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Router and Ethernet Switch suggestions


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I have experimented with these things continuously since I went from CD playback to a Slim Devices Transporter 10 years ago.

 

At no time since then have I ever found wireless anywhere near acceptable in terms of stability or SQ.

 

A few months ago, I invested in TP-Link fiberoptics, based on high praise here and elsewhere. It didn't take long to discover that the SQ was markedly inferior to wire.

 

I have had positive experiences with the Aqvox 5V wall wart and USB cables, so after the Hifi Statement review, I decided to take a chance. The switch appears to build on Paul Pang's work and I have had great results with several of his products.

When you get that Aqvox switch-8 please report back with your impressions. I am very interested!

Do not forget to ground it to your Entreq grounding box. I just tried my simple battery powered D-Link DSG-105 switch grounded to my Entreq Minimus and was truly amazed by the result. The best spot for the Minimus in my setup up to date! ?

Oh, one more thing. Try it with input on socket 1 and output on socket 8. Sounds best IMO, and my guess it is partly due to the QoS feature of D-Link.

 

 

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Since QOS is a traffic prioritization method, and it sound's like it comes pre-configured, how can someone know what type of traffic QOS is enabled for? How does the manufacturer know what protocols and services you are using so they can configure QOS?

 

You would be better off with a layer three managed switch, and setup your audio playback chain in its own VLAN where no other traffic makes it from other non-music devices instead of attempting to QOS your entire environment.

 

They don´t! QoS on D-link switches just have the highest priority on the last 2 ports. Soundwise it is actually a big difference with my 5 port switch using port 2 vs 5 as output. If this is due to QoS is as I wrote just a guess...but it is a fact that it sounds better on the last port using Tidal as source. Go figure! :)

 

 

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Why not get a $100 switch and enable QoS then? I hope you see the point I'm trying to make.

 

If QOS sounds better, then VLAN's are going to go one step further since you have established a smaller broadcast domain in addition to not having to have the Switches CPU engaged for traffic shaping and prioritization.

 

VLANs are almost CPU load neutral while QOS isn't and the CPU in the Dlink isn't anything to write home about.

Thanks pilissken! I will check out those VLANs. Any pointer were to start that journey? Will they work with Aries Mini?

 

I am over the moon with externally grounded and battery powered D-Link switch, Cat 6A U/UTP cables, router with galvanicly isolated linear PSU and TP Link RE450 (wireless adapter) connected to a isolation transformer with floating secondary. Sounds much better than a battery powered FMC chain. If you mean that VLAN could top this up I am all ears! ?

 

 

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Thanks @pilissken for that detailed info regarding VLANs. I have setup my TP Link RE450 (as wireless adapter) with 5ghz only, static IP and DHCP off. It is only communicating with the D-Link unmanaged switch via short Cat 6a U/UTP cables (50+30cm). Is this completely different to VLAN? I am not a network guru. I just know that this approach sounds awesome, even though the galvanicly isolated ac mains connections to all network devices was the real brake through.

 

 

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Your switch is unmanaged and therefore most likely incapable of doing VLAN. Your router may be able to do VLAN. Is your RE450 your Internet router?

No, I have a Netgear CG3700EMR router (service providers choise) which is communicating via wireless ac (5Ghz only) to the TP Link 1750AC RE450 wireless extender (in wireless adapter mode). Cat6a U/UTP cables to D-Link DSG-105 to Auralic Aries Mini.

 

 

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I searched the PDF for the 3700 and it doesn't mention VLAN.

A pity! It would have been a fun experiment. You'll never know what might come out of it, even not everyone would agree...and I tend to like bad odds experiments! ? Anyway, I am extremely happy with the D-Link approach (input port1/output port 5) right now, but might pull the plug on the Aqvox switch-8 if it turns out truly great for other members.

Thanks for educating me in something that was fairly unknown to me (heard about it before though, but never took notice of it)! ?

