DAC directly connected to Speakers - Set-Up Advice Please

[Audio_ELF]

Used them consitently from nearly every brand for over 40 yrs. Every insertion wears the tip spring. Locking XLR is a far superior connection.

 

Wasnt looking at this from an SQ standpoint but a reliability position. Sorry if that wasnt clear.

Over 1,000's if not 10,000s insertions of course!

[sauerball]

How about hanging Naim for waisting audiophile money sponsoring Bentley GT3 racing?

 

Ha, got that email and thought "what?".

[One and a half]

Don't the KRK have a Neutrix combined XLR/TRS connector.

 

The KRK does have a connector that accepts 1/4in TRS or an XLR Male connector, true.

[One and a half]

Used them consitently from nearly every brand for over 40 yrs. Every insertion wears the tip spring. Locking XLR is a far superior connection.

 

Wasnt looking at this from an SQ standpoint but a reliability position. Sorry if that wasnt clear.

 

Ah OK. This raises another issue though, is that there is a limit on the number of connection/disconnection cycles for connectors, whether they are TRS, XLR, RCA, AC plugs, no matter the pedigree.

 

Interesting conversation on the USB mini connector with its problems.

[dc2bluelight]

My opinion is to skip the TRS wherever possible......XLR and RCA offer more contact surface area.

Saying one an XLR is better than a TRS is a little like saying pens are better than pencils. That might be true sometimes, but you have to also consider the application and the quality of the instrument. A pen might make a clean permanent line, but they don't work in cold weather.

 

Each connector has advantages over the other, and both can and do provide solid, reliable connections. You also have to consider the quality of the product. There are cheap XLRs that are really bad, have cheap contact plating etc., and there are Neutrik TRS connectors, even some TRS systems that lock.

 

It's probably better to examine the application and the connector before condemning a TRS, especially in favor of an RCA, a truly horrific low-cost design, never intended for repeated connect/disconnect cycles, only made acceptable by a lot of refinement, and a connector never used in Pro audio. And yet, the RCA is the most common audio connector in the world...fundamentally because it's cheap, not because it's a great connector.

 

One note on contact surface area...that's far from the whole story. More important is contact pressure per unit area and plating material and thickness. It's a whole discussion. But one contact of a TRS beats the surface area of the entire XLR and RCA combined: the Sleeve.

 

As with most things, it just ain't that simple.

[dc2bluelight]

Ah OK. This raises another issue though, is that there is a limit on the number of connection/disconnection cycles for connectors, whether they are TRS, XLR, RCA, AC plugs, no matter the pedigree.

But "pedigree" does matter. Repeated connection cycles cause wear, and if the surface plating is soft and thin, the plating will be worn off quickly. If it's thicker or harder, the useful life can be extended by thousands of cycles. Contact pressure, the single biggest factor in reliable connection, also wears plating faster. You can wear out a cheap XLR in a few months of heavy use, but a high quality unit could last decades.

 

Connectors were each designed for a purpose, regardless of how we use them today. And those designs all had connection cycles as a primary design factor. As I mentioned in the last post, RCA connectors were never intended for repeated connection cycles. The entire design was targeted at a cheap way to disconnect something for service. Cheap won out, and now its everywhere. TRS was originally designed for heavily repeated connection cycles in telephone switchboards, far more cycles than the others mentioned. When James Cannon designed the X connector (and subsequent XL and XLR), it was for microphones, and was designed to be hot-plugged safely by connecting pin 1 first, but it was never meant for a patch bay, so fewer cycles than the TRS. So again, quality of the connector and design are huge life cycle factors.

 

AC plugs fall out of the discussion because of the voltages, currents, and materials used. Yes, they can wear out, but their application is entirely different.

[dc2bluelight]

...and proceeding to bludgeon the equine to its demise...

 

Checking the Neutrik data sheets, all XLR cable and panel connectors, regardless of type or plating, have a lifetime rating of >1000 cycles. Their TRS plugs are also rated at >1000, again, regardless of design or plating. However, the lowly TRS jacks, all styles, are rated at >10,000 cycles.

 

Oh yeah, Switchcraft...not as much data, but their 112 thru 114 series enclosed TRS jacks are rated at 10,000 cycles too. Their XLRs and RCAs are not rated.

[mayhem13]

Saying one an XLR is better than a TRS is a little like saying pens are better than pencils. That might be true sometimes, but you have to also consider the application and the quality of the instrument. A pen might make a clean permanent line, but they don't work in cold weather.

 

Each connector has advantages over the other, and both can and do provide solid, reliable connections. You also have to consider the quality of the product. There are cheap XLRs that are really bad, have cheap contact plating etc., and there are Neutrik TRS connectors, even some TRS systems that lock.

 

It's probably better to examine the application and the connector before condemning a TRS, especially in favor of an RCA, a truly horrific low-cost design, never intended for repeated connect/disconnect cycles, only made acceptable by a lot of refinement, and a connector never used in Pro audio. And yet, the RCA is the most common audio connector in the world...fundamentally because it's cheap, not because it's a great connector.

 

One note on contact surface area...that's far from the whole story. More important is contact pressure per unit area and plating material and thickness. It's a whole discussion. But one contact of a TRS beats the surface area of the entire XLR and RCA combined: the Sleeve.

 

As with most things, it just ain't that simple.

 

Right......it's not that simple......but in the case of the KRK monitor, the 'socket' is the area of concern......and almost always is the problem. While the surface of the TRS sleeve might be large, the contact point within a socket isn' large.....or springs are susceptible to both memory and wear. As a real world, working professional in the industry for many years, I can count on one hand the amount of XLR panel sockets I replaced. As to TRS, the devices that used them 'designed' for multiple insertions as you suggest ( amplifiers, direct boxes, effects, patch bays, etc).......constant cleaning and replacing.

