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Bryston sort your act out!


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This topic has got my dander up! - The problem of availability of product, opportunity for an "audition", and an overall lack of useful information, is why posts like this one engage so many in a heated discussion.

 

I remember writing a post when I was in a "good mood", and how I enjoyed the "pursuit" of the audiophile hobby. Someone responded back as to how frustrated they were in not being able to know what the heck they were buying until they bought it, and then had to put up with "restocking fees" etc. to try not to take a total loss on the product.

 

I am frustrated by how difficult it is to get the straight dope on a product before you buy it. No other product I can think of is like that. I test drive a car before I buy it. The same experience applies for other major purchases, why cant it apply to audio? I can easily spend as much on audio as I have on my cars, and many companies expect me to do just that, sight unseen.

 

The take away from this experience is this: - don't buy the expensive stuff. Look for the "giant killers". They are out there. They don't get a ton of reviews and coverage. - The back page of Stereophile maybe. They do get talked about. Mostly in forums like these. Sometimes in the DIY section of the mega bucks audio mags. I get more satisfaction from buying from the "little guy" than the flashy megabux audio crack dealer.

 

That's were China has been making inroads. I just bought some Obbligato caps for my Maggies from China - 22uF for $25 a pop. They got here in 4 days from the day I ordered them. Out of the box - awesome!

 

Beware of those companies with super high priced stuff, that also have components at a "reasonable" price. They know the game. They figure you will be a sucker for the lower priced stuff thinking you got a deal! Screw that! - If your stuff is that good then you should be able to make a good living selling it at those prices!

 

Don't insult my intellegence!

 

Eric

 

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Hi Eric - Wow, it sounds like you've had some sour experiences with high-end audio dealers/distributors/manufactures. I can tell you that there are quite a few dealers/distributors/manufactures who are totally opposite from what you've described.

 

"The take away from this experience is this: - don't buy the expensive stuff."

 

"Beware of those companies with super high priced stuff, that also have components at a "reasonable" price."

 

My experience is not congruent with these two statements. I personally talk to companies who make stratospherically prices components and it is absolutely great sounding and engineered fabulously. Some of the great high-end companies who also make cheaper priced components are nothing like the game playing people who've experienced.

 

 

Granted I know of some companies who are exactly like you suggest, but I think everyone should be careful not to group most of them into the same category. Many of the founders of the great companies have dedicated their lives to their products and have the highest integrity.

 

Not trying to stir the pot or rain on your parade. Just trying to tell the other side of the story :~)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems AudiophileStyleStickerWhite2.0.png AudiophileStyleStickerWhite7.1.4.png

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I share your frustration about getting reliable information. Ironically, Bryston is one of the straight talking no-nonsense companies out there.

 

But I must say it is much worse in regular consumer electronics. For instance, I was looking for the CPU and memory spec of a Buffalo Quadstation earlier today. No dice from them or any major vendor thereof.

 

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Dealers and distributors don't pay the street price per box. If they did then the mythical New York hi-fi dealer wouldn't be making a single cent on the sale of the product - which I doubt.

 

But even if you take the street price, the conversion price of the untaxed $1995 is 1207.44 UK pounds. The import duty on that is 120.74 = 1328.18. Add on 15% VAT when it arrives in this country (which it is currently, lowered to help this kind of market) that is 1527.41 UK pounds. So they've added 622.59 pounds on (i.e. over half of the original cost of the product) per box for shipping, advertising, demoing, administrative costs, etc., etc.. They're on a hiding to nowhere. This does not reflect the true cost of this kind of thing. They are not going to shift boxes in the UK at this price.

 

And to get back to the original posting - Bryston are not the slave of their distributors. The company they are using is clearly creaming in profit to the detriment of the product sales - moreover if the original poster's problems in obtaining a demo are widespread, then not only are they creaming a profit they're not even distributing properly. Double the problem. Bryston need to sort their act out if they want to break into the UK market. If they don't then fine, continue as is. But don't pretend to be interested in the international market and then treat the customers like this.

