Dirac: Just say no!

[dc2bluelight]

Skipperdude, there is a lot's of misunderstanding here. Your USB mic will work with Dirac for sure. In the calibration tool you can use the calibration file for you mic. That should be provided by the manufacturer of the microphone not by DIRAC! Dirac is providing only the clalibration file for the XTZ one they are selling as said for convinience.

 

He was using a CAD U37, which is a cardiod, not an omni, much less an omni calibrated for a grazing free-field, and CAD doesn't publish so much as a frequency response graph, much less a cal file for it, for which they cannot be faulted given the intended purpose of the mic. Being a cardiod, it's inappropriate for acoustic measurement anyway. However, the FR measurements he got are very likely to be attributable to some cause other than the mic because of several characteristics mentioned previously.

 

 

So, here is my personal experience with Dirac. First I have achieved a decent measurment with a AV Receiver "puck" microphone that was even without calibration file let's say a 95% exact in the response curve opposed to the calibrated minidsp Umik-1 I bought after. The Umik-1 came with a calibration file that I've downloaded from minidsp's web!

 

You lucked-out. Those puck mics are actually calibrated and their cal file is loaded into the AVR they come with. There's no guarantee they will be that close to correct, or even agree with another copy of the same mic. You may just have a good one, or you also may not be able to tell the difference because the calibration environment used for those mics is highly controlled and repeatable, unlike a listening room. The calibration error likely exists but your measurement system and environment may not have the resolution to see it.

 

 

Use it right and you won't be dissapointed. If you will still see this kind of freq. response like you have measured before then the setup is wrong and you might consider to move thing around in your place;)

 

Good luck!

 

The idea is to get the most accurate measurements possible so DIRAC can generate the most accurate compensation filter that corrects for actual response anomalies in the speakers, room, and listening position rather than include response anomalies introduced by parts of the measurement chain. Using an uncalibrated mic introduces errors that will become part of the correction.

 

In this case the response anomalies he's getting are quite large and not likely caused by the mic alone.

[Youreye]

Thanks for expanding my thoughts dc2bluelight

The "puc" mic is a Pioneer one and in direct comparison to the UMIK the hi's and lows on the response curve were off just a little bit but that was enought to make a huge difference in the sound! I knew they are maybe calibrated for the receiver with the cal file stored in it.

A good calibrated microphone is a must here!

[Kal Rubinson]

Skipperdude, there is a lot's of misunderstanding here. Your USB mic will work with Dirac for sure. In the calibration tool you can use the calibration file for you mic. That should be provided by the manufacturer of the microphone not by DIRAC!

There is no calibration curve for that microphone because it was not intended to be used for this purpose.

 

So, here is my personal experience with Dirac. First I have achieved a decent measurment with a AV Receiver "puck" microphone that was even without calibration file let's say a 95% exact in the response curve opposed to the calibrated minidsp Umik-1 I bought after. The Umik-1 came with a calibration file that I've downloaded from minidsp's web!

The difference is that your "puck" was provided for measurements and his microphone is a cardioid intended for voice.

[Kal Rubinson]

I am tempted to experiment with Dirac, but the one thing that stops me is that I feel confused about which microphone to get: could you please advise me on this question?

The answer, generally, is that any omnidirectional microphone designed for measurements and provided with calibration data will do. I have used the UMIK-1, the XTZ, both Omnimic and OmnimicV2, Earthworks DM-23 (+preamp) and a few others.

[Boris75]

The answer, generally, is that any omnidirectional microphone designed for measurements and provided with calibration data will do. I have used the UMIK-1, the XTZ, both Omnimic and OmnimicV2, Earthworks DM-23 (+preamp) and a few others.

 

Thanks for your advice. I just ordered a calibrated UMIK-1 from Cross Spectrum Labs.

 

I am looking forward to playing with Dirac (while hoping that I don't blow any tweeters).

[flak]

Thanks for your advice. I just ordered a calibrated UMIK-1 from Cross Spectrum Labs.

 

I am looking forward to playing with Dirac (while hoping that I don't blow any tweeters).

 

Hello Boris,

I think it is a good choice and I thank you for your comment

 

You will not blow your tweeters if you will simply start low and you will raise the levels so that they will be within the green area in the "Output&Levels" screen.

 

Good listenings,

Flavio

[wgscott]

For the record, I blew my tweeter with Fuzzmeasure3, not Dirac! (I was using it to verify the Dirac correction was doing what it should, and it did, btw.)

[Boris75]

You will not blow your tweeters if you will simply start low and you will raise the levels so that they will be within the green area in the "Output&Levels" screen.

