Jump to content
IGNORED

Why PONO and high resolution are important.


Recommended Posts

These are my deleted posts from Chris Connaker's excellent article: Pono or Oh No - An Interview With Neil Young which he felt were off topic, which I firmly believe are very on topic and in defense of high resolution analog, high resolution digital and support PONO.

 

They were responses to comments in Pono or Oh No - An Interview With Neil Young by others that needed correcting, instead of correcting those comments or deleting them Chris instead deleted by responses so here they are:

 

...In the pre digital days when vinyl ruled, everyone got the same product, that is a vinyl album. To make it sound awesome, you'd get a high quality hifi system, the album would keep sounding better the better your system got. Nowadays, the fragmentation is unbelievable in comparison with so many different formats and bit rates is it any wonder audiophiles are confused! I hope Pono returns us to the old model of buying an album once and for that you get the highest available sound!

 

I'm older than the hills and lived much of my life in those pre-digital days. I just wanted to point out there were many if not more analog formats and different resolutions than the current digital ones.

 

During the analog era I was never big on LPs, preferring instead prerecorded reel to reel tapes and audiophile cassettes. So while vinyl did rule not everyone got the same product.

 

There were many analog formats and resolutions that lived when I was young, and I collected many of them. Some such as 78s were already dead.

 

My first format was prerecorded 8 Track cartridges, I almost bought a 4 Track cartridge player but Muntz Stereo Tape stores had a wider selection of 8 Track tapes. There was also Quadraphonic 8 Track tapes.

 

I later sold my 8 track player and got a Teac reel to reel deck, I didn't use it for recording I played prerecorded tapes. Prerecorded reel to reel tapes were available in 2 Track 15 IPS, 4 Track 7 1/2 IPS and 4 Track 3 3/4 IPS, the ones from audiophile labels were real time duplicated and those from commercial major labels were slow-speed and high-speed duplicated depending on the label. Also there were Quadraphonic discreet 4 track 4 channel prerecorded reel to reel tapes.

 

Next came prerecorded cassettes, there were commercial major label cassettes as well as expensive "real time" duplicated audiophile prerecorded cassettes, some with as many as three versions to choose from (Dolby B, Dolby C and DBX). Towards the end of cassette era there were some that were Dolby S encoded.

 

There was of course the LP you mentioned which I never seriously collected during the analog era as I stated above. The LP had commercial major label versions and the audiophile remasters. And of course the Quad formats. Also there were separate LP versions with non-compatible DBX or CX noise reduction.

 

During the early 1970's some recordings had as many as a dozen versions to choose from in the various formats and resolutions.

 

Of course there were other formats which I never owned, many which offered prerecorded software and some such as Elcaset which were record only.

 

I just wanted to say it wasn't all LPs. In my opinion LPs were not the highest resolution avaliable but the 2 Track 15 IPS 10 inch prerecorded real time duplicated reel to reel tapes which cost $34.99 in the early 1970s, which would be $202.25 in today's dollars. So I would say high resolution digital is a bargain compared to the highest resolution analog of yesteryear.

 

I also believe that Pono is more about the music store than the player. The player will always be fluid like all technology. It wont stop with the first gen player, it will keep evolving with upgrades and maybe a choice between different models at various price points, some even aimed solely for home use in your big system etc. This will happen if the music store succeeds!

 

They should market this along the lines of 'to get awesome sound, you need Pono Music Files for your chosen playback device (ie, it will work with anything). To get even better sound than that, the best available, you need Pono Music played back through our Pono Player'!

 

I wish everyone associated with this project the best of success and of course kudos must go to the one and only Mr Neil Young, long may he run!

 

I agree and I too wish Neil Young and Pono the best of luck. Their success I believe means more exposure to high-resolution downloads for the masses and hopefully more great sounding music for us.

 

Teresa,

That was an interesting slice of history. Thank you for bringing back the memories. (And, in some cases, the nightmares...) :)

 

Off topic comments removed. -Editor

 

Chris, why did you remove my rebuttal to the comment “In the pre digital days when vinyl ruled, everyone got the same product, that is a vinyl album.” and yet let Captain Crunch’s original comment and Don Hills’ response stand? I offered plenty of proof in the pre-digital era that everyone didn't get the same product and that there were vastly different levels of resolution just as there is now in digital formats and now everyday people, not just the rich, can actually afford high resolution music.