 

Alcina

 

 

Alix/Voyage mpd -> Valab NOS DAC (modded) -> Linn Majic I -> B&W CM7

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Thanks Alcina, the exact point I was making with my original post, though not quite so succinctly. The actual starting price is probably somewhere around $1800. Which moves the UK markup to over £700. I have pretty much ruled out the Bryston, more because for the limitations of word length and bitrate on the USB than the overinflated price.

 

In a months time I will probably be singing the praises of a Weiss DAC 2, therefore generating more interest in the Weiss DAC. Had I actually gotten a Demo of the Bryston DAC and been able to purchase at a realistic price, I would be posting here on how delighted I was with it. This is a relatively new market with a limited number of players, particularly in the UK, surely Bryston should be happy just to break even on oversees sales just to get a good foothold.

 

To clarify "new market", I suspect not so many people had an external DAC when they where using CD's, now that computers as a source are gaining ground an external DAC is pretty much essential. More manufacturers will move in to the market or add to existing lines.

 

I appreciate that this forum has considerable influence on peoples buying decisions and for this reason I have tried to be fair and balanced. This is why I posted a copy of my emails to Bryston and it's UK distributor and their responses. I have no axe to grind with Bryston, on the contrary they have often been on my shortlist when buying new components, they manufacture top notch gear and offer superb after sales support. I just feel on this occasion they have been let down by their supply chain.

 

Are all audiophiles obsessive compulsives or is this just a Stereo Type? Yorkshire UK

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"So they've added 622.59 pounds on".

 

Uhh, wait, the dealer gets a chunk too. Also, we left out two expenses. First, Bryston must make a second version, or design a switchable version, for EU voltage. Second, it must get EU certification. If Bryston structures its pricing so that import markets bear the full charge for these expenses, then that will hurt the UK buyer.

 

I'm not defending the particular margins of the UK Bryston distributor. But I will point out that the standard price on UK goods from small US high end firms has been essentially the same in pounds as in dollars--and that was with the pound at $1.75 to $2.00 for a number of years.

 

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"surely Bryston should be happy just to break even on oversees sales just to get a good foothold."

 

I'm not sure why one would assume this. It's perfectly reasonable for a small successful company like Bryston to want to make the same profit on each unit no matter where sold. And often, firms like Bryston are aiming for slow, steady, sustainable growth, rather than selling as many units as they can, for good reason, and the history of high end shows.

 

From the distributor's point of view, higher margin may also make a lot more sense--particularly since Bryston tends to be underpriced relative to market (Chris seems to rate it a bargain relative to the Berkeley, 2.5 times more expensive Berkeley.)

 

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I work in manufacturing, and while we make a profit on most of our products, under certain circumstances, on some products we settle for a break even price. We all get paid and the company stays afloat, which is better than many in the current economic climate.

As for "rate it a bargain relative to the Berkeley, 2.5 times more expensive Berkeley" if the www did not exist and I could not compare US UK prices, based on review the Bryston would appear to be good value. Answer me this, why is it the Weiss Minerva, built in Europe, shipped to the US, subject to the same shipping, import, certification, distribution costs etc only exhibits a 20% price difference between US and UK markets as opposed to Brystons 42%.

 

"Usernaim250 this is your third post in defence of Bryston, i do not which to appear impertinent but do you have a vested interest?

 

Are all audiophiles obsessive compulsives or is this just a Stereo Type? Yorkshire UK

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I have no interest in Bryston or any other company and have never owned Bryston gear.

 

You seem to be chasing some kind of evil lurking everywhere. Weiss clearly has a different business plan than Bryston. As to specifics for Weiss, ask him. It is ironic you single out the Minerva which costs nearly double the identical piece (DAC2) based on a nicer faceplate and--this is the crucial part--high end distribution and pricing, which looks to be different than the pro audio model of pricing.