 

 

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pulled this morning my trusty, good, old 10/100 PaulPang switch from the chain

was good 'till I only had a NAS and Mac mini plugged into it but since I started using Roon and an Aries as endpoint... it wasn't holding up anymore :(

 

replaced, for the moment, with a plain vanilla Netgear GS105E gigabit but, even though I'm powering it from a good LPS (as everything else)... must confess I'm feeling "a bit nervous" LOL!

so while leaving everything the way it is... I'm looking around ;)

 

Paul Pang now makes a gigabit switch and I've also seen this one by Jcat which looks the same as the AQVox

re the Jcat vs AQVox it's not about price, just... so far my "don't buy from companies which go a long length about describing how their stuff does sound but say almost nothing about how it is made and why" has always proven right [emoji14] and both AQVox and Jcat's "technical description" look exactly the same

 

Paul Pang too now says quite a little about his mods plus... the switch he is using looks an old and discontinued model :rolleyes:

 

oh, and... all of the above are 8 ports but 5 is more than enough for my needs (and available space)

more ideas/suggestions?

Funny! I thought I was crazy when I ordered a second D-Link DSG-105 switch to experiment with a battery powered daisy-chain...until I saw this on the link you shared to Paul Pang's website.

 

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My wacky experiment suddenly turned into plain vanilla! ?

 

 

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I'm doing something similar here (but with just one PPA switch: the one connecting "audio devices") plus optical isolation between the two switches ;)

 

Since I have a pair of FMCs with 10m fiber-optical cable collecting dust it have actually crossed my mind to do something similar. That would however mean 4 battery packs in the chain in my case (2 for the switches + 2 for the FMCs), so I have decided to leave that idea in the freezer! ?

 

BTW. I strongly recommend you'll try to ground the switch. I connected mine to my Entreq Minimus and was amazed by the SQ jump.

 

 

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ok, two days after pulling that PaulPang 10/100 switch and... I can't really say I'm missing something

(even though I'm still nervous about using a "non audiophile" switch LOL!)

 

It's a long time since I started powering the switch itself (plus all the stuff it is connecting) from some (good to truly great) LPSs

back then, when I did, I "thought" there was indeed an improvement and a greater one than going, afterwards, from a "non audiophile" switch to the Paul Pang so... :-|

 

think I'll keep (... for a while :P ) everything as it now is and try, instead, powering also the FMC and switch north of the "audio zone" ones from better PS. Don't think it is worth going LPS there too: maybe... just try iFi iPower?

 

IME you should strive to connect the switch to something that is galvanicly isolated from the ac mains. No need for it to be an expensive solution with ultra low noise like a fancy LPSU or various Ultracap supplies. A galvanicly isolated lab psu, a battery pack disconnected from ac mains or the original SMPS plugged into a isolation transformer with floating secondary (ex. B&K 1604A) will do the trick. Also, if the switch have a GND screw in the back of the unit add a simple copper or silver plated wire between it and a free ac ground receptacle. If you own a grounding box it will be even better. Give it a try! I think you will be quite surpriced by the sq results with a plain vanilla switch! :)

 

 

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hhhhmmmm... I'm keeping all the grounding (and properly phasing) voodoo :P for when, some years from now, I'll hopefully move to the countryside and set up a "controlled" music room taking care, from the ground up, also of all the wiring/grounding stuff ;)

 

In this building where I have no idea what others might be doing with their grounds... =:-|

(already using isolation transformers for pre and power amplifier. plus the LPSs for everything else)

 

If was to spend $1000 on a grounding box... I'm sure a microRendu + LPS-1 for my secondary (headphones) system would bring a much greater SQ improvement ;)

And I'm already pretty happy with the main (speakers) one :-)

 

No need to buy a grounding box for the switch experiment. Just run a wire from the switch GND screw to a unused ground recepctacle in the wall ac outlet and connect the switch SMPS to the isolation transformer you already own. Easy to to and undo.

 

If you like the result and wish to see what a grounding box might do you can buy this one for under USD100.- Aucharm Audio Grounding Box with Crocodile lip Ground Wire | eBay when available again! ;)

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
2 hours ago, Confused said:

To be honest, I'd love to measure the noise floor for the Aqvox.  The trouble is it is not trivial for me, I do not have any test kit.

