Lampizator questions

[bmoura]

Yes, that's correct.

 

I was impressed by all I'd read about Lukasz's unique approach to DSD and the stellar results. Then when JRiver announced the ability to upconvert everything to DSD128 in real time, it seemed like a match made in heaven. Plus I was able to save on the Lampi purchase by leaving out the PCM - which I didn't want. To that, I added in audioPhil's Audiophile Optimizer for Windows Server 2012.

 

I can't believe how good it sounds.

 

 

So it's basically a Level 4 unit without the PCM module. After hearing the Big 7 at The Show, the DSD only Lampi would be interesting to hear. What did it run price wise?

[k6davis]

So it's basically a Level 4 unit without the PCM module. After hearing the Big 7 at The Show, the DSD only Lampi would be interesting to hear. What did it run price wise?

 

I got mine optioned out with balanced output, volume control, Duelund caps - the last two of which cost a bit more with balanced output. On the other hand, I saved a bit by foregoing PCM, which I don't use anyway. Better still, Lampizator had a sale that offered me a significant discount at the time.

 

It normally sells for 2490 Euro, which equals 3369.88 USD, plus options.

 

LampizatOr DSD DAC

 

Now, they also offer a lower cost model that apparently retains a lot of the goodness. A DSD only version of it sells for 1400 Euro, which equals 1894.71 USD, plus options.

 

NEW ! Amber Lampi DAC DSD with tube PSU and tube output

Amber Order Form (with pricelist) Prices do not include European VAT

[matthias]

I'd be interested in how much is gained beyond DSD128, particularly when upsampling lower resolution content vs (the tiny amount of) native DSD256 or DSD512.

I'm not at all saying there wouldn't be an improvement, or that I wouldn't have Lampi upgrade my unit (in a heartbeat) when the time comes. I'm just curious about how the law of diminishing returns would apply.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/exasound-e18-e20-e28-info-and-experiences-post-all-here-17190/index12.html#post325575

 

KR

Matt

[k6davis]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/exasound-e18-e20-e28-info-and-experiences-post-all-here-17190/index12.html#post325575

 

KR

Matt

 

Wow, that sounds really exciting! Thanks for sharing.

 

Whenever Lampizator (and JRiver) go beyond DSD128, I'll certainly be upgrading.

[ALRAINBOW]

My lampi will be coming to America this week .

al

[wisnon]

I wonder why the Lampizator DSD with his LPF technique does not allow to playback DSD256.

 

2014 is the year of DSD256, hopefully the next year we will have DSD512 playback...

 

Matt

 

Will the Amanero board support it?

 

I think it does on Windows ASIO:

 

 

OEM Combo384 Module - USB class 2 to I2S 32bit and DSD output Adapter

 

Sound card intended for OEM High-End Audio Applications

 

 

Combo384 USB Schematic

 

 

Supported Sample Rates

 

44.1Khz 48Khz 88.2Khz 96Khz 176.4Khz 192Khz 352.8Khz 384Khz

 

 

 

Output Format

 

 

 

I2S 32bit or DSD64,DSD128 - On Windows DSD256,DSD512 too

[matthias]

Will the Amanero board support it?

I think it does on Windows ASIO:

OEM Combo384 Module - USB class 2 to I2S 32bit and DSD output Adapter

Sound card intended for OEM High-End Audio Applications

Combo384 USB Schematic

Supported Sample Rates

44.1Khz 48Khz 88.2Khz 96Khz 176.4Khz 192Khz 352.8Khz 384Khz

Output Format

I2S 32bit or DSD64,DSD128 - On Windows DSD256,DSD512 too

 

Yes, Amanero supports DSD512 with Windows-ASIO. But does Lampi DSD?

 

Matt

[wisnon]

No, just checked. It only goes up to DSD128...limitation of the receiver chosen.

 

No worries for me as DSD128 is the sweet spot. Already the file size is horrendoes. I have a vinyl rip of a Satchmo song that takes up 448mb, ie half a gig!

[matthias]

No, just checked. It only goes up to DSD128...limitation of the receiver chosen.

No worries for me as DSD128 is the sweet spot. Already the file size is horrendoes.

 

Sweet spot for saving the files on the server, but not sweet spot for playback. With the right software you can upsample DSD128 to DSD256 or DSD512 on the fly.

 

Matt

[Hiro]

Sweet spot for saving the files on the server, but not sweet spot for playback. With the right software you can upsample DSD128 to DSD256 or DSD512 on the fly.

 

Matt

 

I'd like to hear Miska's take on this. For example Andreas Koch and Ed Meitner argue that DSD128 is indeed the sweet spot for two-level DSD recording from a technical standpoint, yet others like Professor Yamasaki, use 256 Fs.

[wisnon]

Sweet spot for saving the files on the server, but not sweet spot for playback. With the right software you can upsample DSD128 to DSD256 or DSD512 on the fly.

 

Matt

 

Upsampling DSD64 to 128 in not better than playing it native...

[seatrope]

Guys, I checked with Lukasz directly regarding DSD256+ support. He says DSD256 works with the Lampi DSD module, but you have to be on the ASIO driver, not through DoP obviously (since it exceeds the DoP wrapper size I think). I don't have my Lampi yet so can't confirm that, but I have Lukasz's email....

He said DSD512 has some glitches that he's still trying to work out, in the same email.

[seatrope]

To quote Lukasz's original email to me:

 

" to play DSD128+ asio support must be installed. Using software like foobar the plugin foo dsd_sac proxy must be installed and configured properly. Super Audio CD Decoder | Free Audio & Video software downloads at SourceForge.net

 

DSD Native mode must be selected on the foo_input_dsd proxy

 

with ASIO DSD256 works well, with DSD512 i received reports about a bit of noise on a channel so i m verifing and fixing the possible problem."