 

It took me over three hours to research to write that post and now two more hours to compile them into this post. Thank goodness I saved the original post on my hard-drive as I do need to make one correction to it in case anyone saved it for historical reasons. I was wrong, the 2 track 15 IPS prerecorded reel to reel tapes from Sonar, Ambisonic, Direct to Tape and others was not the highest resolution analog format offered to consumers, it was the Mark Levinson's 2 track 30 IPS prerecorded reel to reel tapes playable on the Mark Levinson ML-5.

 

Very well written article questioning the need for 192/24 in Pono. Most of his sources have been discussed around here before, but he puts it all together nicely.

 

Sound bite: Despite Pono's promise, experts pan HD audio | Internet & Media - CNET News

 

I agree with Superdad it's not true, however I also think that article is poorly written and its conclusions are dead wrong.

 

This quote among others from the article is sorely incorrect “In other words, yes, the CD audio format that Philips and Sony introduced in 1982 really is good enough.” Oh my, how wrong can a statement be? Almost as bad as Perfect Sound Forever.

 

They quoted the discredited Meyer/Moran studies and the ignorant rantings of Monty Montgomery who are out to discredit high-end audio and high resolution music. Monty Montgomery is creator of the lossy Vorbis format, of course he would come down hard on lossless 24 bit high resolution PCM. You have to understand why people like this tell untruths and misuse test equipment to support their boneheaded conclusions. My article Are Ultrasonics Important? Current Theory and High Resolution Digital offers a counterpoint to the article you linked and its attempt to reduce us to mediocrity.

 

In my experience even low resolution 8-track cartridges are more musical sounding than the very digital-sounding 16/44.1kHz format including CD. In short, were it not for 24/88.2kHz PCM and higher I would still be playing to LPs and reel to reel tapes as I don't like the so-called "digital" sound of 16/44.1kHz PCM, I find it uncomfortable and often very strident!

 

I am praying that PONO will kill off the dreadful sounding CD format once and for all time.

 

Here is another on topic post from a different thread
Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic
that was deleted because the original post by Sceptic was also deleted, I have no problem with that. However I think it also has very important information in it so present it here also.

 

Skeptic if you honestly believe that, why your interest in PONO and 24/192kHz PCM?

 

I agree completely with Neil Young on the more analog-like sound of 24/192, it appears you don’t. Besides extended frequency response, higher sampling rates offer faster transient response as there are more samples per second and smoother filtering as it is removed further from the audible range. Also in regards to frequency response, only the audible frequencies are limited to 20 to 24kHz or so in human beings. The inaudible frequencies are perhaps more important than the audible frequencies in how music feels. Humans respond to frequencies up to 80kHz, musical instruments have overtones up to 102.4 KHz. See There's Life Above 20 Kilohertz! A Survey of Musical Instrument Spectra to 102.4 KHz

 

Also ultrasonic overtones are said to affect the timbre of audible frequencies downline offering more accurate rendition of the true sound of voices, instruments and the space they are performed in.

 

Neil Young and the rest of us fully understand this, apparently you do not.

 

I hate the strident "digital" sound of 16/44.1kHz PCM totally and completely, it is pure crap to my ears no matter what equipment is used to play it. BTW my DAC is the Teac UD-501 which plays music files up to 32 bit 384kHz PCM and 5.6MHz DSD.

 

I support Neil Young’s crusade for higher resolution more analog-like sounding digital.

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

Link to comment
I hate the strident "digital" sound of 16/44.1kHz PCM totally and completely, it is pure crap to my ears no matter what equipment is used to play it. BTW my DAC is the Teac UD-501 which plays music files up to 32 bit 384kHz PCM and 5.6MHz DSD.

 

I have been meaning to ask you this for awhile.

