Teresa Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 These are my deleted posts from Chris Connaker's excellent article: Pono or Oh No - An Interview With Neil Young which he felt were off topic, which I firmly believe are very on topic and in defense of high resolution analog, high resolution digital and support PONO. They were responses to comments in Pono or Oh No - An Interview With Neil Young by others that needed correcting, instead of correcting those comments or deleting them Chris instead deleted by responses so here they are: ...In the pre digital days when vinyl ruled, everyone got the same product, that is a vinyl album. To make it sound awesome, you'd get a high quality hifi system, the album would keep sounding better the better your system got. Nowadays, the fragmentation is unbelievable in comparison with so many different formats and bit rates is it any wonder audiophiles are confused! I hope Pono returns us to the old model of buying an album once and for that you get the highest available sound! I'm older than the hills and lived much of my life in those pre-digital days. I just wanted to point out there were many if not more analog formats and different resolutions than the current digital ones. During the analog era I was never big on LPs, preferring instead prerecorded reel to reel tapes and audiophile cassettes. So while vinyl did rule not everyone got the same product. There were many analog formats and resolutions that lived when I was young, and I collected many of them. Some such as 78s were already dead. My first format was prerecorded 8 Track cartridges, I almost bought a 4 Track cartridge player but Muntz Stereo Tape stores had a wider selection of 8 Track tapes. There was also Quadraphonic 8 Track tapes. I later sold my 8 track player and got a Teac reel to reel deck, I didn't use it for recording I played prerecorded tapes. Prerecorded reel to reel tapes were available in 2 Track 15 IPS, 4 Track 7 1/2 IPS and 4 Track 3 3/4 IPS, the ones from audiophile labels were real time duplicated and those from commercial major labels were slow-speed and high-speed duplicated depending on the label. Also there were Quadraphonic discreet 4 track 4 channel prerecorded reel to reel tapes. Next came prerecorded cassettes, there were commercial major label cassettes as well as expensive "real time" duplicated audiophile prerecorded cassettes, some with as many as three versions to choose from (Dolby B, Dolby C and DBX). Towards the end of cassette era there were some that were Dolby S encoded. There was of course the LP you mentioned which I never seriously collected during the analog era as I stated above. The LP had commercial major label versions and the audiophile remasters. And of course the Quad formats. Also there were separate LP versions with non-compatible DBX or CX noise reduction. During the early 1970's some recordings had as many as a dozen versions to choose from in the various formats and resolutions. Of course there were other formats which I never owned, many which offered prerecorded software and some such as Elcaset which were record only. I just wanted to say it wasn't all LPs. In my opinion LPs were not the highest resolution avaliable but the 2 Track 15 IPS 10 inch prerecorded real time duplicated reel to reel tapes which cost $34.99 in the early 1970s, which would be $202.25 in today's dollars. So I would say high resolution digital is a bargain compared to the highest resolution analog of yesteryear. I also believe that Pono is more about the music store than the player. The player will always be fluid like all technology. It wont stop with the first gen player, it will keep evolving with upgrades and maybe a choice between different models at various price points, some even aimed solely for home use in your big system etc. This will happen if the music store succeeds! They should market this along the lines of 'to get awesome sound, you need Pono Music Files for your chosen playback device (ie, it will work with anything). To get even better sound than that, the best available, you need Pono Music played back through our Pono Player'! I wish everyone associated with this project the best of success and of course kudos must go to the one and only Mr Neil Young, long may he run! I agree and I too wish Neil Young and Pono the best of luck. Their success I believe means more exposure to high-resolution downloads for the masses and hopefully more great sounding music for us. Teresa, That was an interesting slice of history. Thank you for bringing back the memories. (And, in some cases, the nightmares...) Off topic comments removed. -Editor Chris, why did you remove my rebuttal to the comment “In the pre digital days when vinyl ruled, everyone got the same product, that is a vinyl album.” and yet let Captain Crunch’s original comment and Don Hills’ response stand? I offered plenty of proof in the pre-digital era that everyone didn't get the same product and that there were vastly different levels of resolution just as there is now in digital formats and now everyday people, not just the rich, can actually afford high resolution music. It took me over three hours to research to write that post and