I wouldn't have believed it!

[Paul R]

And thus we have here, an excellent, sane, summation of the whole issue. +1

-Paul

 

 

I know several people who has that fixed idea. Most of them have so much of their own ego wrapped up in that notion, that they wouldn't admit that they were wrong if you rubbed their nose in it. I'll even mention a name here: Arnie Kruger - the guy who famously did the Great Audio Debate with John Atkinson (and was creamed by him). Kruger things everything sounds the same; CD players, DACs, pre-amps, amps, tuners - basically all electronics. He claims that a cheap Panasonic AV receiver purchased from Costco sounds exactly like an Amp from Krell or Audio Research or Bryston, etc.

 

Now, my expectation was to hear no differences between the new DragonFly and the original one, and if there were any differences, I would have expected them to be of the ephemeral quality that those who "hear" audio interconnects talk about. But these are so pronounced that they are like the differences between an inexpensive DAC and a very high end one. Not to infer that the v.1.2 is in the same league as an MSB DAC IV Diamond or a dCS Puccini, but the magnitude of difference between the old one and the new one is that dramatic and un-subtle.

 

 

 

Agreed, aural memory is very fleeting. That's why I was motivated to find a way to switch between the two DragonFlys instantaneously (well, that and my naturally inherent laziness ). I felt that the time it took to swap the two DACs out physically was too long to make any accurate assessment as to whether the two units were truly different or fundamentally the same. Of course, my observations were further validated by the single-blind test, where I listened and my friend who owned the v.1.2 switched (I didn't tell him which input on my amp's remote control was assigned to which DAC, so he was merely pushing buttons not know what he was switching to...) and I was able to pick-out the v.1.2 ten out of ten tries. When he took the hot seat and I stood behind him and did the switching, he was able to pick the v.1.2 ten out of 10 tries. That's pretty much enough for me to say what I said in another post. While the differences aren't as great as speaker differences, they are greater than the differences between two very good amplifiers and thus very identifiable.

 

 

 

That's my opinion as well.

 

 

 

Agreed.

[4est]

It would be measuring the difference of the two.

You'd need two Audio voltmeters to do that. Otherwise, it's just the same as measuring each separately, isn't it?

[cbc]

I'm thinking of getting one of these dacs. But the connection to anything but a pair of headphones seems problematic. It's got this 3.5mm output, so do you need adaptors for PC and home audio? I figure you connect an adaptor cable with 2 3.5mm plugs for the "front" "back" of a 5.1 setup on a PC but what about regular audio systems? They seem pretty vague about this with no block diagrams or anything. (Not that I really need them but they wouldn't hurt for clarity)

[Steve7]

cbc - A 3.5 mm (mini-plug) to double RCA crossover cable will do the trick for a Dragonfly mounted between a computer and your audio system. The input (computer) end is just a standard male USB plug to insert into one of your computer's USB ports. I have one these 1.2 units and really like it as it's portable for both home and travel listening for a very reasonable price.

[gmgraves]

I'm thinking of getting one of these dacs. But the connection to anything but a pair of headphones seems problematic. It's got this 3.5mm output, so do you need adaptors for PC and home audio? I figure you connect an adaptor cable with 2 3.5mm plugs for the "front" "back" of a 5.1 setup on a PC but what about regular audio systems? They seem pretty vague about this with no block diagrams or anything. (Not that I really need them but they wouldn't hurt for clarity)

 

 

All you need is a stereo cable with a 3.5mm stereo phone plug on one end, and a pair of RCA plugs on the other. There are lots of them out there.

 

MyCableMart.com

 

Or, conversely, just an adapter with a 3.5 mm plug on one end and a pair of stereo female RCAs on the other, then you can use whatever cable you wish.

 

MyCableMart.com

 

or:

 

MyCableMart.com

[cbc]

Yea, I just received this dragonfly dac and I've been auditioning, auditioning, auditioning. Thanks steve and GM for the advice about the interconnects. I was a little confused at first because I didn't notice the detail about the mini audio cable option. Anyway, I don't have a high-end 3.5mm so I'm (temporarily) using the green cable from the PC tri-connector. (yea ugh) You'll need good interconnect (audioquest)? if you want use the 96k S. R. without a frightening array of shimmery jitters (dropouts; snapcracklepops). I'm leaning toward the evergreen, monster or scosche cables. Anyway I love it even mp3s on 44k, can't wait to boost it up with the better cable. (Maybe Let It Be isn't such a crappy Beatles album after all). cbc

[gmgraves]

Yea, I just received this dragonfly dac and I've been auditioning, auditioning, auditioning. Thanks steve and GM for the advice about the interconnects. I was a little confused at first because I didn't notice the detail about the mini audio cable option. Anyway, I don't have a high-end 3.5mm so I'm (temporarily) using the green cable from the PC tri-connector. (yea ugh) You'll need good interconnect (audioquest)? if you want use the 96k S. R. without a frightening array of shimmery jitters (dropouts; snapcracklepops). I'm leaning toward the evergreen, monster or scosche cables. Anyway I love it even mp3s on 44k, can't wait to boost it up with the better cable. (Maybe Let It Be isn't such a crappy Beatles album after all). cbc

 

You seem to be talking about the audio cable (you mention the 3.5mm mini-phone plug connector) between the DragonFly and your preamp/amp. If you are, (and not talking about the USB connection on the other end of the device) then I have to tell you that at that point you are dealing with an audio signal which has nothing whatsoever to do "shimmery Jitters (dropouts, snapcracklepops)" or the ability to handle the digital to audio conversion of 96 KHz. Whether you believe in audio cables' ability to overlay a "sound" onto a component or not, is, of course, up to your own audio "religious" beliefs, but believe me, an Evergreen, Monster, or Scosche analog audio cable will have NO effect on the digital performance of the DragonFly*.

