Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic

[beetlemania]

Ayre is involved? Does that mean I can use my QB-9 w/o having to buy the $400 device?

[beetlemania]

More info about Ayre's contribution to the PonoPlayer.

Well, that's pretty cool. I imagine that it will easily stomp the iPod and at a competitive price. But I'm not looking for a portable player. What does Pono mean in terms of expanded hi-res titles and will they play on non-Pono hardware?

[beetlemania]

Frankly, I'd be happier if I could buy 16/44.1 tracks and albums from iTunes.

I'm still trying to understand if I can buy and play files from ponomusic with having to use their player. I like to imagine that I can and that ponomusic will offer hi-rez and boatloads of popular 14/44 music.

[beetlemania]

New article posted on Time confirms 24/192.

 

Neil Young’s Pono Music Player to Cost $399 via Kickstarter Campaign - TIME

This caught my attention:

"Pono confirms the service will support “other high-resolution digital music devices,” but doesn’t specify which ones."

[beetlemania]

I'd call it unfounded, given that the most recent transfer of the Beatles tapes was at 24/96.

I agree that labjr is starting a crazy rumor but I'm pretty sure the latest remasterings were done @24/192. That's why many folks were scratching their heads at the vinyl re-issues derived from the 24/44 set.

 

EDIT: oops, didn't read thru' to firedog's post

[beetlemania]

Someone commented on the Neil Young Question thread that Mr. Young should be invited to join Computer Audiophile and participate. Bad idea. We want Mr. Young to continue to support the improvement of Sound Quality. Not run screaming into the night.

 

No doubt! Manufacturers hardly ever post on CA anymore. Why should they when they inevitably are: 1) assumed to be only in it to make the next payment on their Ferrari; or 2) harassed and belittled for their design choices.

 

I don't remember if it was on this thread or one listed in the "link backs" wherein someone wrote about Neil Young being a sell-out or something to that effect. Incivility is too often a pillar of Internet forums.

[beetlemania]

With respect ... several manufacturers have used CA to harass and belittle other companies for their design choice!

 

Would this be the same "respect" you've given Chris in this thread? And to the extent your statement might be true, it's not a mystery that each designer thinks they've made the "best" design choices, regardless of any possible motivation for financial gain.

[beetlemania]

Here's the way I look at it. Pono is a yet-to-be-fully defined product that we're intensely interested in, and most of us hope to see it done right.

 

I totally agree with how Neil Young describes the motivation for this. It's totally about the music listening experience. And if there's really no DRM, and the PONO device turns out to be a high res digital music player built by Ayre for $399, then I'm in. Just think about it: a $399 transportable music player by Ayre!

 

I'm not put off by the kickstarter approach -- this has brought a lot of terrific art and technology products into existence. So yeah there are still things that can go wrong, but no question for me that this is a horse worth betting on. I have March 15th marked on my calendar.

 

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

 

That Ayre is involved tells me that the player will sonically stomp the iPod and other such devices. Also, some of you may recall the Ayre QB-9 DSD upgrade thread from last year was derailed into a DSD flame-fest. Charles Hansen made it clear that his main reservation re: DSD was that yet another format (and resulting split in the audiophile community) would reduce the probability that hi-res files (which we all want) would ever become main-stream (or, at least, more widespread). So, his involvement here leaves me hopeful that the Pono files will be compatible with more than the Pono player. We should know more as early as this evening, certainly by week's end.

 

It's also telling that Chris, just a few months ago, tweeted that Pono was DOA because of DRM. It seems there has been a considerable shift.

 

Meanwhile, it's pretty cool that Neil Young is advocating for better sound. And if he has the labels and Springsteen/Sting/Elton John on board, than all the better. These are all positives, yes?

[beetlemania]

[*]It's a portable player, it cannot be used as a DAC.

◦ A shame when you consider the audio hardware inside.

 

From Ponmusic.com/#faq:

"The PonoPlayer has two output jacks: one is a normal mini-stereo headphone plug, and the output is specially designed for headphones or earbuds and is meant for personal listening; the second is a stereo mini-plug analog output and is specifically designed for listening on your home audio system, in your car, or as an input to your Sonos Connect, so you can share the PonoMusic experience with your friends and family. Keep in mind that your audio experience may vary depending on the capability of the audio system you use."

[beetlemania]

When I say "use it as a DAC" I mean being able to simply play audio through the device when it's connected to a computer via the USB connection, without the 128GB storage limitation.

 

Why assume it can't be used that way? It has to be connected to your PC to upload songs . . .

And if it's not a feature now, Chris says the Pono team is following this thread . . . it seems a simple feature to add before production starts.

 

I agree that lower pricing is desirable, especially if they want to appeal to the masses. CDs were horribly over-priced for years (CDs cost a fraction to manufacture compared to LPs yet the consumer paid twice as much!). And I'm perplexed that hi-res files (with no physical product, distribution chain, and brick and mortar stores) cost even more.

[beetlemania]

Has he every blind tested this? I can guarantee his 68 year old ears cant tell the difference between 192k MP3 and hi-rez lossless. I'll also guarantee if you asked him if he could tell the difference between 320kps and CD , or CD and hi-rez he'd say "Of course I can. Its like night and day!".

Pip Pip.[/color][/font]

 

I used the foobar2000 comparator (blind test) to convince myself that I wasn't just imagining the sonic superiority of hi-res files. I was able to reliably distinguish 16/44 from 24/44 (but not 24/44 from 24/192). See you back over at hydrogenaudio. Quick! Race you there!

[beetlemania]

the Pono doesn't look like it is designed to be a portable player, and anyone can already buy the music online and play it on a computer connected to a stereo.