 

I can't say if it's right or wrong, but for years the standard pricing on goods like Audio Research, VPI, Krell, Magnepan, etc.--in the UK--is to have roughly the same nominal price in dollars as pounds. Maybe they are all evil, or maybe that's just what it costs to import luxury goods and make a reasonable profit, or maybe that's just what the market will bear (which is always the limit on pricing). I don't really know, and of course "reasonable" is subjective, but it's not like Bryston's distributor is alone.

 

Finally, consider that while a UK/EU maker could easily have its biggest market as the US, few US makers will have the UK as their biggest market (Shahinian might be the only one). So, from the standpoint of an EU company, one could price at the cost for the US market and consider home distribution as the "extra cost." For a US maker that would be silly.

 

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Well we have moved one step closer to inexpensive quality audio reproduction, a bit perfect convenient transport (the mac/PC). Like most audiophiles I would love to find the giant killers, bits of inexpensive kit that not just give excellent value but actually equal or surpass the big boys. I do not think we are there yet, so unfortunatley I have to dig deep in to my pockets to improve on what I already have. At this sector of the market each individual who is buying a new DAC will carefully consider which piece of kit is going to offer them the best bang for buck. On this occasion, for me as an individual in the UK this is not the Bryston, others will feel differently. In a nutshell we can argue all day but in the end the market will decide.

 

 

Are all audiophiles obsessive compulsives or is this just a Stereo Type? Yorkshire UK

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I think you really have two different isssues, neither of which are Bryston's fault.

 

Gripe 1 - Pricing: as others have said, long has it been pretty standard to substitute pounds for dollars when importing. And it's not just US companies that are guilty of this - look at some UK and US prices for Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc. products. Thus is a symptom of the Market place. Bryston and PMC between them will set a price where their product competes. Yes it's an artificial thing, but happens in all consumer industries. Unfortunately only by direct purchasing - which most companies don't allow - will it be changed. To think PMC is creaming off profit is likely to be wrong. PMC and Brtyston will set the price together and Bryston will get a proportion of the extra. I do hate when companies use the old currency rate fluctuations as an excuse for price rises though. They put the price UP when rate cahnges from $2:£1 to $1.30:£1 but they didn't drop when it improved to $1.60:£1 do they. But all companies are the same. To point the finger at Bryston is closed minded and points to an agenda. It's not really a gripe to keel at Bryston - it's a gripe about British marketplace generally.

 

Gripe 2 - dealers and demos: yes this is a problem. But first and foremost it's bad customer service from your dealer, not from PMC. If several dealers were the same then you can rightly get shorty at PMC but seams like more isolated case - contacting te distributor in this case seams to have proved the point.

 

So yes - valid gripes, but NOT realy towards Bryston IMO.

Eloise

 

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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My previous post was to be my last on the subject but.........

 

I Take your point that this is a UK market problem, but I object "To point the finger at Bryston is closed minded and points to an agenda" . Did you read my earlier post? " I have no axe to grind with Bryston, on the contrary they have often been on my shortlist when buying new components, they manufacture top notch gear and offer superb after sales support". I am an end user and have no association to any audio manufacturer and have no agenda, I was not "pointing a finger", It was Bryston I was looking to purchase and therefore that is to whom my questions where directed. I have at no time accused Bryston or PMC of profiteering I simply asked for an explanation and then posted the explanation when I received it. I think the thread continued because this disparity in pricing seemed to be in excess of what we usually see in the UK.

 

I allowed PMC to explain why I had not received a demo, their explanation was very fair and I said as such, I have posted no more comments regarding the demo problem after the explanation was received. I hope that the staff at the dealers get a rite royal bollocking (good telling off for non Brits).

 

Are all audiophiles obsessive compulsives or is this just a Stereo Type? Yorkshire UK

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Sorry you are right that your posts didn't show a biase against Bryston specifically. I just was meaning that the whole economic system is to blame.

 

Eloise

 

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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