Merging HAPI as ASIO output device

[Bunpei]

Has anyone experienced Merging HAPI?

 

Merging Technologies | Hapi Mic Pre & AD/DA Converter with RAVENNA AES67

[tailspn]

Has anyone experienced Merging HAPI?

 

Sure, it's s two card Horus.

[tailspn]

Has anyone experienced Merging HAPI?

 

Having said that, I didn't focus on the ASIO part of your question. I use it (Horus) with Ravenna Masscore, not ASIO, but I know two people who do. Works just fine with Pyramix software, and I've reported a repost of someone who ran it with JRiver over ASIO.

[Bunpei]

Hi, tailspn!

 

Thank you very much for your immediate replies with rich information!

I hope HAPI retains high quality components such as power supplies, master clocks as well.

 

I'm afraid that their ASIO driver of current version does not support DSD256 play/recording.

 

Bunpei

[One and a half]

Hi, tailspn!

 

Thank you very much for your immediate replies with rich information!

I hope HAPI retains high quality components such as power supplies, master clocks as well.

 

I'm afraid that their ASIO driver of current version does not support DSD256 play/recording.

 

Bunpei

 

Sorry to bump an old thread, does the HAPI support DSD256 over ASIO? This would be great to interface to HQPlayer.

[bibo01]

Sorry to bump an old thread, does the HAPI support DSD256 over ASIO? This would be great to interface to HQPlayer.

 

It does. It is great to interface with HQPlayer.

[One and a half]

It does. It is great to interface with HQPlayer.

 

Ahhh, ok. To be sure, if I play a file in HQPlayer, the "sound card" settings would be the 'ASIO' Ravenna AES67 driver. The Ravenna driver works out where on the network the desired HAPI is and sends the data accordingly. If the HAPI has the DSD D/A card optiona board, the analog out can be connected directly to the DAC as decoded DSD.

 

This would also apply to Jriver, so it can write to the same Ravenna driver, obviously not at the same time.

[One and a half]

I was reading the MT discovery software, and rather bewildered about the detail in setting up a Dell managed switch. Reading between the lines, the Dell's the only switch that works on a Ravenna network? It's possible to wire in direct from the PC to the HAPI and circumvent the use of the Dell switch.

May have to find another solution to transmitting DSD, like USB.

[bibo01]

I was reading the MT discovery software, and rather bewildered about the detail in setting up a Dell managed switch. Reading between the lines, the Dell's the only switch that works on a Ravenna network? It's possible to wire in direct from the PC to the HAPI and circumvent the use of the Dell switch.

May have to find another solution to transmitting DSD, like USB.

 

Yes, it is possible to wire in direct from PC to Hapi through Bonjour protocol.

It is part of Merging driver but, if you use Win Server, you need to install it separately.

[bibo01]

An internal picture of HAPI with both modules AD8DP and DA8P.:

 

[Keith_W]

I was reading the MT discovery software, and rather bewildered about the detail in setting up a Dell managed switch. Reading between the lines, the Dell's the only switch that works on a Ravenna network? It's possible to wire in direct from the PC to the HAPI and circumvent the use of the Dell switch.

May have to find another solution to transmitting DSD, like USB.

 

Hello 1 1/2, are you in Brisbane? If so, I was recently put in contact with a recording engineer who is also in Brisbane, who uses a Merging Hapi in his home system.

 

I don't own a Hapi, I own a NADAC MC-8.

 

To answer your questions:

 

1. You do not have to use a Dell managed switch. You can use any managed switch. It just so happens that Merging recommends the Dell and has instructions on how to use it.

 

2. Yes, you can wire your PC directly to the Hapi and therefore avoid having to use a managed switch. This is how my NADAC is connected to my PC. There is a single network cable that runs from PC to NADAC, and that's it.