now two more hours to compile them into this post. Thank goodness I saved the original post on my hard-drive as I do need to make one correction to it in case anyone saved it for historical reasons. I was wrong, the 2 track 15 IPS prerecorded reel to reel tapes from Sonar, Ambisonic, Direct to Tape and others was not the highest resolution analog format offered to consumers, it was the Mark Levinson's 2 track 30 IPS prerecorded reel to reel tapes playable on the Mark Levinson ML-5. Very well written article questioning the need for 192/24 in Pono. Most of his sources have been discussed around here before, but he puts it all together nicely. Sound bite: Despite Pono's promise, experts pan HD audio | Internet & Media - CNET News I agree with Superdad it's not true, however I also think that article is poorly written and its conclusions are dead wrong. This quote among others from the article is sorely incorrect “In other words, yes, the CD audio format that Philips and Sony introduced in 1982 really is good enough.” Oh my, how wrong can a statement be? Almost as bad as Perfect Sound Forever. They quoted the discredited Meyer/Moran studies and the ignorant rantings of Monty Montgomery who are out to discredit high-end audio and high resolution music. Monty Montgomery is creator of the lossy Vorbis format, of course he would come down hard on lossless 24 bit high resolution PCM. You have to understand why people like this tell untruths and misuse test equipment to support their boneheaded conclusions. My article Are Ultrasonics Important? Current Theory and High Resolution Digital offers a counterpoint to the article you linked and its attempt to reduce us to mediocrity. In my experience even low resolution 8-track cartridges are more musical sounding than the very digital-sounding 16/44.1kHz format including CD. In short, were it not for 24/88.2kHz PCM and higher I would still be playing to LPs and reel to reel tapes as I don't like the so-called "digital" sound of 16/44.1kHz PCM, I find it uncomfortable and often very strident! I am praying that PONO will kill off the dreadful sounding CD format once and for all time. Here is another on topic post from a different thread Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic that was deleted because the original post by Sceptic was also deleted, I have no problem with that. However I think it also has very important information in it so present it here also. Skeptic if you honestly believe that, why your interest in PONO and 24/192kHz PCM? I agree completely with Neil Young on the more analog-like sound of 24/192, it appears you don’t. Besides extended frequency response, higher sampling rates offer faster transient response as there are more samples per second and smoother filtering as it is removed further from the audible range. Also in regards to frequency response, only the audible frequencies are limited to 20 to 24kHz or so in human beings. The inaudible frequencies are perhaps more important than the audible frequencies in how music feels. Humans respond to frequencies up to 80kHz, musical instruments have overtones up to 102.4 KHz. See There's Life Above 20 Kilohertz! A Survey of Musical Instrument Spectra to 102.4 KHz Also ultrasonic overtones are said to affect the timbre of audible frequencies downline offering more accurate rendition of the true sound of voices, instruments and the space they are performed in. Neil Young and the rest of us fully understand this, apparently you do not. I hate the strident "digital" sound of 16/44.1kHz PCM totally and completely, it is pure crap to my ears no matter what equipment is used to play it. BTW my DAC is the Teac UD-501 which plays music files up to 32 bit 384kHz PCM and 5.6MHz DSD. I support Neil Young’s crusade for higher resolution more analog-like sounding digital. I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
kumakuma Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I hate the strident "digital" sound of 16/44.1kHz PCM totally and completely, it is pure crap to my ears no matter what equipment is used to play it. BTW my DAC is the Teac UD-501 which plays music files up to 32 bit 384kHz PCM and 5.6MHz DSD. I have been meaning to ask you this for awhile. Have you tried using something like JRiver to convert Redbook files to DSD on the fly? This is the way I listen to all of my music on one of my systems. Everything is converted to 1X DSD and sent to a DSD-only DAC. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
Teresa Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 I have been meaning to ask you this for awhile. Have you tried using something like JRiver to convert Redbook files to DSD on the fly? This is the way I listen to all of my music on one of my systems. Everything is converted to 1X DSD and sent to a DSD-only DAC. No I haven't tried that. However, I didn't like the sound quality of SACDs that I believed were from 16/44.1kHz PCM masters. Upsampling CD quality to 24/192 on my Teac DAC doesn't magically make them good so I have a hard time believing DSD can. I prefer my DSD to be from high quality analog or DSD masters. I am happy it works for you. I use Pure Music and sometimes the Teac HR Audio Player for playing my DSD music files. I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
