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HD downloads and Blu-Ray audio discs are reported to use different masterings or even mixes


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I have been stunned to read in a French-language audiophile magazine (Stereo Image Prestige) that HD downloads and Blu-Ray High Fidelity Pure Audio discs carry different masterings or even mixes.

 

This magazine has no Internet edition and, as I am mindful of copyright law, I cannot scan it, but here is the upshot for the four Blu-Ray/high-res pairs that get reviewed:

Getz/Gilberto: the high-res download (from Qobuz apparently) and the Blu-Ray audio use different mixes so that the singer and instruments are heard in different positions. In addition, the Blu-Ray audio boosts bass and upper-medium registries.

 

Bob Marley Legend: different mastering. The Blu-Ray is said to be more aggressive than the high-res download.

Stevie Wonder Songs in the Key of Life: different mastering. Again, the Blu-Ray is said to sound more "in-your-face" with the bass and upper-mids getting a serious uplift. The high-res download is said to be more natural.

Anna Netrebko Sempre Libera: the Blu-Ray reportedly gives a better sense of soundstage (suggesting a different mix) but is again more "in-your-face" than the high-res download.

 

The reviewer seems to have done a good job in making sure that these differences were not the result of different sources. Blu-Ray discs were played from a Blu-Ray player, using its co-ax SPDIF output and high-res files initially from a dedicated computer. The reviewer then checked that the results were similar when the high-res files were played from the Blu-Ray transport, again using its SPDIF co-axial output, after burning them on a disc.

 

I doubt that high-res can flourish if there is such proliferation of different versions with no information for prospective buyers: until reading this article, I had been buying Blu-Ray audios on the assumption that their files were the same as the high-res ones offered on Qobuz, ProStudioMasters or HDTracks.

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I think this has a lot to do on where the remastering job was done, respectively who was responsible on the label side.

There may be used different tapes for jobs done i.e. in the USA or in europe (or japan).

 

It is a bloody mess for us (paying) customers, as we actually never know - up to the point one gets both/all versions ...

Esoterc SA-60 / Foobar2000 -> Mytek Stereo 192 DSD / Audio-GD NFB 28.38 -> MEG RL922K / AKG K500 / AKG K1000  / Audioquest Nighthawk / OPPO PM-2 / Sennheiser HD800 / Sennheiser Surrounder / Sony MA900 / STAX SR-303+SRM-323II

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"Getz/Gilberto" has of course been reissued dozens of times, and channels have often been reversed. It was recorded to 3-track tape, so it's possible to make a new 2-channel mixdown during the mastering, when using the 3-track tape (which was rediscovered in 1997)

 

See Steve Hoffman's comment in post #144:

 

Getz/Gilberto Analogue Productions Hybrid SACD | Page 6 | Steve Hoffman Music Forums

Claude

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Yes the new Blu-Ray pure Audio releases are heavily compressed and to my ears are generally inferior to other releases of the same title. The BD-A of Oscar Peterson Night Train is one of the worst I have heard and is bettered by every other release I have.

 

Like CD releases, it is more likely separate HD releases are different masterings than being the same.

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Yes the new Blu-Ray pure Audio releases are heavily compressed (...)

 

Yes indeed, the Blu-Ray release even adds a (light) touch of volume compression to Bruckner compared with the CD - which is exactly the opposite of what one would expect: 24 bits gives you much more dynamic range, which is exactly what you need in Bruckner.

 

Here is the DR report of the Blu Ray:

 

foobar2000 1.2.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1

log date: 2014-03-21 11:31:23

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: Karl Böhm - Wiener Philharmoniker / Bruckner: Symphony No. 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR13 -0.10 dB -18.40 dB 20:09 01-I. Bewegt, nicht zu schnell

DR15 -0.10 dB -22.81 dB 15:32 02-II. Andante, quasi allegretto

DR12 -0.10 dB -18.98 dB 11:06 03-III Scherzo: Bewegt - Trio: Nicht zu schnell. Keinesfalls schleppend

DR12 -0.10 dB -17.56 dB 21:08 04-IV Finale: Bewegt, doch nicht zu schnell

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of tracks: 4

Official DR value: DR13

 

 

Samplerate: 96000 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 24

Bitrate: 2508 kbps

Codec: FLAC

================================================================================

 

Here is the DR report of the CD: the last two movements have a bit more dynamic range.