 

3. As far as I am aware, the Hapi does not have a USB input. The NADAC definitely does not.

[Bunpei]

2. Yes, you can wire your PC directly to the Hapi and therefore avoid having to use a managed switch. This is how my NADAC is connected to my PC. There is a single network cable that runs from PC to NADAC, and that's it.

 

I borrowed a HAPI connected to a notebook-type PC with Windows 7 (on which Pyramix was installed) from my friend for a couple of days just two weeks ago. A simple Ethernet LAN cable was used for the HAPI-PC connection. I think this type of wiring is called as a "back-to-back connection".

 

By the way, is there any good forum for Pyramix users those who handle mainly DSD256 sources?

I want to know whether a simple importing method for DSD256 sources recorded outside Pyramix into a Pyramix project is available or not. The reason why I ask this is that we want to use Pyramix software for editing files recorded by recorders other than HAPI.

[Keith_W]

By the way, is there any good forum for Pyramix users those who handle mainly DSD256 sources?

I want to know whether a simple importing method for DSD256 sources recorded outside Pyramix into a Pyramix project is available or not. The reason why I ask this is that we want to use Pyramix software for editing files recorded by recorders other than HAPI.

 

Yes. Try Merging's own forum: Merging Technologies • Index page

[Bunpei]

Yes. Try Merging's own forum: Merging Technologies • Index page

 

The forum is just the one I wanted to read. Thank you very much! I have been browsing through some threads now.

 

By the way, I got such an impression that HAPI/Horus is a kind of equipment for an industrial use rather than for an audiophile use.

[Keith_W]

By the way, I got such an impression that HAPI/Horus is a kind of equipment for an industrial use rather than for an audiophile use.

 

I don't blame you for having that impression. The NADAC (marketed by Merging for audiophile use) is essentially a Hapi but with these differences:

 

- nicer casework

- firmware more adapted for consumer use rather than pro use

- remote control app

- LESS output gain (max 18dBu rather than 24dBu)

- XLR and RCA connectors, rather than D-sub

- not able to fit option cards

- costs more

 

I have looked inside my NADAC. This is what I see:

 

- power supply is an SMPS. Not a toroidal transformer that you would normally see in DAC's of this price.

- There are three Sabre 9008S DAC chips, each capable of 8 channels. Not the 9018S, they are using the lower end model.

- The analog and digital sections are on the same board, and use the same power supply.

- The clock is soldered on the motherboard. It is not an OCXO.

- Analog output is via op-amps.

- There seems to be a lot of empty space in there. They could have made it more compact. Or they could have added some of the other features that you would typically find in audiophile DAC's at this price point.

 

As you can see, there are zero enhancements which actually enhance the audio output and most of the features you pay for in the NADAC are either negatives (lower output gain, costs more, no option cards) or convenience features. And they left out the most important convenience feature of all - no IR remote.

 

I bought a NADAC, but if I were to do it again I would buy a Hapi.

 

In the end, the NADAC actually sounds quite good. But one wonders if it would sound even better if they had actually paid attention to what the competition is doing, rather than just transplant a pro product into a consumer product and sell it for more. Since that is all that it is, I would just save your money and buy a Hapi. It is cheaper, more versatile, and most likely sounds the same - I have not compared them back to back, but Merging's own website says that they can "only state what is measurable" and not comment on subjective sound quality.

[One and a half]

I don't blame you for having that impression. The NADAC (marketed by Merging for audiophile use) is essentially a Hapi but with these differences:

 

- nicer casework

- firmware more adapted for consumer use rather than pro use

- remote control app

- LESS output gain (max 18dBu rather than 24dBu)

- XLR and RCA connectors, rather than D-sub

- not able to fit option cards

- costs more

 

I have looked inside my NADAC. This is what I see:

 

- power supply is an SMPS. Not a toroidal transformer that you would normally see in DAC's of this price.

- There are three Sabre 9008S DAC chips, each capable of 8 channels. Not the 9018S, they are using the lower end model.

- The analog and digital sections are on the same board, and use the same power supply.