beetlemania Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Nice rant, Teresa. And I mean that sincerely and in a good way. IME, 16/44 can sound pretty good. Maybe it's my ears or maybe my gear. Regardless, I agree that hi-res is better. To me, 24 bit is more relaxed and musical - just more pleasant to listen to and I'm willing to pay more for it (even if I think it's overpriced). I actually took the step to use the Foobar comparator to see if I'm not just an audiophool. I made a couple of mistakes at first but quickly trained myself regarding what to listen for and correctly distinguished 16/44 from 24/44 (I thought I was comparing 24/192) 8-10 consecutive times without issue. I'm excited about Pono and what it can mean for audio quality. I'm mystified that there have been so many negative-Nellies on these fora. If some folks find 16/44 or, even, MP3s sufficient, good for them. But why dump on those that prefer 24 bit (or DSD)? Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables Link to comment
REShaman Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Teresa, In my opinion you and Chris are both right about the thread, your post, his curator's decision. I won't support this with specifics, but I understand Chris Connacker's perspective as curator of that thread, AND, starting another thread where you can focus on the perspectives you value that touch on the other thread but also add an extended dimension to your valuable perspectives and insights. With the arrangement the differences about what is OT and what is not is resolved and a win-win outcome I'd accomplished. The value to each perspective is not diminished and the information you have to offer finds a thread that can focus on the breath of your perspectives that include Pono but is or maybe better separate as Chris is drawing a narrower or more specific focus for Pono. Merely my thoughts on the matter without making anyone wrong. Rather both of you valid in your perspectives. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter(s) that include the ideas of the goals for Pono and beyond. You've taken this thread into a more extensive scale in time and subject matter. Thank you. Enjoy the music, Richard Link to comment
Teresa Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Thanks Beetlemania and Richard. While I don't understand Chris Connacker's decision to delete my pro-Pono and pro-high resolution posts in two different Pono threads, I respect his decision as the thread starter and the owner of Computer Audiophile. There are three more newer deleted pro-Pono and pro-high resolution posts from those threads that I may bring to this one later tonight. It's a lot of work for me but I will try my best. I may just have to post my responses to the anti-Pono and anti-high resolution posters here so I don't have to do everything twice and hope those sitting on the fence find my thread. I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
Teresa Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 From Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic ...I support the cause (don't understand why anyone on this forum wouldn't). Me too, I'm totally for bringing high resolution PCM to the masses and bringing the "soul" back to music for them. Some of us would prefer that the focus be on getting new masters than trying to mislead the public with talk of how "bad" CD-quality audio is and how much better "high res" files are. CD and 16/44.1kHz PCM is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the listening public, it's cold, uncomfortable, strident and ugly in my humble opinion. Just going up to 24/88.2kHz helps considerably, but 24/192 sounds even more analog-like. I agree 100% with Neil Young, MP3 and CD quality is bad, very bad. This is exactly the problem. CD quality is already the equivalent of the "Blu-ray disc" for audio. CD quality is not even the equivalent of VHS cassette for audio. 24/192 PCM would be closer to "Blu-ray disc" quality for audio in my opinion. I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
Teresa Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Why Neil Young hates MP3s -- and what you can do about it A couple of interesting quotes from this February 2012 article: "My goal is to try and rescue the art form that I've been practicing for the past 50 years," Young said. "We live in the digital age, and unfortunately it's degrading our music, not improving." ...MP3s weren't good enough for Steve Jobs. According to Young, even Jobs himself wasn't satisfied with the sound quality of the iPod. The late Apple CEO, famously a music-lover and audiophile, preferred to listen to vinyl records instead of digital files. I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
Teresa Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Neil Young Explains Pono Music And How It Raised Millions On Kickstarter. I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
Teresa Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Two more interesting Pono videos. Neil Young And The Future Of Digital Audio Pono Music Where Your Soul Rediscovers Music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHIvvrMikUY I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
