run the SACD Plugin with JRMC 19 in place of JRMC's own PCM to DSD converter. The installation has quite a few steps, but it is free and sounds pretty good

 

In third place is JRMC 19's own conversion, still sounding good, but clearly not as good as the other 2. Geoff at the HiFi Deluxe show in Munich in May, won as best sound in show award using JRMC 19 conversion of PCM to DSD 128 which was then upsampled by a Antelope Zodiac Platinum to DSD 256

 

HQ Player Windows ASIO sounds a bit better than Mac Core Audio, it's a small difference, but audible. HQ Player playing to SOTM SMS-100 driving an OPPO 105 D sounded clearly greatly improved to going straight, which is a good demonstration of how well the NAA small quiet CPU concept works, at least for the OPPO DAC

 

We hear a difference between native DSD and DOP, the reason for the difference could be due to the extra procssing

 

Theses results are with the Exasound E20 Mk III with 0.82 clock > Hypex NCore NC400 > KEF Blades

 

PC's used were

 

Win 8 PC i5 3470 quad core chip,

Mac Pro 2014 with Xeon quad core, Maverick and Win 8.1

[EuroDriver]

Hello.

 

It seems most who posted on this thread about the sonic benefits of HQPlayer over other players did so in the context of upsampling PCM to DSD, and most also commented in the context of Mac.

 

How is the sound quality in PCM vs JRiver, in Windows?

 

Thanks!

 

Apologies for not answering the question !

 

HQ Player does a very impressive job of converting PCM 16/44 to PCM 24/352. I would say its about 2/3 rds of the sound quality improvement of going from 16/44 to DSD256. I have not done a head to head comparison with JRMC 19 doing the same conversion

[EuroDriver]

Hello.

 

It seems most who posted on this thread about the sonic benefits of HQPlayer over other players did so in the context of upsampling PCM to DSD, and most also commented in the context of Mac.

 

How is the sound quality in PCM vs JRiver, in Windows?

 

Thanks!

 

Now I have done a head to head comparison of 24/192 converted to 24/384

 

JRMC19 does a nice job, but HQ Player is very noticeably better

 

The cymbals or the remastered Kind of Blue sound very real on HQ Player, whereas JRMC sounds like just a nice recording

 

This on a very mid fi system, Cambridge Audi 651 amp driving Canton Karat 720.2 DC bookshelf speakers with zip cord speaker cables (cut up PC AC cords ;-)

[EuroDriver]

Hey EuroDriver.

 

So how do you control HQPlayer from a wireless device? I use JRemote with JRiver and have grown accostumed to the convenience...

 

 

When HQ Player is running in "Full Screen Mode" it is nicely controlable from tablet running a remote control app (I have yet to try this). HQ Player will also run nicely on a powerful Surface Pro 3, but you lap might get warm

 

It seems HQPlayer uses a setup along the lines of JPlay, with the "audioPC" here being the NAA, but a simpler/lower power Linux machine. right? Are people using audiophile USB cards on the NAA?

 

I believe a small minority of HQP users are playing via the NAA, due to the necessity of installing a Linux driver for the DAC. The majority of users are MAC OS playing via Core Audio direct to the DAC. The next group is windows users who have installed drivers such as ASIO and are playing directly to their DAC.

 

The NAA's working out there are the SOTM SMS-100 and various ARM boxes. I believe there have also been some Linux installs on Mac minis. So I would guess there are no NAA installations with audiophile PCIe USB cards out there

[EuroDriver]

Sorry EuroDriver, but I think Miska will tell you that you have it backwards. HQP desktop has been available under Windows (and Linux) for longer than OS X. Moreover it was only very recently that the OS X version could even be run without an NAA as Miska was avoiding the chore of working with Core Audio. So most of installed base of HQP is Window with direct connection to DAC via USB.

 

As for the NAA, I think most DACs do not require a special Linux driver as I believe the popular XMOS USB processor is automatically recognized. Rule of thumb: if your DAC needs a special driver for direct operation (with any player) under Mac or Windows, then you are likely to need a Linux driver to have it work with the NAA. Those should be the minority, not the majority.

 

I may be wrong about any of the above, but those have been my impressions from the periphery. (I'm not yet an HQP user, but I'm getting there!)

 

Best,

--Alex

 

Hi Alex,

 

Mac Core audio is the new kid on the block, but judging by the posting traffic here and on the Italian website there seems to have been a lot of downloads and successful installations of the MAC Core Audio beta.

 

In contrast I have only seen one post about the SOTM SMS-100 implementation, and a number of posts by users in Italy who have been struggling with the NAA on various boxes, who were then delighted when the MAC Core Audio beta was released

 

As to Windows users, I am feeling kind of lonely. (Geoff has both !)

 

My perception that the big driver in recent interest has been PCM to DSD conversion which HQ Player does so well

 

Best Regards

 

Ed

[EuroDriver]

 

I don’t know that this all translates directly to HQPlayer>SMS-100 as an NAA but I sure don’t think it hurts – and I really like having that hefty PC (which it must be to get the best out of HQPlayer) on the other end of my wired network. It’s also nice not to be obsessing over building and tweaking a do-all PC to feed that USB dac directly – the NAA just does that one task clean, simple and quiet.