 

Have you tried using something like JRiver to convert Redbook files to DSD on the fly? This is the way I listen to all of my music on one of my systems. Everything is converted to 1X DSD and sent to a DSD-only DAC.

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

Link to comment
I have been meaning to ask you this for awhile.

 

Have you tried using something like JRiver to convert Redbook files to DSD on the fly? This is the way I listen to all of my music on one of my systems. Everything is converted to 1X DSD and sent to a DSD-only DAC.

 

No I haven't tried that. However, I didn't like the sound quality of SACDs that I believed were from 16/44.1kHz PCM masters. Upsampling CD quality to 24/192 on my Teac DAC doesn't magically make them good so I have a hard time believing DSD can. I prefer my DSD to be from high quality analog or DSD masters. I am happy it works for you.

 

I use Pure Music and sometimes the Teac HR Audio Player for playing my DSD music files.

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

Link to comment

Nice rant, Teresa. And I mean that sincerely and in a good way.

 

IME, 16/44 can sound pretty good. Maybe it's my ears or maybe my gear.

 

Regardless, I agree that hi-res is better. To me, 24 bit is more relaxed and musical - just more pleasant to listen to and I'm willing to pay more for it (even if I think it's overpriced). I actually took the step to use the Foobar comparator to see if I'm not just an audiophool. I made a couple of mistakes at first but quickly trained myself regarding what to listen for and correctly distinguished 16/44 from 24/44 (I thought I was comparing 24/192) 8-10 consecutive times without issue.

 

I'm excited about Pono and what it can mean for audio quality. I'm mystified that there have been so many negative-Nellies on these fora. If some folks find 16/44 or, even, MP3s sufficient, good for them. But why dump on those that prefer 24 bit (or DSD)?

Roon ROCK (Roon 1.7; NUC7i3) > Ayre QB-9 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Thiel CS2.4SE (crossovers rebuilt with Clarity CSA and Multicap RTX caps, Mills MRA-12 resistors; ERSE and Jantzen coils; Cardas binding posts and hookup wire); Cardas and OEM power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables

Link to comment

Teresa,

 

In my opinion you and Chris are both right about the thread, your post, his curator's decision. I won't support this with specifics, but I understand Chris Connacker's perspective as curator of that thread, AND, starting another thread where you can focus on the perspectives you value that touch on the other thread but also add an extended dimension to your valuable perspectives and insights.

 

With the arrangement the differences about what is OT and what is not is resolved and a win-win outcome I'd accomplished. The value to each perspective is not diminished and the information you have to offer finds a thread that can focus on the breath of your perspectives that include Pono but is or maybe better separate as Chris is drawing a narrower or more specific focus for Pono.

 

Merely my thoughts on the matter without making anyone wrong. Rather both of you valid in your perspectives.

 

Thank you for your thoughts on the matter(s) that include the ideas of the goals for Pono and beyond. You've taken this thread into a more extensive scale in time and subject matter.

 

Thank you.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

Link to comment

Thanks Beetlemania and Richard. While I don't understand Chris Connacker's decision to delete my pro-Pono and pro-high resolution posts in two different Pono threads, I respect his decision as the thread starter and the owner of Computer Audiophile.

 

There are three more newer deleted pro-Pono and pro-high resolution posts from those threads that I may bring to this one later tonight. It's a lot of work for me but I will try my best.

 

I may just have to post my responses to the anti-Pono and anti-high resolution posters here so I don't have to do everything twice and hope those sitting on the fence find my thread.

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

Link to comment

From Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic

 

...I support the cause (don't understand why anyone on this forum wouldn't).

 

Me too, I'm totally for bringing high resolution PCM to the masses and bringing the "soul" back to music for them.

 

Some of us would prefer that the focus be on getting new masters than trying to mislead the public with talk of how "bad" CD-quality audio is and how much better "high res" files are.

 

CD and 16/44.1kHz PCM is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the listening public, it's cold, uncomfortable, strident and ugly in my humble opinion. Just going up to 24/88.2kHz helps considerably, but 24/192 sounds even more analog-like.

 

I agree 100% with Neil Young, MP3 and CD quality is bad, very bad.