christopher3393 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Thanks, Teresa! That second video with all the musicians is the most compelling media presentation of Pono I've encountered so far. I hope this is the beginning of a movement. Link to comment
hvbias Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I hate the strident "digital" sound of 16/44.1kHz PCM totally and completely, it is pure crap to my ears no matter what equipment is used to play it. BTW my DAC is the Teac UD-501 which plays music files up to 32 bit 384kHz PCM and 5.6MHz DSD. I support Neil Young’s crusade for higher resolution more analog-like sounding digital. What do you do for music that is only available on redbook CD? One of the greatest modern music labels (Mosaic Records) is pretty much only CD with a handful of vinyl releases. My music life would certainly be significantly poorer without the dozens of Mosaic box sets in my collection. Most of this music will never see a hi-res release. Link to comment
wisnon Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Thanks, Teresa! That second video with all the musicians is the most compelling media presentation of Pono I've encountered so far. I hope this is the beginning of a movement. WTF, dont these rich musicians have good digital setups? They all seem surprised that hi-rez with a good PCM Dac with a good filtering and no pre-ringing can sound good! Dayum, I am shocked that pro musicians are just finding this out! Link to comment
Paul R Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I am more than shocked- I being to get a whiff of the unmistakable mauvaise odeur de poisson pourri... WTF, dont these rich musicians have good digital setups? They all seem surprised that hi-rez with a good PCM Dac with a good filtering and no pre-ringing can sound good!Dayum, I am shocked that pro musicians are just finding this out! Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
astrotoy Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 About a year and a half ago, we had a home concert with four members of the San Francisco Symphony and a pianist (playing the Schubert Trout Quintet.) After the performance, a couple of them wandered into my hi-fi room and quickly called the others to see it. They were all amazed - never saw such a system before. I told them about my ripping project. One of them, a cellist whose has been with the symphony since the late '70's saw one of my R2Rs and said that he had a couple of old tapes of his recitals when he was at Curtis. Could I play them or convert them so he could listen to them. I asked him what he had at home - he said he had a computer, so he could play iTunes and he had a CD player. Anyway, I was able to digitize his R2R - they were in good shape and sounded quite good - 4tr, 7.5ips, 2 channel. I did 192/24 using my PM Model Two. I gave a stick to him with the files and said he could play them through iTunes (since it downsamples automatically to 16/44). He said the Symphony has a whole bunch of fancy digital equipment and he could probably play the 192/24 files there, but would check. When I talked to him later, he said that he could play the files with the Symphony's equipment and technician. Anyway, here is a group of musicians who are among the highest paid in the world for symphony players (I didn't ask how much they made, but the papers say their recent agreement puts their base pay at about $150K.) None of them had a fancy hi-fi and it seems like none of them had any more than a turntable and CD player at home, certainly not a DAC. Larry Analog-VPIClas3,3DArm,LyraSkala+MiyajimaZeromono,Herron VTPH2APhono,2AmpexATR-102+MerrillTridentMaster TapePreamp Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicrosonicsModel2; Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC, Roon-HQPlayer,Oppo105 Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps; Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR Other-2x512EngineerMarutaniSymmetrical Power+Cables Music-1.8KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,50+TBripped files Link to comment
Drtrey3 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Larry, I find that being a professional musician really does not raise the chance that they know or care about high quality playback. At least not here in Nashville. Trey Link to comment