 

Flavio,

 

Many thanks for your reply and your help in various threads on the forum. It is reassuring to read that Dirac has this sort of precautionary measures against tweeter. I am very (too?) nervous about damaging my equipment and tend to get worried every time, for one reason or another, there is some popping noise that goes through my speakers.

 

For now I am reading all the room-correction and Dirac-related threads and am waiting for my mike which I hope to get in about two weeks' time at which point I can start experimenting (when I can have the flat for me alone!).

 

Cheers,

Boris.

[Boris75]

For the record, I blew my tweeter with Fuzzmeasure3, not Dirac! (I was using it to verify the Dirac correction was doing what it should, and it did, btw.)

 

Thanks for this clarification. I remember that you had this problem after you started trying out Dirac but I had forgotten how exactly and was too lazy to check the relevant post

[dallasjustice]

Hello Boris,

I think it is a good choice and I thank you for your comment

 

You will not blow your tweeters if you will simply start low and you will raise the levels so that they will be within the green area in the "Output&Levels" screen.

 

Good listenings,

Flavio

 

It is the responsibility of the user to make certain their volume control is working BEFORE a sweep goes out to the speaker. DIRAC's output volume control in DLCT only works sometimes. It varies with the hardware used to send out test signal. In my case, I like to use RME HDSPE AIO soundcard. DLCT does not control output volume for this device. I must use RME totalmix to control output volume or the internal volume of the DEQX to control volume.

 

I blew my tweeter using DLCT. It was my fault. I have since learned to always use a pair of 12db barrel resistors at my amp input first to make certain I know my volume is down enough in totalmix before I send the sweep. If you measure for the first time with a device, I would caution anyone to make sure you know how to control volume before the sweep goes out. The sweep is NOT natural music. It's a test signal. So it can damage the tweeter if the level is totally unattenuated.

 

I don't blame DIRAC for my tweeter blowing up and the manufacturer replaced it for free and it measures identical to my other speaker, so no big deal.

[flak]

Hello Dallasjustice,

 

thanks for clarifying the above

Flavio

[Boris75]

 

I blew my tweeter using DLCT. It was my fault. I have since learned to always use a pair of 12db barrel resistors at my amp input first to make certain I know my volume is down enough in totalmix before I send the sweep. If you measure for the first time with a device, I would caution anyone to make sure you know how to control volume before the sweep goes out. The sweep is NOT natural music. It's a test signal. So it can damage the tweeter if the level is totally unattenuated.

 

Thanks again for your detailed explanations. How do you set or check an appropriate volume level for the Dirac Live Calibration Tool? I have read the Dirac manual but found no indication about this.

[dallasjustice]

Thanks again for your detailed explanations. How do you set or check an appropriate volume level for the Dirac Live Calibration Tool? I have read the Dirac manual but found no indication about this.

When you use it, you will see. It's pretty straight forward. There's a pink noise you can test with and a volume slider. I would make sure you have a backup way of controlling volume first before you attempt to use the DLCT slider though. That's why I used to use the resistors when I am not measuring with my DAC. Having said this, I think my situation has changed and used to be pretty unusual.

 

I used to have a totaldac. I couldn't measure with it because of the way it's clock worked with the FIFO buffer. I couldn't get a good impulse response with it. Now, I use a DEQX. I can measure with the DEQX no problem, even with 19ms of delay so that my subs properly integrate with my main R/L. My point is that if you can measure with your actual playback device and that device has a reliable volume control, then my cautionary story isn't important you. :-)

[skipperdude]

Ok, finally got my UMik-1 in the mail. Very pretty.

 

Alas, Dirac does not appear to allow Mulligans on acoustical measurements. In other words, if you've done it once, and wrong (their English-as-a-foreign-language directions notwithstanding), you're screwed.

 

That was $125 well spent.

[ckpiv]

you can re-measure as many times as you want. Not sure what you are doing to come to this conclusion?

[wgscott]

He wants a new free trial and hasn't come up with the idea of using a different email address (or just asking).

[skipperdude]

He wants a new free trial and hasn't come up with the idea of using a different email address (or just asking).

 

Lol. It's inelegant! And it feels like cheating. This Dirac thing is so messed up!

 

[Edit: In all seriousness, though, this is quite the shortcoming...you get no second chances on acoustical measurements? Really?! It's difficult to believe but given the fact that the same "filter sets" window pops up every time with the same bogus filter sets, without any other evident options, I can only assume this to be the case.

 

If I'm right about this, then, well, WTF? If I'm wrong about this, well, once again, why is it that Dirac finds it so difficult to convey what should be simple concepts (e.g., use this kind of microphone, not that kind of microphone; click here to redo your acoustical measurements, etc.?)]

 

What kind of outfit is Dirac, anyway?

[Boris75]

Lol. It's inelegant! And it feels like cheating. This Dirac thing is so messed up!