 

This is exactly the problem. CD quality is already the equivalent of the "Blu-ray disc" for audio.

 

CD quality is not even the equivalent of VHS cassette for audio. 24/192 PCM would be closer to "Blu-ray disc" quality for audio in my opinion.

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

Link to comment

Why Neil Young hates MP3s -- and what you can do about it A couple of interesting quotes from this February 2012 article:

 

"My goal is to try and rescue the art form that I've been practicing for the past 50 years," Young said. "We live in the digital age, and unfortunately it's degrading our music, not improving."

 

...MP3s weren't good enough for Steve Jobs. According to Young, even Jobs himself wasn't satisfied with the sound quality of the iPod. The late Apple CEO, famously a music-lover and audiophile, preferred to listen to vinyl records instead of digital files.

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

Link to comment

Neil Young Explains Pono Music And How It Raised Millions On Kickstarter.

 

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

Link to comment

I hate the strident "digital" sound of 16/44.1kHz PCM totally and completely, it is pure crap to my ears no matter what equipment is used to play it. BTW my DAC is the Teac UD-501 which plays music files up to 32 bit 384kHz PCM and 5.6MHz DSD.

 

I support Neil Young’s crusade for higher resolution more analog-like sounding digital.

 

What do you do for music that is only available on redbook CD? One of the greatest modern music labels (Mosaic Records) is pretty much only CD with a handful of vinyl releases. My music life would certainly be significantly poorer without the dozens of Mosaic box sets in my collection. Most of this music will never see a hi-res release.

Link to comment
Thanks, Teresa! That second video with all the musicians is the most compelling media presentation of Pono I've encountered so far. I hope this is the beginning of a movement.

 

WTF, dont these rich musicians have good digital setups? They all seem surprised that hi-rez with a good PCM Dac with a good filtering and no pre-ringing can sound good!

Dayum, I am shocked that pro musicians are just finding this out!

Link to comment

I am more than shocked- I being to get a whiff of the unmistakable mauvaise odeur de poisson pourri...

 

WTF, dont these rich musicians have good digital setups? They all seem surprised that hi-rez with a good PCM Dac with a good filtering and no pre-ringing can sound good!

Dayum, I am shocked that pro musicians are just finding this out!

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

Link to comment

About a year and a half ago, we had a home concert with four members of the San Francisco Symphony and a pianist (playing the Schubert Trout Quintet.) After the performance, a couple of them wandered into my hi-fi room and quickly called the others to see it. They were all amazed - never saw such a system before. I told them about my ripping project. One of them, a cellist whose has been with the symphony since the late '70's saw one of my R2Rs and said that he had a couple of old tapes of his recitals when he was at Curtis. Could I play them or convert them so he could listen to them. I asked him what he had at home - he said he had a computer, so he could play iTunes and he had a CD player. Anyway, I was able to digitize his R2R - they were in good shape and sounded quite good - 4tr, 7.5ips, 2 channel. I did 192/24 using my PM Model Two. I gave a stick to him with the files and said he could play them through iTunes (since it downsamples automatically to 16/44). He said the Symphony has a whole bunch of fancy digital equipment and he could probably play the 192/24 files there, but would check. When I talked to him later, he said that he could play the files with the Symphony's equipment and technician.

 

Anyway, here is a group of musicians who are among the highest paid in the world for symphony players (I didn't ask how much they made, but the papers say their recent agreement puts their base pay at about $150K.) None of them had a fancy hi-fi and it seems like none of them had any more than a turntable and CD player at home, certainly not a DAC.

 

Larry

Analog-VPIClas3,3DArm,LyraSkala+MiyajimaZeromono,Herron VTPH2APhono,2AmpexATR-102+MerrillTridentMaster TapePreamp  Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicrosonicsModel2; Dig Play-Lampi Pacific, mch NADAC, Roon-HQPlayer,Oppo105  Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR

Other-2x512EngineerMarutaniSymmetrical Power+Cables Music-15KRecs(90%classical),1.7KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,50TBripped files

Link to comment
What do you do for music that is only available on redbook CD? One of the greatest modern music labels (Mosaic Records) is pretty much only CD with a handful of vinyl releases. My music life would certainly be significantly poorer without the dozens of Mosaic box sets in my collection. Most of this music will never see a hi-res release.