Teresa Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 What do you do for music that is only available on redbook CD? One of the greatest modern music labels (Mosaic Records) is pretty much only CD with a handful of vinyl releases. My music life would certainly be significantly poorer without the dozens of Mosaic box sets in my collection. Most of this music will never see a hi-res release. If it's only on CD I don't buy it because for me it doesn't exist. I don't own anything on Mosaic Records however I would only be interested if they are well engineered, recorded and mastered in high quality analog, 24 bit PCM or DSD and released in an analog or high resolution digital format. My high resolution music files are from audiophile LPs, SACDs, DVD-Audios and high resolution downloads. My favorite record labels include Opus 3, Reference Recordings, MFSL, Classic Records, Sheffield Lab, Crystal Clear and other audiophile labels both original audiophile recordings and audiophile remasters. Here is a list of artists I have in high resolution 24 PCM, most 88.2kHz PCM and higher. Alan Parsons Project Alison Krauss & Union Station Allman Brothers Band Alyn Cosker Amy Duncan Ana Caram Babatunde Olatunji Band Barb Jungr Beatles Beck Ben Harper Ben Webster Bill Berry and his Ellington All-Stars Billy Burnette Black Sabbath Blubell & Black Tie Bob Mintzer, Giovanni Hildago, Andy Gonzalez and Randy Brecker Bonnie Raitt Buddy Guy Buddy Rich Buena Vista Social Club Canned Heat Cannonball Adderley, Miles Davis, Hank Jones, Sam Jones and Art Blakey Carly Simon Carmen Gomes Casino Royale Cassandra Wilson Cat Power Cat Stevens CC Coletti Charles Mingus Charlie Mariano & Dieter Ilg Chet Atkins Chris Isaak Chris Jones Christy Baron Claire Martin Conga Kings Count Basie and the Kansas City 7 Cream Creedence Clearwater Revival Crosby, Stills & Nash Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Dave Brubeck Quartet Dave Grusin Dave's True Story David Carroll and his Orchestra David Crosby David Johansen and The Harry Smiths Dean Peer Deep Purple Depeche Mode Dexter Gordon Dick Hyman Dick Schory’s New Percussion Ensemble Dieter Ilg Dire Straits (Note: I only have the analog Love over Gold) Donovan Doors Doug MacLeod Duke Ellington Dusty Springfield Earl "Fatha" Hines Earl Klugh Edgar Knecht Elvis Presley Emerson, Lake & Palmer Emily Barker & The Red Clay Halo Emmylou Harris Eric Clapton Erich Kunzel Fleetwood Mac Flem Ferguson Gil Evans Orchestra Gordon Lightfoot Grateful Dead Harry Hypolite Henry Mancini Herbie Mann Hiromi Uehara Hoff Ensemble Hot Tuna I-Ching Illinois Jacquet James Taylor Javon Jackson, David Hazeltine, Tony Reedus & Paul Gill Jefferson Airplane Jethro Tull Jimi Hendrix Experience Jimmy Cobb Quartet Jimmy D. Lane Jimmy Smith JJ Cale John Hammond John Lennon Jon Faddis Joo Kraus & Tales In Tones Trio Jungle Boldie Junior Wells Kasia Lins King Crimson Kinks Larry Coryell, Victor Bailey & Lenny White Laurindo Almeida LaVerne Butler Lenny White, Jamey Haddad, Mark Sherman Leon Russell Linda Ronstadt Livingston Taylor Loch Lomond Los Lobos Louis Armstrong & Duke Ellington Lucinda Williams Maeve O'Boyle Mark Knopfler Marta Gomez Matthew Sweet Meshell Ndegeocello Miles Davis Monty Alexander Moody Blues Muddy Waters Myra Taylor Nancy Bryan Neil Cowley Trio Neil Young Nitty Gritty Dirt Band Norah Jones Paquito D'Rivera Patricia Barber Paul McCartney Pee Wee Russell Peter Gabriel Pink Floyd Pink Martini Poncho Sanchez Rachel Z Rebecca Pidgeon Richard Thompson Robert Lucas Rolling Stones Ronnie Earl Roots Roy Gaines Rumon Gamba Ryan Bingham Salvagnini Quartet Sara K Sonny Rollins Sonny Stitt Spirit Stan Getz, João Gilberto Supertramp Susan Wong Talking Heads Ten Years After Terry Evans Thelonious Monk Trichotomy Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio Valerie Joyce Wayne Horvitz Who Wycliffe Gordon Xiomara Laugart Yes And in DSD Barb Jungr Campbell Brothers Carol Kidd Claire Martin Coleman Hawkins Ella Fitzgerald Eric Bibb Inga Rumpf Jimmie Lee Robinson Jimmy D. Lane with Double Trouble Joakim Milder Joe Holland Quartet Joe McQueen and Friends Johan Dielemans Trio John Moriarty Judith Owen Kent Poon Band Kid Ory plays W.C. Handy Lars Erstrand Sessions Michel Godard, Patrick Bebelaar, Ensemble Stupor Mundi Rolf Kuhn Quartet Stephen McQuarry Trio Tomas Ornbergs Blue Five Transatlantic Jazz Swingtet Wild Child Butler My favorite music is rock music from the 1960s-1970s and jazz from the 1950s-1960s. I also like some rock and jazz outside of that time frame. I have most of the Beatles on MFSL LPs from the 1970s, all the Doors albums from the DVD-Audios and tons of other music I dearly love. My theory if I wait long enough music I like will show up on audiophile LPs, SACDs, DVD-Audios or high resolution downloads. I have learned patience. I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
wappinghigh Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 $34.99 in early 1970's dollars does *not* = $202.25 in today's dollars.. No disrespect, but thats' 40 years of compounding interest: you need to get a Warren Buffett style Texas Instruments compounding calculator... Here you go: use this http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php Didn't we have interest rates and inflation thru the 70's and 80's up over 10%..? Cheers.. New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra Link to comment
wappinghigh Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 ^ But the point is very valid.. Would people buy digital hirez albums now for over $500??? Nope. Music reproduction has become a commodity like everything else.. It's why even though I believe Neil Y is awesome and god bless him for the passion and trying: I think the specific Pono venture with the online shop and playing device is doomed to fail (alas) Still if the aim is to get recording studios on the hirez bandwagon (Mr Young hinted as much in the interview): then bring it on, and let's have the hirez streaming services.. Loved the OP BTW.. Awesome analog history. Thanks for posting New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra Link to comment