 

[Edit: In all seriousness, though, this is quite the shortcoming...you get no second chances on acoustical measurements? Really?! It's difficult to believe but given the fact that the same "filter sets" window pops up every time with the same bogus filter sets, without any other evident options, I can only assume this to be the case.

 

If I'm right about this, then, well, WTF? If I'm wrong about this, well, once again, why is it that Dirac finds it so difficult to convey what should be simple concepts (e.g., use this kind of microphone, not that kind of microphone; click here to redo your acoustical measurements, etc.?)]

 

What kind of outfit is Dirac, anyway?

 

You seem to hold a grudge against Dirac, or am I misreading you?

[skipperdude]

You seem to hold a grudge against Dirac, or am I misreading you?

 

 

I'd never heard of Dirac (the audio company, not Paul) until a week or two ago. First, I was astonished by the awful results. Then, I was astounded by the slippery salesman. Now I'm amazed by how absurd the whole thing is.

 

And, yes, I guess, annoyed. They've cost me time and $125. For no good reason, it appears.

 

I don't hold grudges, though. Life is too short.

[Boris75]

I'd never heard of Dirac (the audio company, not Paul) until a week or two ago. First, I was astonished by the awful results. Then, I was astounded by the slippery salesman. Now I'm amazed by how absurd the whole thing is.

 

And, yes, I guess, annoyed. They've cost me time and $125. For no good reason, it appears.

 

I don't hold grudges, though. Life is too short.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I have invested about the same as you did, and my mike is going to be delivered next week. I hope I am going to have better results with this software than you have experienced. Flak did not come across to me as a "slippery salesman" at all, and I got the impression from his posts that he is very knowledgeable at a technical level and that he is very helpful and takes comments seriously and professionally.

[wgscott]

I'd never heard of Dirac (the audio company, not Paul) until a week or two ago. First, I was astonished by the awful results. Then, I was astounded by the slippery salesman. Now I'm amazed by how absurd the whole thing is.

 

And, yes, I guess, annoyed. They've cost me time and $125. For no good reason, it appears.

 

I don't hold grudges, though. Life is too short.

 

I just answered your other disingenuous question in the other thread. Now I realize I am wasting my time with you. Welcome to my ignore list. Are you really this clueless, or is this just part of your game?

[skipperdude]

I just answered your other disingenuous question in the other thread. Now I realize I am wasting my time with you. Welcome to my ignore list. Are you really this clueless, or is this just part of your game?

 

Ok, this is now surreal. What's disingenuous? I now find out this company provides and uninstaller that doesn't actually uninstall its own software. This experience has cost me time and $125. What's my game? Do you work for them?

 

Oh, and yes, please put me on your ignore list. Frankly, I'm honored.

[wgscott]

The uninstaller uninstalls the application and the kernel extension. It doesn't uninstall the user's files, but you could easily do that with less typing than you spend whining cluelessly about it here.

[Kal Rubinson]

Lol. It's inelegant! And it feels like cheating. This Dirac thing is so messed up!

 

[Edit: In all seriousness, though, this is quite the shortcoming...you get no second chances on acoustical measurements? Really?! It's difficult to believe but given the fact that the same "filter sets" window pops up every time with the same bogus filter sets, without any other evident options, I can only assume this to be the case.

 

Just ignore the old filter sets. Just make new measurements and store the new "filter sets" with new names or with old names (as it will overwrite the old data. Easy peasy.

[dallasjustice]

At the top of this forum category Chris wrote, "this can be an intimidating topic." I think that was written for many folks that lack a fundamental understanding of their room/speaker interaction. I know because I've been there. I am no expert now. But I have learned.

 

Skipper,

I don't mean to be disrespectful. You need to learn about how your system works before you can appreciate very sophisticated software like DIRAC. Your defensive and embattled stance here is born from shear frustratation from seeing a FR plot of your room that you think looks horrendous. In a way it does. But many of us have seen ugly graphs that represent problems with our rooms. If you want it to be, this will be the beginning of a challenging and very rewarding journey; Much more rewarding than any other path in music reproduction.

 

You have a big challenge ahead of you. Your room walls are very narrow. You can overcome and turn your room into a musical sanctuary. But you must drop the posturing, stop looking for a quick "easy button" to press and swallow the red pill. If you do what I suggest, you'll later see the great benefit and ease of use DIRAC offers. But this hobby is not like buying expensive cars, artwork or wristwatches. You have to become knowledgeable to make your system really sing. I have only met one or two high end audio dealers that could even begin to understand 50% of what's written in this sub forum. The ones that do, charge good money for their consulting time, as they should. You are now surrounded by some folks that have swallowed the red pill and are willing to help. But the first change must come from inside of you. Your move.

 

Michael.