 

foobar2000 1.2.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1

log date: 2014-03-21 11:29:42

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: Karl Böhm: Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra / Bruckner: Symphony #4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR13 -0.52 dB -19.20 dB 20:11 01-Bruckner: Symphony #4 In E Flat, WAB 104, "Romantic" - 1. Bewegt, Nicht Zu Schell

DR15 -0.23 dB -22.62 dB 15:33 02-Bruckner: Symphony #4 In E Flat, WAB 104, "Romantic" - 2. Andante Quasi Allegretto

DR13 -0.31 dB -20.03 dB 11:08 03-Bruckner: Symphony #4 In E Flat, WAB 104, "Romantic" - 3. Scherzo & Trio

DR13 -0.22 dB -19.17 dB 21:03 04-Bruckner: Symphony #4 In E Flat, WAB 104, "Romantic" - 4. Finale: Bewegt, Doch Nicht Zu Schnell

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of tracks: 4

Official DR value: DR13

 

 

Samplerate: 44100 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 16

Bitrate: 621 kbps

Codec: ALAC

================================================================================

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Judging by DR analysis, it seems that the same master was used for the Blu-Ray and the high-res relases of the (beautiful) album of XVIIth century church music by Robert Hollingworth and his group.

 

Here is the DR report of the high-res download:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: I Fagiolini & Robert Hollingworth / 1612 Italian Vespers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR11 -2.32 dB -16.89 dB 1:42 01-Versicle & Response: "Deus in adiutorium meum"

DR12 -1.81 dB -18.94 dB 5:51 02-Antiphon 1 - "Dum esset rex in accubitu suo" - Psalm 109 - "Dixit Dominus"

DR11 -8.83 dB -24.18 dB 4:07 03-"Exaudi Deus"

DR13 -1.88 dB -21.31 dB 6:41 04-Antiphon 2 - "Laeva eius sub capite meo" - Psalm 112 "Laudate pueri"

DR12 -5.00 dB -20.85 dB 2:59 05-"Benedictus Dominus Deus Sabaoth"

DR12 -3.96 dB -21.35 dB 6:39 06-Antiphon 3 - "Nigra sum sed formosa" - Psalm 121: "Laetatus sum"

DR12 -5.27 dB -23.67 dB 2:18 07-"O dulcissima Maria"

DR12 -2.94 dB -19.70 dB 5:14 08-Antiphon 4 - "Iam hiems transiit" - Psalm 126 "Nisi Dominus"

DR13 -8.18 dB -27.00 dB 3:05 09-Quae Est Ista

DR12 -0.41 dB -18.53 dB 4:52 10-Antiphon 5 - "Speciosa facta es" - Psalm 147 "Lauda, Ierusamem"

DR11 -15.74 dB -30.28 dB 0:57 11-Toccata del 9. Tono

DR13 -1.58 dB -20.30 dB 9:17 12-Capitulum - "Ave, Maris Stella"

DR11 -11.62 dB -26.85 dB 0:16 13-Versicle & Response - "Dignare me"

DR13 -0.47 dB -17.97 dB 9:27 14-Magnificat antiphon - "Beatam me dicent" - Magnificat a20.a28. "Con il sicut locutus. In ecco"

DR16 -6.46 dB -27.22 dB 6:20 15-"Ab aeterno ordinata sum"

DR13 -10.52 dB -29.36 dB 1:32 16-Versicle & Response and Collect of the feast

DR12 -0.27 dB -17.10 dB 7:21 17-Extraliturgical Motet: In ecclesiis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of tracks: 17

Official DR value: DR12

 

 

Samplerate: 96000 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 24

Bitrate: 2637 kbps

Codec: FLAC

================================================================================

 

 

Here is the DR report of the Blu-Ray audio:

 

foobar2000 1.2.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1

log date: 2014-03-21 12:05:37

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: Hollingworth: I Faglioni / 1612 Italian Vespers Blu-Ray

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR11 -2.32 dB -16.89 dB 1:42 01-Viadana: Versicle and Response - Deus, in adiutorium meum

DR12 -1.81 dB -18.94 dB 5:51 02-Viadana: Dixit Dominus (Psalm 109)

DR11 -8.83 dB -24.18 dB 4:07 03-Barbarino: Exaudi, Deus

DR13 -1.88 dB -21.31 dB 6:41 04-Viadana: Laudate, Pueri (Psalm 112)

DR12 -5.00 dB -20.85 dB 2:59 05-Gabrieli: Benedictus

DR12 -3.96 dB -21.35 dB 6:39 06-Viadana: Laetatus sum (Psalm 121)

DR12 -5.27 dB -23.67 dB 2:18 07-Viadana: O Dulcissima Maria

DR12 -2.94 dB -19.71 dB 5:14 08-Viadana: Nisi Dominus (Psalm 126)

DR13 -8.18 dB -27.00 dB 3:05 09-Palestrina: Quae est ista

DR12 -0.41 dB -18.53 dB 4:52 10-Viadana: Laudate Jerusalem (Psalm 147)