 

Do not forget to try to ground the AQVOX switch. Atleast two whom I know about have said it improved the sq on their AQVOX switches. I am expecting my AQVOX to arrive in a couple of days time and will surely ground it right away. My current plain vanilla D-Link DGS-105 switch improved vastly by external grounding. A floating ac ground connection is another thing that almost any network devices improves upon IME. Just a couple of friendly tips! ;)

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Confused said:

An interesting point.  For the record, my earlier observations re the Aqvox were made with it NOT connected to ground.  When I get a bit of time I'll make up a ground cable, give this a try, and report back.

 

Please do, it will be interesting to hear your impressions! ? Another thing that I forgot to mention is to make sure to use port 1 for input and port 8 for output. D-Link switches are using QoS and have the highest priority on the last port. Please report back with that one too if you have'nt connected it that way already. ?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Confused said:

I used ports 1 & 3.  :/  (Port 1 for the input, so not a total fail!)

 

Luckily it is extremely easy to change and see if it improves in your setup. It did with my plain vanilla switch and my guess is it will on AQVOX as well! ?

 

 

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6 hours ago, Celts88 said:

I'm due to get my AQVOX soon (posted last week) and will set-up the Port 1 & 8 as suggested, but sorry for the dumb question - how do I do the grounding cable???

 

I believe there's a connection on the AQVOX, but where do I attach the other end?

 

There is several ways to ground the AQVOX switch. The very best way to minimize interferences is to use a grounding box of any kind. Just attach the wire (any suitable sized stranded or solid copper silver wire down to 22awg).

 

If you do not own a grounding box you can ground the other end of the wire to the safety ground pin in the wall outlet or powerstrip (where available), attach it to a radiator water pipe (if you have any close by), connect it to the GND turntable screw on the preamp or integrated amp (if you have) or to anything else close by that you know is properly grounded.

 

Good luck! :)

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, m5sime said:

Hi - if anyone is interested,  I took my metal cased Netgear 8 port GBE switch apart and added a ground wire to one of the screws that connects the PCB ground plane to that of the metal chassis. I have been connecting and disconnecting to the mains ground during a track and cannot hear a difference. 

 

Interestingly if I touch this ground wire rapidly on the downstream spdif metal barreled cable from my streamer to the DAC I can get a tiny click sometimes so while the barrel is not ground, and likely is introducing some minor Dc current it has an effect. 

 

Thanks for sharing! I would'nt give up on it. Remember that you want to drain away noises from the switch so it is very important to use a good low impedance grounding path that also do not drain noises back to the audio system. I am using a grounding box myself which is highly recommended. To drain it elsewere will only give you a clue to what you can expect by this tweak.

 

BTW. How are you powering your Netgear switch? If it works with 5v you should try to connect a simple powerbank and power it with the AC charger disconnected while listening to music. 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, m5sime said:

Hi - the Netgear is 12V 1A and I have swapped the original smps PSU for an older heavy linear PSU in a wall plug from an older Netgear switch I had. I also tested it fine at 9V from my IFI supply that is powering my MicroRendu. 

 

What did you think about the mR+iFi combo powering the Netgear switch?

IME powering all network devices with a floating ac mains connection (batterypack disconnected from ac mains, floating psu or psu connected to a IT with floating secondary) is hugely beneficial for sq when listening to cloud content (ex.Tidal) where all the music bits are passing through router/wireless brigdes/network switch etc.

mR+iFi is not completely floating relatively to the safety ground (unless connected to a floating IT), but the combo should be close enough to make a very noticable difference IMO.

 

BTW. If you are interested. Here is an idea for a grounding experiment that I will perform as soon as the AQVOX switch and all the parts have arrived! :)

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, m5sime said:

 

Hi - I have not been able (nor will I easily) to use a battery pack for the router etc. I am doing testing today. My main focus is to evaluate the signal chain between my Rendu and Sonos streamer. The fact they sound so close to one another just means that something isn't right.. Whether its the resolving ability of my amp. But for sure.. With the difference this small, whats the point of Mac + Roon + IFI + Rendu vs plain old Sonos ZP80. 

 

I love to tweak, and willing to try things. But I evaluate on value for money and right now the Rendu chain isn't earning its keep. Which is odd! The main reason I would keep it is for streaming hires and also MQA.