wappinghigh Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 ^ In other words it just may be that Neil has a bigger agenda here...and doesn't even care if the player or store fails in the long run.. As long as the benchmark is raised on the source recordings... *THAT* alone is why Pono is important, because it is backed by such a passionate and famous big time music legend. Someone who can get this issue into the mainstream media and landscape.. But most importantly Neil is no doubt a guy other muso's and recording engineers will respect. If that is his ultimate goal (and he is prepared to take personal losses in the process) then OMG.. what a legend he truly is!!!! Neil you are awesome man!!!! New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra Link to comment
Teresa Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 $34.99 in early 1970's dollars does *not* = $202.25 in today's dollars.. No disrespect, but thats' 40 years of compounding interest: you need to get a Warren Buffett style Texas Instruments compounding calculator... Here you go: use this http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php Didn't we have interest rates and inflation thru the 70's and 80's up over 10%..? Cheers.. Thanks, I didn't figure in interest as I was comparing the past to the present in real purchasing power using an online inflation calculator. I just did a google search and didn't find the same one but found the calculator at Dollar Times which says "$34.99 in 1970 had the same buying power as $216.30 in 2014. Annual inflation over this period was 4.23%." ^ But the point is very valid.. Would people buy digital hirez albums now for over $500??? I don't think they would! However that $34.99 2 track 15 IPS reel to reel tape from the 1970s which cost over $200 in 2014 dollars would explain why the Tape Project's 2 track 15 IPS prerecorded reel to reel tapes currently in print cost $300 each. Digital downloads are a bargain compared to the what we paid during the analog era in real inflation adjusted dollars. I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
wisnon Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 $400 for a high quality (Ayre Dac engine) portable player should work. It will be the must have new iPod for the leading edge. iPod on steroids that will play CD and higher resolution and sound terrific even with crappy Beats headphones. I can see it being one of the most requested "toys" for next Xmas season, as it also doubles up as a quality home player for the GenX/Y and Z. Link to comment
hvbias Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 My favorite music is rock music from the 1960s-1970s and jazz from the 1950s-1960s. I also like some rock and jazz outside of that time frame. I have most of the Beatles on MFSL LPs from the 1970s, all the Doors albums from the DVD-Audios and tons of other music I dearly love. My theory if I wait long enough music I like will show up on audiophile LPs, SACDs, DVD-Audios or high resolution downloads. I have learned patience. Mosaic Records is an archival company that releases jazz from the early 20th century to current day. Many outtakes, bonus tracks, and lost gems that would regularly never see the release of day. Link to comment
REShaman Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Mosaic Records is an archival company that releases jazz from the early 20th century to current day. Many outtakes, bonus tracks, and lost gems that would regularly never see the release of day. Concur, I have fourteen box sets from Ahmad Jamal to Dennis Zeitlin. All so very listenable and artistically magical. Ahmad Jamal, Johnny Smith, Django Reinhardt, Joe Pass, Modern Jazz Quartet, Sonny Stitt, Paul Chambers, Charlie Mingus, Sarah Vaughn, Oscar Peterson, Dennis Zeitlin, Gerry Mulligan, McCoy Tyner. Their musicality notwithstanding the format that renders are treasures. One is free to reject music for whatever criteria serves their interests. And one is free to enjoy the same music of incomparable artists. If not hi-res, it is high artistry and very listenable, if not perfect. Enjoying the music, Richard Link to comment
hvbias Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Concur, I have fourteen box sets from Ahmad Jamal to Dennis Zeitlin. All so very listenable and artistically magical. Ahmad Jamal, Johnny Smith, Django Reinhardt, Joe Pass, Modern Jazz Quartet, Sonny Stitt, Paul Chambers, Charlie Mingus, Sarah Vaughn, Oscar Peterson, Dennis Zeitlin, Gerry Mulligan, McCoy Tyner. Their musicality notwithstanding the format that renders are treasures. One is free to reject music for whatever criteria serves their interests. And one is free to enjoy the same music of incomparable artists. If not hi-res, it is high artistry and very listenable, if not perfect. Enjoying the music, Richard Well said Richard. I simply could not imagine being a music lover (primarily, secondarily an audiophile) without them. My music life would be much poorer without all their wonderful jazz boxes. Link to comment
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