- The clock is soldered on the motherboard. It is not an OCXO.

- Analog output is via op-amps.

- There seems to be a lot of empty space in there. They could have made it more compact. Or they could have added some of the other features that you would typically find in audiophile DAC's at this price point.

 

As you can see, there are zero enhancements which actually enhance the audio output and most of the features you pay for in the NADAC are either negatives (lower output gain, costs more, no option cards) or convenience features. And they left out the most important convenience feature of all - no IR remote.

 

I bought a NADAC, but if I were to do it again I would buy a Hapi.

 

In the end, the NADAC actually sounds quite good. But one wonders if it would sound even better if they had actually paid attention to what the competition is doing, rather than just transplant a pro product into a consumer product and sell it for more. Since that is all that it is, I would just save your money and buy a Hapi. It is cheaper, more versatile, and most likely sounds the same - I have not compared them back to back, but Merging's own website says that they can "only state what is measurable" and not comment on subjective sound quality.

 

Thanks Keith for this valuable information. One other advantage of the HAPI is there are another 6 channels which can be used if Ch1-2 fail for some reason.

It's good to know that a direct Ethernet connection is possible, without resorting to configuring managed switches which I'm not comfortable with at all.

 

The DB25 connections are a problem in that it creates more connections than necessary, but realise that 12 channels + of XLR connectors take up a lot of room. From what I have seen from pro audio gear, the breakout cables are usually Canare, Monoprice cable itself, which for short runs are not that critical, is balanced anyway, and the connectors themselves are Neutrik which are audiophile use and of good quality. Where I would plan the HAPI, the cable length is about 1.2m max.

[bibo01]

It's worth pointing out that there is another difference between Hapi and NADAC which its due to slightly different firmware.

On a 8ch NADAC it is possible to employ all internal 8 converters in 2ch mode for stereo playback for a slight increase in S/N ratio. In software one sets output Ch1-3-5-7 -> Ch1 and Ch2-4-6-8 ->Ch2.

On a Hapi, although theoretically possible, Merging has blocked this feature - I suppose to differentiate the two products.

This is a shame because it leaves a user with two options: either to playback stereo signal using 2 converters instead of the possible internal 8 for a slight decrease in quality, or to process a stereo signal as 8ch, which increases a lot cpu usage, and then hard-wire Hapi output with a 8ch->2ch device like this:

 

 

PS: I believe that Hapi uses different D/A chips...ES9016 perhaps

[One and a half]

It's worth pointing out that there is another difference between Hapi and NADAC which its due to slightly different firmware.

On a 8ch NADAC it is possible to employ all internal 8 converters in 2ch mode for stereo playback for a slight increase in S/N ratio. In software one sets output Ch1-3-5-7 -> Ch1 and Ch2-4-6-8 ->Ch2.

On a Hapi, although theoretically possible, Merging has blocked this feature - I suppose to differentiate the two products.

This is a shame because it leaves a user with two options: either to playback stereo signal using 2 converters instead of the possible internal 8 for a slight decrease in quality, or to process a stereo signal as 8ch, which increases a lot cpu usage, and then hard-wire Hapi output with a 8ch->2ch device like this:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29378[/ATTACH]

 

PS: I believe that Hapi uses different D/A chips...ES9016 perhaps

 

Fascinating, great information!

[Astralark]

I don't blame you for having that impression. The NADAC (marketed by Merging for audiophile use) is essentially a Hapi but with these differences:

 

- nicer casework

- firmware more adapted for consumer use rather than pro use

- remote control app

- LESS output gain (max 18dBu rather than 24dBu)

- XLR and RCA connectors, rather than D-sub

- not able to fit option cards

- costs more

 

I have looked inside my NADAC. This is what I see:

 

- power supply is an SMPS. Not a toroidal transformer that you would normally see in DAC's of this price.

- There are three Sabre 9008S DAC chips, each capable of 8 channels. Not the 9018S, they are using the lower end model.