[k6davis]

Upsampling DSD64 to 128 in not better than playing it native...

 

I upsample everything, including DSD64, to DSD128, which is my limit. I'm not of the (perfectly understandable) opinion that playing everything 'native' is always best. Otherwise, I'd play my PCM files as PCM instead of upsampling them. I'd convert to an even higher DSD rate if I was able to.

 

I'm not as technical as many of you, but isn't it possible that the benefits (less invasive filtering, etc.) of playback at the higher sample rates negate any potential problems that theoretically may be introduced by the upsampling?

 

And I don't upconvert anything to a larger size and save it that way for playback. My library is much too large to make that feasible. Plus, I do like to have the original file saved in its unaltered form.

 

I believe that's one of the benefits of having a dual server configuration. My control PC handles the DSP while my audio PC runs at the lowest level possible, in hibernate mode.

[k6davis]

To quote Lukasz's original email to me:

 

" to play DSD128+ asio support must be installed. Using software like foobar the plugin foo dsd_sac proxy must be installed and configured properly. Super Audio CD Decoder | Free Audio & Video software downloads at SourceForge.net

 

DSD Native mode must be selected on the foo_input_dsd proxy

 

with ASIO DSD256 works well, with DSD512 i received reports about a bit of noise on a channel so i m verifing and fixing the possible problem."

 

That's exciting! Thanks for researching and sharing the information.

 

I haven't used foobar before. Does the setup you're describing have the ability to upsample PCM/DSD to DSD256? In real time?

[wisnon]

Upconverting PCM to DSD128 yes, but I dont share the same optimism for upsampling DSD64 to 128. I prefer all DSD native.

128 is the sweetspot…cant recall the technical justification just now.

[matthias]

Upconverting PCM to DSD128 yes, but I dont share the same optimism for upsampling DSD64 to 128. I prefer all DSD native.

128 is the sweetspot…cant recall the technical justification just now.

 

wisnon,

 

there are multiple reports on this forum that DSD upsampling is superior to native DSD, e.g. upsampling to DSD256 is better than upsampling to DSD128.

Miskas DAC, example par excellence, is optimized for DSD256 and DSD512. i am not aware of one example that upsampling to DSD128 is superior to upsampling to DSD256.

 

Matt

[k6davis]

Upconverting PCM to DSD128 yes, but I dont share the same optimism for upsampling DSD64 to 128. I prefer all DSD native.

128 is the sweetspot…cant recall the technical justification just now.

 

I'll have to listen for myself to see if I prefer DSD64 natively, but speaking theoretically, I'm definitely in favor of presenting the DAC with the signal it can decode best, even if that means upsampling.

 

"Sweetspot". So you're saying that your understanding is there are technical reasons why upsampling PCM to DSD128 is preferable to upsampling PCM to DSD256?

[Hiro]

"Sweetspot". So you're saying that your understanding is there are technical reasons why upsampling PCM to DSD128 is preferable to upsampling PCM to DSD256?

 

That appears to be the case. Take note that D/A converters built by Andreas Koch, Ed Meitner, and Ted Smith all upsample PCM to DSD128.

[wisnon]

That is my understanding too Hiro.

 

Again though, my focus on on the QUALITY of the playback than on ever higher frequencies. Following the more is better logic, why stop at DSD512, why not DSD1,000,000?

 

We know that DSD128 moves out the UHF noise to way above audible range. Not sure how/why higher freqs will add more than the compromises they bring to the table. I will defer judgement at this point, as I dont disregard what Matt and others say just yet.

 

Hiro,

 

I see you are likely to take the Hegel pluge. What is your justification for that choice. I am sure you will have an interesting viewpoint.

[Hiro]

Hiro,

 

I see you are likely to take the Hegel pluge. What is your justification for that choice. I am sure you will have an interesting viewpoint.

 

Wisnon,

 

My reasons are kinda mundane. The DAC uses a "true DSD D/A converter" (new AKM chip), it's DSD128 capable, and it's in my price range. In other words it looks like the "sweetspot" DAC for me

 

As for DSD256, I would need to learn more about its technical merits vs DSD128, and besides, at this point the choice of such DACs is rather limited.

[wisnon]

What does it cost and which AKM chip?

[Hiro]

What does it cost and which AKM chip?

 

It will retail at $1200.

I only know it will be using a DSD128-capable DAC chip from AKM, it could be AK4495S...

[elcorso]

Upconverting PCM to DSD128 yes, but I dont share the same optimism for upsampling DSD64 to 128. I prefer all DSD native.

128 is the sweetspot…cant recall the technical justification just now.

 

Wisnon, please forget the technical justification and listen, noise goes to audiophile hell forever. It's just unbelievable and outstanding. I'm not (right now) upsampling, but the few tracks I have are indescribable regarding SQ, because is the absence of (noise), only the music remains. I can't see a big business selling this as a DL, thanks of their size. But with DSD the sky is the limit.

 

Roch

[wisnon]

Wisnon, please forget the technical justification and listen, noise goes to audiophile hell forever. It's just unbelievable and outstanding. I'm not (right now) upsampling, but the few tracks I have are indescribable regarding SQ, because is the absence of (noise), only the music remains. I can't see a big business selling this as a DL, thanks of their size. But with DSD the sky is the limit.

 

Roch

 

Roch, I hear you, but on my Lampi DSD dac I hear no noise already at DSD128...just music and its an outrageous SQ...ask Bruce Brown!