 

And RCA's......yes, the worst of the interconnects......but not really practical to replace in the case of the OP which was the intended recipient of my advice.

 

Hard eyes only see the trees while soft eyes see the entire forest, and your horse whose apparently a victim of your unwarranted cruelty.

[dc2bluelight]

Right......it's not that simple......but in the case of the KRK monitor, the 'socket' is the area of concern......and almost always is the problem. While the surface of the TRS sleeve might be large, the contact point within a socket isn' large.....or springs are susceptible to both memory and wear.

The socket is a Neutrik, but it doesn't matter, TRS sockets are all rated 10X more cycles than the plugs, per manufacturer's data.

As a real world, working professional in the industry for many years, I can count on one hand the amount of XLR panel sockets I replaced. As to TRS, the devices that used them 'designed' for multiple insertions as you suggest ( amplifiers, direct boxes, effects, patch bays, etc).......constant cleaning and replacing.

I guess it depends on what part of the industry we've each worked in. The need for cleaning isn't the same as a failure, though. All contacts eventually require cleaning. A patch bay doesn't use a TRS, but rather a variant, usually unplated brass on both jack and plug; a system designed for telephone use where there's a DC bias present capable of burning through oxidation. Or it's the "Bantam" system (TT for "Tiny Telephone"), which has density as it's strength, reliability as its weakness. Both are actually products misapplied to studio audio, but there never was a good alternative patch bay system, except perhaps those XLR-based mic patch bay systems which don't fit into consoles. In the case of the patch bay, the need for flexibility won over reliability...but it's technically the wrong connector for the application. However, again, those aren't the TRS we're talking about, which were designed for non-telephone audio. And while you can fit an audio TRS into a telephone-style patch bay, that will spring the jack, which will then have reduced contact pressure and eventually need early replacement.

And RCA's......yes, the worst of the interconnects......but not really practical to replace in the case of the OP which was the intended recipient of my advice.

I don't recall anyone suggesting a connector be replaced, but there was a connector choice, as I think the KRK jack is an XLR/TRS combo, and the TRS took a pretty bad rap. I'm not saying it's the better choice, it looks more even, but the jack, if a quality product, may have longer life than an XLR.

Hard eyes only see the trees while soft eyes see the entire forest, and your horse whose apparently a victim of your unwarranted cruelty.

The truth sometimes has a few casualties in its wake.

[JFraser]

So, my Unbalanced Emotiva Control Freak arrived today. It is fantastic, even if the postage of the item to the UK (from the US) did cost me more than 1.5 times the cost of the product itself

 

Just waiting for my Auralex MoPADs to arrive now!

 

[VXT8s]

So what was the final solution and how well did that work for you? I just acquired a pair of VXT8's and the interface that came with it was not compatible with my OSX but luckily have a rPAC laying around. Can someone give me a synopsis of the best solution of connecting the RCA outs to XLR ins.

Does just a RCA to XLR cabling suffice?

[wgscott]

Surreal.

 

[esldude]

So what was the final solution and how well did that work for you? I just acquired a pair of VXT8's and the interface that came with it was not compatible with my OSX but luckily have a rPAC laying around. Can someone give me a synopsis of the best solution of connecting the RCA outs to XLR ins.

Does just a RCA to XLR cabling suffice?

 

An RCA to XLR cable is probably best. Will not put a strain on the RCA plug like an XLR adapter would.

 

Second best in my opinion would be RCA to male XLR adapter combined with XLR cable. That way if you later get a DAC with balanced out you have the cable already.

 

Sometimes when you run RCA all the way and have the RCA to XLR adapter at the speaker end you get hum pickup.

 

If the cable run is not far I would just get the cable. Monoprice makes some that cost little more than the adapter. Like this:

 

10ft Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male 16AWG Cable (Gold Plated) - Monoprice.com

 

You can get better cable like Belden or Canare as well.

[orgel]

If the cable run is not far I would just get the cable. Monoprice makes some that cost little more than the adapter. Like this:

 

10ft Premier Series XLR Male to RCA Male 16AWG Cable (Gold Plated) - Monoprice.com

 

You can get better cable like Belden or Canare as well.

 

+1 on the Monoprice RCA-to-XLR cables. I use these in my office setup, and they're fine. If you think you want something fancier, you can just go ahead and get the Monoprice ones and then take your time deciding which fancier cables to buy.

 

I recently bought some Monoprice XLR cables so I could have something to use quickly while I was waiting for "better" ones to arrive from Redco (Mogami/Neutrik). After I got the Redco's, I really couldn't swear that they were better (either build quality or sound quality) than the Monoprice ones.

 

My $0.02.

 

--David

[VXT8s]

wow thanks y'all! I ordered a pair of Kimber KC1's today off eBay

[VXT8s]

Sorry if this is the wrong thread but how would you recommend these back switches be set?

[esldude]

That will depend on associated equipment, your room, and your preference in sound balance. Not something you can say is right or wrong for these settings.

 

LF is for adjusting the low end. More might be better, but one or the other will work for the spot you place them in the room. It matters too how much low end you like.

 

HF settings are probably mostly your preference. You might adjust them for varying program material too. A bit too much treble, drop it a bit. Too little, leave it at +1 db.

 

Lift and gnd will depend on whether or not you get hum from upstream. Just try it and see. I would lean toward gnd unless there is hum. Sometimes lifting the ground will reduce hum. You may not need it lifted.

 

System level will depend on output voltage from your pre-amp or other source and how loud you want to play music.