 

If it's only on CD I don't buy it because for me it doesn't exist.

 

I don't own anything on Mosaic Records however I would only be interested if they are well engineered, recorded and mastered in high quality analog, 24 bit PCM or DSD and released in an analog or high resolution digital format.

 

My high resolution music files are from audiophile LPs, SACDs, DVD-Audios and high resolution downloads. My favorite record labels include Opus 3, Reference Recordings, MFSL, Classic Records, Sheffield Lab, Crystal Clear and other audiophile labels both original audiophile recordings and audiophile remasters.

 

Here is a list of artists I have in high resolution 24 PCM, most 88.2kHz PCM and higher.

 

Alan Parsons Project

Alison Krauss & Union Station

Allman Brothers Band

Alyn Cosker

Amy Duncan

Ana Caram

Babatunde Olatunji

Band

Barb Jungr

Beatles

Beck

Ben Harper

Ben Webster

Bill Berry and his Ellington All-Stars

Billy Burnette

Black Sabbath

Blubell & Black Tie

Bob Mintzer, Giovanni Hildago, Andy Gonzalez and Randy Brecker

Bonnie Raitt

Buddy Guy

Buddy Rich

Buena Vista Social Club

Canned Heat

Cannonball Adderley, Miles Davis, Hank Jones, Sam Jones and Art Blakey

Carly Simon

Carmen Gomes

Casino Royale

Cassandra Wilson

Cat Power

Cat Stevens

CC Coletti

Charles Mingus

Charlie Mariano & Dieter Ilg

Chet Atkins

Chris Isaak

Chris Jones

Christy Baron

Claire Martin

Conga Kings

Count Basie and the Kansas City 7

Cream

Creedence Clearwater Revival

Crosby, Stills & Nash

Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young

Dave Brubeck Quartet

Dave Grusin

Dave's True Story

David Carroll and his Orchestra

David Crosby

David Johansen and The Harry Smiths

Dean Peer

Deep Purple

Depeche Mode

Dexter Gordon

Dick Hyman

Dick Schory’s New Percussion Ensemble

Dieter Ilg

Dire Straits (Note: I only have the analog Love over Gold)