 

I will try the IFI vs linear walmart 12v PSU for the switch. I will try the grounding cable (only to mains ground). I will try ethernet switch vs internet router (ethernet ports on each).. 

 

I have torn apart my HiFi install and brought my Mac mini to the same system removing the mains ethernet power line adapters from the signal chain.. Good experiment day and evening..

 

If you are not able to use batter power I highly recommend you to try a floating bench style safety psu. It do not need to be expensive if you just find a truly floating one. IME it can even beat battery power and I beleive a plausible explanation is built up static electricity since the battery is still connected to both ac mains and the powered device while charging. SMPS is not either the root of all evil. I recently bought this cheapeo Gophert CPS-3205 II chinease safety style SMPS https://www.banggood.com/GOPHERT-CPS-3205-0-32V-0-5A-Portable-Adjustable-DC-Power-Supply-110V220V-p-934530.html for my low budget setup and it actually performed better powering my Oehlbach DAC than a batterypack, especially after making a DIY star quad DC cable for it (by JS recommendations on the DC cable thread).

 

A good way to quickly find out possible improvements in a setup is to draw a system typology and share it with others here on CA. You are welcome to share it on my thread if you want. There many others followers that are very knowledgable and helpful that could give you tips and trix where to start looking for ground loops, leakage loops and other improvements. I love tweaks as well! It can be a pain to deal with possible ground loops/leakage loops, so the best thing one can do is to actually enjoy the road of experiments while heading there. It is a great learning path and actually great fun if you start enjoying it! :)

 

Good luck and do not forget to share your impressions down that rabbit hole! :) 

 

 

 

 

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Here is my first short review of the AQVOX switch which I got a couple of hours ago. There will be more coming! ?

 

Hmm. I tried to remove that last link since I shared the wrong post...but I couldn't do it! ?

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

@Confused

Sorry to hear that the AQVOX switch did'nt do it for you, but glad to hear that Aqvox take good care of their costumers. For me the AQVOX switch was a really great improvement, but I guess that highly depends on the setup. I am listening to Tidal streaming only and are using a wireless bridge in front of the battery powered AQVOX switch. The AQVOX is also grounded to a Entreq Minimus (now the unused ports are grounded as well). It made so much of a difference that it was the main reason (together with the LightningDS 5.0 beta 2 release) for me to change my beloved Pioneer U-05 to a Mytek Brooklyn, send my Fostex TH900 for a balanced rewiring and go all in with a fully unlocked MQA.

 

Good luck with the JCAT adventure! I hope it will work better for you. ?

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
3 hours ago, Tecnik1 said:

Hi Cornan you state. The AQVOX is also grounded to a Entreq Minimus (now the unused ports are grounded as well).

Please clarify what I think you said, as I understand what your saying is that you have the Aqvox grounded with the grounding post at the back to the Minimum plus the unused ports using a RJ45 correct to the minimum as well?

Im currently using the Aqvox as well grounding the the rear pin to a silver minimus and was thinking of doing the same as you but was afraid of causing the switch problems.

 

 

 

Hi Tecnik1! ?

I have actually removed the wires from my RJ45 GND plugs since it sounded better that way. Here it how it looks right now.

 

IMG_6027.thumb.JPG.95aac2c949714ad02d80f80aa7b74ea2.JPG

I also use two side-by-side silver grounding wires to my Aqvox switch.

 

IMG_6074.thumb.JPG.22037b9c7d8d6be7ee07b38190cd0514.JPGIMG_6075.thumb.JPG.cc2b0bdd62289d581ef1ce02f8eff781.JPG

Other suggestion for best sound from the Aqvox switch is to use RJ45 socket no 1 for input and 8 for output due to QoS and to power it with a battery pack with charger disconnected from AC mains (sounds better than Aqvox own PSU whatever Aqvox say).

 

 

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  • 5 months later...
1 hour ago, plissken said:

I'd put my Cisco Catalyst 4948 up against that AQVOX any day of the week.

 

The AQVOX is a pig with lipstick. It's a POS D-link for pete's sake.

 

The chans of AQVOX to pass your test is less than if Lajka suddenly returns from outer space. Who with a sane mind would ever send you one?

 

 

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