 

Talking about noisy PC, on my rebuilt i5 that now has a big CPU cooler, I also connected a 140 mm Noctura fan that is connected to the 5v bus coming from the PICO PSU. The fan is inaudible, but the RF signature of this fan when it is switched on and using about 1 watt power is audible and detrimental to the sound. I was amazed that the fan motor and its electronics could have such a negative influence, and this is to a Exasound DAC that is galvanically isolated. Goes to show that the NAA concept has a big advantage

[EuroDriver]

Interesting. I've heard the Exasound in a few systems and loved it - especially with DSD. When they release drivers that allow the HQPlayer>NAA thing to work, I think I will move up to the E22, I'd love to hear what HQPlayer could do with an Exasound via NAA.

 

Me too ! Question is to go with a SOTM SMS-100 or a Cubox-i, or something similar

 

I have to say, I am leaning towards the SMS-100 as the HQ Player NAA is pre installed !

[EuroDriver]

Hello EuroDriver. You could connect a battery to the Noctua and avoid the electrical contamination it's injecting. Something like an Anker E4 would work perfect. You just need an USB to Noctua-plug adapter. I tried the Anker to independently power my OS SSD with 5V, so should work well here too.

 

An Independant 5v supply for the fan is what I am planning to do. I should also cut some vents in the casing above the CPU cooler, then natural convection will probably be enough to keep temps under control

 

I tried powering my Exasound with an Anker Gen 2 pack, but it sounded noticeably worse than the supplied wall wart which has a big ferrite on the lead. For the wall wart to sound better, was quite a surprise for me

[EuroDriver]

3.4.1 is the fully released, and available to down load from the Signalyst website

 

on my system sounds noticeably better than 3.3 ! HQP has increased the sound quality gap over the other players

[EuroDriver]

Tried HQplayer with a Grace Design m920 XMOS chip front end with what I would consider standard off the shelf settings. It works fine PCM and DSD, using DoP for the SDM settings and ASIO. System is Win7 SP1, using the supplied Win drivers.

 

When I try a different DAC, Playback Designs MPD-3, and removing the DoP setting, still ASIO, all DSD playback grinds to a halt, pressing play on a track selection moves the advance cursor very slowly updates several seconds in one go and there's no output at all. There's a Cirrus Logic front end in this DAC.

 

Tried a few different settings for DSD7, 5 etc with much the same response. Reboot a couple of times, still same response. At a loss where to go further, if someone has some ideas, would be greatly appreciated.

 

The MPD-3 works from Jriver playing native DSD and regular, horez PCM files, no issue.

 

I believe the MPD-3 is only reading native DSD content transfered to it over USB in DOP container format

 

If you go to the Playback Design Website, Hi Res page, and click on the Audiovarna set up screen shot, it shows that the Native DSD option box shows [DSD over PCM Standard 1.0]

 

the JRiver set up page does not show what the transmission format is, but it would seem to be the case that it is DOP

 

Andreas Koch of PBD was one of the prime movers along with DCS to create the DOP container standard.

[EuroDriver]

Can one of you tell me if this statement is accurate as regards the processor power needed for PCM to DSD on the fly conversion:

 

My apologies, my i5 is running at 3.2 GHz, not 3.4 GHz

 

if I were building a PC now , I would go for a Haswell first generation i5 or i7 chip with a Z87 Intel mobo or a Haswell 2nd gen chip with a ASUS Z97 mobo. Best to hang on a little while for the CAPS v4

[EuroDriver]

I am using HQPlayer in Windows 7 and it sounds wonderful.

 

PS: I love this program. The sound quality is astounding played through my dsd dac with redbook converted to dsd 256. Just amazing.

 

what settings are you using and which DAC do you have ?

 

have you tried any 24/96 or 24/192 material converted to DSD256 ?

[EuroDriver]

I listened to ASDM5 today and compared it with DSD7 (which has been my favorite) listening to violin classical, and Astrid Gilberto

 

for me DSD 7 is like a high resolution photograph, whilst ASDM5 is like a fine impressionist painting. On harsh recordings, ASDM5 sands off the rough edges, and makes them un fatiguing. For good recordings, DSD7 is still my absolute favorite, the detail is amazing

 

the range of sound styles available with HQ Player is very broad.

 

my 2 cents with my old ears listening on MAC Pro > Exasound E22 > Hypex NCore > KEF Blades at Geoff Armstrong's Sound Galeries

[EuroDriver]

Nevermind, I installed it on my Rasp-Pi and it worked. And the sound is surprisingly good.

 

Is Rasp-pi feeding your ifiDSDmicro ?

 

feeding DSD native or DOP ?

 

can it handle DSD256 ?

[EuroDriver]

Yes, The RaspPi is feeding my iDSD Micro.

However, it has the problem that we know too well by now; the current linux ALSA driver is

restricted to DoP only If I do not switch from SDM native to DoP in HQP settings, DSD playback is NOT possible.

Also, it has a strange symptom that I have to investigate further, it seems when i try to stream DSD256, there is simply no sound, not even stuttering. And I thought DoP can support up to DSD256 on the iDSD Micro, it's just DSD512 that is not possible. I know

for sure that my late 2013 Macbook Pro has enough juice to upsample PCM to DSD256.

 

Do you have similar experience?

 

No experience as still waiting for the Linux driver for the Exasound ! The sterling work which Exasound did to produce a ASIO driver for MAC OS is certainly a promising indicator of what Exasound will do for their upcoming Linux driver.