Donovan

Doors

Doug MacLeod

Duke Ellington

Dusty Springfield

Earl "Fatha" Hines

Earl Klugh

Edgar Knecht

Elvis Presley

Emerson, Lake & Palmer

Emily Barker & The Red Clay Halo

Emmylou Harris

Eric Clapton

Erich Kunzel

Fleetwood Mac

Flem Ferguson

Gil Evans Orchestra

Gordon Lightfoot

Grateful Dead

Harry Hypolite

Henry Mancini

Herbie Mann

Hiromi Uehara

Hoff Ensemble

Hot Tuna

I-Ching

Illinois Jacquet

James Taylor

Javon Jackson, David Hazeltine, Tony Reedus & Paul Gill

Jefferson Airplane

Jethro Tull

Jimi Hendrix Experience

Jimmy Cobb Quartet

Jimmy D. Lane

Jimmy Smith

JJ Cale

John Hammond

John Lennon

Jon Faddis

Joo Kraus & Tales In Tones Trio

Jungle Boldie

Junior Wells

Kasia Lins

King Crimson

Kinks

Larry Coryell, Victor Bailey & Lenny White

Laurindo Almeida

LaVerne Butler

Lenny White, Jamey Haddad, Mark Sherman

Leon Russell

Linda Ronstadt

Livingston Taylor

Loch Lomond

Los Lobos

Louis Armstrong & Duke Ellington

Lucinda Williams

Maeve O'Boyle

Mark Knopfler

Marta Gomez

Matthew Sweet

Meshell Ndegeocello

Miles Davis

Monty Alexander

Moody Blues

Muddy Waters

Myra Taylor

Nancy Bryan

Neil Cowley Trio

Neil Young

Nitty Gritty Dirt Band

Norah Jones

Paquito D'Rivera

Patricia Barber

Paul McCartney

Pee Wee Russell

Peter Gabriel

Pink Floyd

Pink Martini

Poncho Sanchez

Rachel Z

Rebecca Pidgeon

Richard Thompson

Robert Lucas

Rolling Stones

Ronnie Earl

Roots

Roy Gaines

Rumon Gamba

Ryan Bingham

Salvagnini Quartet

Sara K

Sonny Rollins

Sonny Stitt

Spirit

Stan Getz, João Gilberto

Supertramp

Susan Wong

Talking Heads

Ten Years After

Terry Evans

Thelonious Monk

Trichotomy

Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio

Valerie Joyce

Wayne Horvitz

Who

Wycliffe Gordon

Xiomara Laugart

Yes

 

And in DSD

 

Barb Jungr

Campbell Brothers

Carol Kidd

Claire Martin

Coleman Hawkins

Ella Fitzgerald

Eric Bibb

Inga Rumpf

Jimmie Lee Robinson

Jimmy D. Lane with Double Trouble

Joakim Milder

Joe Holland Quartet

Joe McQueen and Friends

Johan Dielemans Trio

John Moriarty

Judith Owen

Kent Poon Band

Kid Ory plays W.C. Handy

Lars Erstrand Sessions

Michel Godard, Patrick Bebelaar, Ensemble Stupor Mundi

Rolf Kuhn Quartet

Stephen McQuarry Trio

Tomas Ornbergs Blue Five

Transatlantic Jazz Swingtet

Wild Child Butler

 

My favorite music is rock music from the 1960s-1970s and jazz from the 1950s-1960s. I also like some rock and jazz outside of that time frame.

 

I have most of the Beatles on MFSL LPs from the 1970s, all the Doors albums from the DVD-Audios and tons of other music I dearly love. My theory if I wait long enough music I like will show up on audiophile LPs, SACDs, DVD-Audios or high resolution downloads. I have learned patience.

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

Link to comment

$34.99 in early 1970's dollars does *not* = $202.25 in today's dollars..

 

No disrespect, but thats' 40 years of compounding interest: you need to get a Warren Buffett style Texas Instruments compounding calculator...

 

Here you go: use this

 

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

 

Didn't we have interest rates and inflation thru the 70's and 80's up over 10%..? Cheers..

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

Link to comment

^ But the point is very valid..

 

Would people buy digital hirez albums now for over $500???

 

Nope. Music reproduction has become a commodity like everything else..

 

It's why even though I believe Neil Y is awesome and god bless him for the passion and trying: I think the specific Pono venture with the online shop and playing device is doomed to fail (alas)

 

Still if the aim is to get recording studios on the hirez bandwagon (Mr Young hinted as much in the interview): then bring it on, and let's have the hirez streaming services.. :)

 

Loved the OP BTW.. Awesome analog history. Thanks for posting :)

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

Link to comment

^ In other words it just may be that Neil has a bigger agenda here...and doesn't even care if the player or store fails in the long run..

 

As long as the benchmark is raised on the source recordings...

 

*THAT* alone is why Pono is important, because it is backed by such a passionate and famous big time music legend. Someone who can get this issue into the mainstream media and landscape..

 

But most importantly Neil is no doubt a guy other muso's and recording engineers will respect.

 

If that is his ultimate goal (and he is prepared to take personal losses in the process) then OMG.. what a legend he truly is!!!!

 

Neil you are awesome man!!!!

New simplified setup: STEREO- Primary listening Area: Cullen Circuits Mod ZP90> Benchmark DAC1>RotelRKB250 Power amp>KEF Q Series. Secondary listening areas: 1/ QNAP 119P II(running MinimServer)>UPnP>Linn Majik DSI>Linn Majik 140's. 2/ (Source awaiting)>Invicta DAC>RotelRKB2100 Power amp>Rega's. Tertiary multiroom areas: Same QNAP>SMB>Sonos>Various. MULTICHANNEL- MacMini>A+(Standalone mode)>Exasound e28 >5.1 analog out>Yamaha Avantage Receiver>Pre-outs>Linn Chakra power amps>Linn Katan front and sides. Linn Trikan Centre. Velodyne SPL1000 Ultra

Link to comment
$34.99 in early 1970's dollars does *not* = $202.25 in today's dollars..