DR11 -15.74 dB -30.28 dB 0:57 11-Gabrieli: Toccata del 9. Tono

DR13 -1.58 dB -20.30 dB 9:17 12-Monteverdi: Ave, Maris Stella

DR11 -11.62 dB -26.85 dB 0:16 13-Plainchant: Versicle and Response

DR13 -0.47 dB -17.97 dB 9:27 14-Gabrieli: Magnificat

DR16 -6.46 dB -27.22 dB 6:20 15-Monteverdi: Ab aeterno ordinata sum

DR13 -10.52 dB -29.36 dB 1:32 16-Plainchant: Versicle, Response and Collect of the Feast

DR12 -0.27 dB -17.10 dB 7:21 17-Gabrieli: In ecclesiis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of tracks: 17

Official DR value: DR12

 

 

Samplerate: 96000 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 24

Bitrate: 2558 kbps

Codec: FLAC

================================================================================

Link to comment
Judging by DR analysis, it seems that the same master was used for the Blu-Ray and the high-res relases of the (beautiful) album of XVIIth century church music by Robert Hollingworth and his group.

 

Here is the DR report of the high-res download:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: I Fagiolini & Robert Hollingworth / 1612 Italian Vespers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR11 -2.32 dB -16.89 dB 1:42 01-Versicle & Response: "Deus in adiutorium meum"

DR12 -1.81 dB -18.94 dB 5:51 02-Antiphon 1 - "Dum esset rex in accubitu suo" - Psalm 109 - "Dixit Dominus"

DR11 -8.83 dB -24.18 dB 4:07 03-"Exaudi Deus"

DR13 -1.88 dB -21.31 dB 6:41 04-Antiphon 2 - "Laeva eius sub capite meo" - Psalm 112 "Laudate pueri"

DR12 -5.00 dB -20.85 dB 2:59 05-"Benedictus Dominus Deus Sabaoth"

DR12 -3.96 dB -21.35 dB 6:39 06-Antiphon 3 - "Nigra sum sed formosa" - Psalm 121: "Laetatus sum"

DR12 -5.27 dB -23.67 dB 2:18 07-"O dulcissima Maria"

DR12 -2.94 dB -19.70 dB 5:14 08-Antiphon 4 - "Iam hiems transiit" - Psalm 126 "Nisi Dominus"

DR13 -8.18 dB -27.00 dB 3:05 09-Quae Est Ista

DR12 -0.41 dB -18.53 dB 4:52 10-Antiphon 5 - "Speciosa facta es" - Psalm 147 "Lauda, Ierusamem"

DR11 -15.74 dB -30.28 dB 0:57 11-Toccata del 9. Tono

DR13 -1.58 dB -20.30 dB 9:17 12-Capitulum - "Ave, Maris Stella"

DR11 -11.62 dB -26.85 dB 0:16 13-Versicle & Response - "Dignare me"

DR13 -0.47 dB -17.97 dB 9:27 14-Magnificat antiphon - "Beatam me dicent" - Magnificat a20.a28. "Con il sicut locutus. In ecco"

DR16 -6.46 dB -27.22 dB 6:20 15-"Ab aeterno ordinata sum"

DR13 -10.52 dB -29.36 dB 1:32 16-Versicle & Response and Collect of the feast

DR12 -0.27 dB -17.10 dB 7:21 17-Extraliturgical Motet: In ecclesiis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of tracks: 17

Official DR value: DR12

 

 

Samplerate: 96000 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 24

Bitrate: 2637 kbps

Codec: FLAC

================================================================================

 

 

Here is the DR report of the Blu-Ray audio:

foobar2000 1.2.9 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1

log date: 2014-03-21 12:05:37

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Analyzed: Hollingworth: I Faglioni / 1612 Italian Vespers Blu-Ray

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

DR Peak RMS Duration Track

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR11 -2.32 dB -16.89 dB 1:42 01-Viadana: Versicle and Response - Deus, in adiutorium meum

DR12 -1.81 dB -18.94 dB 5:51 02-Viadana: Dixit Dominus (Psalm 109)

DR11 -8.83 dB -24.18 dB 4:07 03-Barbarino: Exaudi, Deus

DR13 -1.88 dB -21.31 dB 6:41 04-Viadana: Laudate, Pueri (Psalm 112)

DR12 -5.00 dB -20.85 dB 2:59 05-Gabrieli: Benedictus

DR12 -3.96 dB -21.35 dB 6:39 06-Viadana: Laetatus sum (Psalm 121)