 

*I have a 2-meter AudioQuest "Big Sur" cable with a 3.5mm stereo connector on one end and a pair of left/right RCAs on the other end that I use to connect my DragonFly to my amp. I also have a likewise configured cable from MyCableMart. The 'Big Sur' cable cost about $140 retail (came with my original v.1.0 DragonFly review sample and I need to return it to AudioQuest at some point) and the MyCableMart cable cost less than six dollars retail! Sound-wise I hear absolutely no discernible audible difference between the two, and the MyCableMart cable seems just as well made, using as good quality components, as is the DragonFly "Big Sur" example.

[RealAudio]

You seem to be talking about the audio cable (you mention the 3.5mm mini-phone plug connector) between the DragonFly and your preamp/amp. If you are, (and not talking about the USB connection on the other end of the device) then I have to tell you that at that point you are dealing with an audio signal which has nothing whatsoever to do "shimmery Jitters (dropouts, snapcracklepops)" or the ability to handle the digital to audio conversion of 96 KHz. Whether you believe in audio cables' ability to overlay a "sound" onto a component or not, is, of course, up to your own audio "religious" beliefs, but believe me, an Evergreen, Monster, or Scosche analog audio cable will have NO effect on the digital performance of the DragonFly*.

 

*I have a 2-meter AudioQuest "Big Sur" cable with a 3.5mm stereo connector on one end and a pair of left/right RCAs on the other end that I use to connect my DragonFly to my amp. I also have a likewise configured cable from MyCableMart. The 'Big Sur' cable cost about $140 retail (came with my original v.1.0 DragonFly review sample and I need to return it to AudioQuest at some point) and the MyCableMart cable cost less than six dollars retail! Sound-wise I hear absolutely no discernible audible difference between the two, and the MyCableMart cable seems just as well made, using as good quality components, as is the DragonFly "Big Sur" example.

 

 

How dare you challenge the fundamental principle of the audiophile market, fleecing customers who have more dollars than sense.

[wgscott]

The 3.5 mm connector can have just as much influence as the purple power cord!

[gmgraves]

How dare you challenge the fundamental principle of the audiophile market, fleecing customers who have more dollars than sense.

 

 

I know that your response was made with tongue firmly planted in your cheek (or perhaps even protruding through it!), but in case there are people here who will take your words seriously, let me point out, that I am not criticizing the OP's belief that an AudioQuest Evergreen, a Monster Cable or a Scosche audio cable can/will affect the sound of his DragonFly v.1.2; I'm merely pointing out that an audio cable has nothing whatsoever to do with "problems" which might be encountered when the signal is in the digital domain.

[gmgraves]

The 3.5 mm connector can have just as much influence as the purple power cord!

 

I'm sure it does...

[sandyk]

I'm sure it does...

 

Quite often, repeated insertions can lead to niggling problems due to fracturing of the soldered joints with the socket, or loss of tension in the mating section of the socket. This is a common reported fault in some forums.

You need both quality plugs AND sockets.

[wgscott]

Quite often, repeated insertions can lead to niggling problems due to fracturing of the soldered joints with the socket, or loss of tension in the mating section of the socket. This is a common reported fault in some forums.

You need both quality plugs AND sockets.

 

This is why I gave up on sex.

[sandyk]

This is why I gave up on sex.

 

In your case it's more likely to be as in that old Lucille Ball TV series ?

[gmgraves]

Quite often, repeated insertions can lead to niggling problems due to fracturing of the soldered joints with the socket, or loss of tension in the mating section of the socket. This is a common reported fault in some forums.

You need both quality plugs AND sockets.

 

Yes, 3.5mm mini-phone plugs are especially susceptible to this kind of wear, and thus are quite unreliable. But that wasn't what I was being sarcastic about.

[sandyk]

Yes, 3.5mm mini-phone plugs are especially susceptible to this kind of wear, and thus are quite unreliable. But that wasn't what I was being sarcastic about.

Hi George

I thought you were trying to refrain from being sarcastic ?

I doubt that your point would have been lost on most though.

 

Regards

Alex

[gmgraves]

Hi George

I thought you were trying to refrain from being sarcastic ?

I doubt that your point would have been lost on most though.

 

Regards

Alex

 

 

No, I was being sarcastic. WGSCOTT's post provided the context.

[James1776]

I also have both devices. I cannot hear a difference when using the devices on my PC with Powered speakers BUT, I can hear an improvement when I connect them to my phone through earbuds and play the same Hi-Rez files....

[James1776]

Quite often, repeated insertions can lead to niggling problems due to fracturing of the soldered joints with the socket, or loss of tension in the mating section of the socket. This is a common reported fault in some forums.

You need both quality plugs AND sockets.

 

AMEN! I use a portable setup that needs to be assembled every time it is used. I have gone through a score of cheap OTG/USB cables from my phones (Motorola Razor, Sony Xperia Z and Samsung S4) to the DAC as they all seem to have a shelf life. I really wish someone made a quality SHORT cable that would not fail after a few score connect and reconnects...and the phone makers built a USB socket worth a darn. In addition, my spouse is having trouble with her Toshiba tablet as the socket on that device seems to be getting damaged with normal charging connect and disconnect operations.

[cbc]

Ended up getting a Scosche cable. It was interesting while researching to find out the kind of high-end cables that are available. There's a European one that costs 80 euros, and it looks great. But, if it isn't durable how it looks won't help.

But that orange-black-green PC cable was el-crappo (it even made scratching noise when I moved it). I like the Scosche cable and have no regrets - but time will tell.

 

cbc