 

No disrespect, but thats' 40 years of compounding interest: you need to get a Warren Buffett style Texas Instruments compounding calculator...

 

Here you go: use this

 

http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/calculators/compoundinterestcalculator.php

 

Didn't we have interest rates and inflation thru the 70's and 80's up over 10%..? Cheers..

 

Thanks, I didn't figure in interest as I was comparing the past to the present in real purchasing power using an online inflation calculator. I just did a google search and didn't find the same one but found the calculator at Dollar Times which says "$34.99 in 1970 had the same buying power as $216.30 in 2014.

Annual inflation over this period was 4.23%."

 

^ But the point is very valid..

 

Would people buy digital hirez albums now for over $500???

 

I don't think they would! However that $34.99 2 track 15 IPS reel to reel tape from the 1970s which cost over $200 in 2014 dollars would explain why the Tape Project's 2 track 15 IPS prerecorded reel to reel tapes currently in print cost $300 each.

 

Digital downloads are a bargain compared to the what we paid during the analog era in real inflation adjusted dollars.

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

Link to comment

$400 for a high quality (Ayre Dac engine) portable player should work. It will be the must have new iPod for the leading edge. iPod on steroids that will play CD and higher resolution and sound terrific even with crappy Beats headphones.

 

I can see it being one of the most requested "toys" for next Xmas season, as it also doubles up as a quality home player for the GenX/Y and Z.

Link to comment

My favorite music is rock music from the 1960s-1970s and jazz from the 1950s-1960s. I also like some rock and jazz outside of that time frame.

 

I have most of the Beatles on MFSL LPs from the 1970s, all the Doors albums from the DVD-Audios and tons of other music I dearly love. My theory if I wait long enough music I like will show up on audiophile LPs, SACDs, DVD-Audios or high resolution downloads. I have learned patience.

 

Mosaic Records is an archival company that releases jazz from the early 20th century to current day. Many outtakes, bonus tracks, and lost gems that would regularly never see the release of day.

Link to comment
Mosaic Records is an archival company that releases jazz from the early 20th century to current day. Many outtakes, bonus tracks, and lost gems that would regularly never see the release of day.

 

Concur,

 

I have fourteen box sets from Ahmad Jamal to Dennis Zeitlin. All so very listenable and artistically magical.

 

Ahmad Jamal,

Johnny Smith,

Django Reinhardt,

Joe Pass,

Modern Jazz Quartet,

Sonny Stitt,

Paul Chambers,

Charlie Mingus,

Sarah Vaughn,

Oscar Peterson,

Dennis Zeitlin,

Gerry Mulligan,

McCoy Tyner.

 

Their musicality notwithstanding the format that renders are treasures. One is free to reject music for whatever criteria serves their interests. And one is free to enjoy the same music of incomparable artists. If not hi-res, it is high artistry and very listenable, if not perfect.

 

Enjoying the music,

Richard

Link to comment
Concur,

 

I have fourteen box sets from Ahmad Jamal to Dennis Zeitlin. All so very listenable and artistically magical.

 

Ahmad Jamal,

Johnny Smith,

Django Reinhardt,

Joe Pass,

Modern Jazz Quartet,

Sonny Stitt,

Paul Chambers,

Charlie Mingus,

Sarah Vaughn,

Oscar Peterson,

Dennis Zeitlin,

Gerry Mulligan,

McCoy Tyner.

 

Their musicality notwithstanding the format that renders are treasures. One is free to reject music for whatever criteria serves their interests. And one is free to enjoy the same music of incomparable artists. If not hi-res, it is high artistry and very listenable, if not perfect.

 

Enjoying the music,

Richard

 

Well said Richard. I simply could not imagine being a music lover (primarily, secondarily an audiophile) without them. My music life would be much poorer without all their wonderful jazz boxes.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...