- The analog and digital sections are on the same board, and use the same power supply.

- The clock is soldered on the motherboard. It is not an OCXO.

- Analog output is via op-amps.

- There seems to be a lot of empty space in there. They could have made it more compact. Or they could have added some of the other features that you would typically find in audiophile DAC's at this price point.

 

As you can see, there are zero enhancements which actually enhance the audio output and most of the features you pay for in the NADAC are either negatives (lower output gain, costs more, no option cards) or convenience features. And they left out the most important convenience feature of all - no IR remote.

 

I bought a NADAC, but if I were to do it again I would buy a Hapi.

 

In the end, the NADAC actually sounds quite good. But one wonders if it would sound even better if they had actually paid attention to what the competition is doing, rather than just transplant a pro product into a consumer product and sell it for more. Since that is all that it is, I would just save your money and buy a Hapi. It is cheaper, more versatile, and most likely sounds the same - I have not compared them back to back, but Merging's own website says that they can "only state what is measurable" and not comment on subjective sound quality.

 

Prismsound is doing the same thing now. They announced Callia.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[bibo01]

It's worth pointing out that there is another difference between Hapi and NADAC which its due to slightly different firmware.

On a 8ch NADAC it is possible to employ all internal 8 converters in 2ch mode for stereo playback for a slight increase in S/N ratio. In software one sets output Ch1-3-5-7 -> Ch1 and Ch2-4-6-8 ->Ch2.

On a Hapi, although theoretically possible, Merging has blocked this feature - I suppose to differentiate the two products.

This is a shame because it leaves a user with two options: either to playback stereo signal using 2 converters instead of the possible internal 8 for a slight decrease in quality, or to process a stereo signal as 8ch, which increases a lot cpu usage, and then hard-wire Hapi output with a 8ch->2ch device like this:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29378[/ATTACH]

 

PS: I believe that Hapi uses different D/A chips...ES9016 perhaps

Correction:

 

the highlighted sentence is not totally right.

If channel mapping is done before any dsp, cpu usage is not high. So it depends on music player if it has that function.

I was thinking of HQPlayer where channel mapping is done after dsp.

However, it is better supported by hardware manufacturer in driver.

[One and a half]

Prismsound is doing the same thing now. They announced Callia.

 

The Callia DAC has USB and coax inputs only and there's not an Ethernet input like the Hapi/Horus. By the 'same thing', can you elaborate a little? Hardware structure?

[Bunpei]

PS: I believe that Hapi uses different D/A chips...ES9016 perhaps

 

I confirmed that DA8P DAC board installed in HAPI uses ES9008 chip with my naked eyes.

[Bunpei]

Hi, Keith!

 

I really appreciated your deep observations on NADAC!

 

- The clock is soldered on the motherboard. It is not an OCXO.

 

May I ask you what frequency the on-board oscillator generates?

(I am a "nerd" for applying low phase noise oscillators to DIY DAC/ADC boards.)

[Kal Rubinson]

Prismsound is doing the same thing now. They announced Callia.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

In what way? It is a 2channel device.

[One and a half]

Looking at the physical layout of the da8p board, the DAC part of the HAPI as the option board. There's a connector that plugs into the system bus that communicates to and from the Ethernet side (rough description) and essentially connects with presumably buffer circuits to the ESS chip, the D to A, and from there to gain switches, isolation and then db25 as analogue outs.

I don't see on-board power supplies for the analogy out, and power is derived from an internal smps or optional 12V supply.

For the money, I would expect more hardware, especially clocks and power supplies and large filter electrolytics but they are notably absent.

That the channels can't be mixed to provide a lower noise floor is a detraction, that other 2CH dacs have built in as standard.

Still not convinced that routable or direct Ethernet has matured enough to be the silver bullet, where usb although it's transmission can be doctored to a workable audio solution, although cumbersome still provides the optimum to play DSD files from computers.