DR12 -5.27 dB -23.67 dB 2:18 07-Viadana: O Dulcissima Maria

DR12 -2.94 dB -19.71 dB 5:14 08-Viadana: Nisi Dominus (Psalm 126)

DR13 -8.18 dB -27.00 dB 3:05 09-Palestrina: Quae est ista

DR12 -0.41 dB -18.53 dB 4:52 10-Viadana: Laudate Jerusalem (Psalm 147)

DR11 -15.74 dB -30.28 dB 0:57 11-Gabrieli: Toccata del 9. Tono

DR13 -1.58 dB -20.30 dB 9:17 12-Monteverdi: Ave, Maris Stella

DR11 -11.62 dB -26.85 dB 0:16 13-Plainchant: Versicle and Response

DR13 -0.47 dB -17.97 dB 9:27 14-Gabrieli: Magnificat

DR16 -6.46 dB -27.22 dB 6:20 15-Monteverdi: Ab aeterno ordinata sum

DR13 -10.52 dB -29.36 dB 1:32 16-Plainchant: Versicle, Response and Collect of the Feast

DR12 -0.27 dB -17.10 dB 7:21 17-Gabrieli: In ecclesiis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Number of tracks: 17

Official DR value: DR12

 

 

Samplerate: 96000 Hz

Channels: 2

Bits per sample: 24

Bitrate: 2558 kbps

Codec: FLAC

================================================================================

 

 

Have you by chance done a DR of "SITKOL" Blu-ray? I agree it sounds boosted, I mentioned this over st SH Forum but got no response. Evidently SW has always had possession of the master tapes, so I'm guessing all remasters are using copies of some sort.

Main system: Meridian GO6, Squeezebox touch, Marantz TT15S1, Cambridge 640p, Oppo DV980H, Wyred4Sound ST 1000 + Cyrus PreXVS, ATC SCM19, Panasonic Plasma TH37PX80B.

 

Junior system: Meridian 506, Squeezebox 3, Oppo DV980H, Cambridge DacMagic, Bel Canto S300iU, ProAc Tablette 50, Panasonic TH42U30B.

 

http://s25.photobucket.com/user/chevvies/library/?sort=3&page=1

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Have you by chance done a DR of "SITKOL" Blu-ray? I agree it sounds boosted, I mentioned this over st SH Forum but got no response. Evidently SW has always had possession of the master tapes, so I'm guessing all remasters are using copies of some sort.

 

I haven't bought SW's SITKOL Blu-Ray issue, so I regret that I can't run a DR analysis of it.

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  • 1 month later...

Boris I need some help on the DR logs for Blu-ray. Let's say you're using a Blu-ray that isn't audio-only like the HFPA discs but perhaps "Nonsuch" from XTC and you want to get the DR logs for the new 5.1 PCM mix Steven Wilson did. How do you do it?

 

I can't for the life of me figure out how to extract just 5.1 (or higher) PCM audio (or dts) from a Blu-ray, I have no problem backing up the Blu-ray using DVDFab. Thanks for any help you can offer.

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Boris I need some help on the DR logs for Blu-ray. Let's say you're using a Blu-ray that isn't audio-only like the HFPA discs but perhaps "Nonsuch" from XTC and you want to get the DR logs for the new 5.1 PCM mix Steven Wilson did. How do you do it?

I am afraid I have no answer to this question because I have no multi-channel setup.

 

I can't for the life of me figure out how to extract just 5.1 (or higher) PCM audio (or dts) from a Blu-ray, I have no problem backing up the Blu-ray using DVDFab. Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

Our host has put together a very nice walk-through on this subject here: Computer Audiophile - Ripping Blu-ray The Easy Way

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Boris I need some help on the DR logs for Blu-ray. Let's say you're using a Blu-ray that isn't audio-only like the HFPA discs but perhaps "Nonsuch" from XTC and you want to get the DR logs for the new 5.1 PCM mix Steven Wilson did. How do you do it?

 

I can't for the life of me figure out how to extract just 5.1 (or higher) PCM audio (or dts) from a Blu-ray, I have no problem backing up the Blu-ray using DVDFab. Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

Computer Audiophile - Ripping Blu-ray The Easy Way - Edit: Ah, I see Boris beat me to it. :) BTW, I don't think PassKey is available any longer, but there are other programs that perform the same function.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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I am afraid I have no answer to this question because I have no multi-channel setup.

 

 

 

Our host has put together a very nice walk-through on this subject here: Computer Audiophile - Ripping Blu-ray The Easy Way

 

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. I have some stereo discs to check too so I didn't mean only MCH as the process will be the same. Foobar with the plug-in will do 5.1 PCM the same as it does 2.0 PCM.

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