 

Wha . . .? Some people are saying that it won't be comfortable in a pocket because of its shape (which, apparently, was to allow for better parts and reduction of RFI) but I'm not sure how a battery-powered device that easily fits in your hand is not portable.

 

You're being quite the wet blanket here. I personally have minimal need for a portable player, so I'm not likely to buy the player (tho' if I was in the market, it would be at the top of the list - the Pono is likely to sonically crush all competitors). Nevertheless, I'm quite excited about this whole project. Pono has great potential to make 24-bit the standard for new album releases and we could well see a boatload of analog-recorded material released as 24/192. Just to get 16/44 downloads would be a vast improvement from what iTunes offers. Maybe mp3s will go the way of the 8-track. And I'm also hopeful that prices of hi-res files will come down. I think Pono is a terrific development. THANKS, NEIL YOUNG!

[beetlemania]

So, Chris, did you get to listen to any prototypes? I assume you're going to let us know about your interview with NY . . .

[beetlemania]

Interview is at 4:30 PM Central. I'm doing my NY home work so-to-speak right now.

I was confused by your post that you were in flight . . . I thought you just flew home from Austin but I had it bass-ackwards.

[beetlemania]

The Pono-as-DAC option would be great as a good entry level solution. I truely hope they will consider this.

 

It's not clear to me if it can be used as a DAC, per se, but there probably is an acceptable work around. First, I wasn't certain how this device could be connected to a pre-amp, but I checked on the Cardas website, as an example, and found the "ilink" cable which goes from mini stereo plug (on the Pono player) to two RCA connections. So far, so good. The next hurdle would seem to be whether the Pono can be used in "pass-thru" mode from PC to DAC w/o having to go thru the Pono interface. But even if it can't, the worse case scenario is that you would have to pre-load a playlist from the PC to the Pono. That might be a PITA, compared to browsing the library on your PC, but seems "acceptably" workable. So, it seems to me the Pono player could be considered a $400 made-in-China Ayre DAC with a limited PC interface.

[beetlemania]

Seems like that's what he said. That would be awesome if they negotiated a deal like that. But I can't imagine the record companies agreeing to this, the way they like to perpetually resell us the same material.

I can't wait to buy the Beatles library for the 4th or 5th time!

[beetlemania]

He also said that if you buy an album at the current highest resolution, and a new, higher resolution version becomes available, you should be able to download the new, higher resolution version for free.

 

That is also what he told Audiostream!

Hello Mr. Soul: My Interview with Neil Young | AudioStream

 

I wonder if the label execs know that there is a loose cannon stirring up trouble?

[beetlemania]

Look who's already trying to capitalize:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11278[/ATTACH]

Might as well . . . Pono might eat their lunch when it launches. I think the Pono catalog will be far bigger (tho' tip of the hat to HDT for what they've done). For example, do a "Neil Young" search at HDT and see what you get back.

[beetlemania]

It is a mistake to think that we are the target. Sure, we would like new mastering. Sure, we would like lower compression. Sure, we would like 24/192 or DSD128 for everything. That is because we are already there. They are appealing to those who haven't started this journey yet. And if we list a bunch of features that appear on the $2,500 AK240, then we complain that the cost of music will be too high at $20 average album cost, then we have an internal logic disconnect on our part. This shouldn't sound "as good" as the $2,500 A/K, should it? If it does, doesn't that tell you A/K is ripping you off? We are talking about a portable device that only needs to sound better than iTunes MP3s to reach 90% of it's audience. That should make us happy, not angry.

 

This product isn't about that tiny group that buys $1,000 power supplies for our custom built CAPS music servers to play through our $3,500 DACs and the fact that we want something better than the current 24/96, 24/192 and DSD offerings. My gosh, I spent more on my remote control than the Pono costs (I use an old iPhone 4 and JRemote).

 

 

Also, from Part-time audiophile Why I love Pono (And Why You Should, Too) | Confessions of a Part-Time Audiophile

 

". . . if you’re an audiophile, Pono is not talking to you. You are welcome to play. You are invited to share. And from all the specs I’ve been looking over, you might be really happy with what’s coming. But this isn’t targeting you. Pono is trying to convert your kids. Your nieces and nephews. Your students. You know, the ones spending big on Beats headphones? Them. Pono is attempting to tell them what they’re missing. So, if it feels like they’re talking past you it’s because they are. Your job? Get one for that kid in your life you’ve been unsuccessful talking to about your hi-fi, and then pat yourself on the back for starting what you hope will be a lifelong addiction."

[beetlemania]

Anecdote: My teenage daughter has an iPod and iPad mini. She thinks her iPod connected to single crappy "speaker" sounds as good as my big rig. SMH

 

I showed her a pic of the Pono player. She said: "Cool, I want one!" Maybe there is hope . . .

[beetlemania]

Oh, your McDonald's analogy simply doesn't work. Apple gets the highest margins in the industry for their well deserved reputation as the highest quality vendor. The product graveyard is packed with iPod wanna bees that claimed to outperform or underprice the iPod.

 

I'll bet you a case of Big Macs the SQ of the Pono player will stomp any generation iPod. But, yeah, we have to wait 'til October to settle up!

[beetlemania]

Not you in particular... but it seams to me that some people here have a more glass 19 twentieths full when it comes to PONO...

 

Eloise

 

Maybe, but your steady diet of "Pono half-empty posts" have countered whatever over-enthusiasm we have had regarding what could turn out to be the best sounding portable ever made and, more importantly, a vastly increased supply of hi-res titles. And if all Pono does is get iTunes to sell 16/44, I'll call that a success. Anything else is gravy.

[beetlemania]

I'd rather have 1/8th glass of Talisker than half a glass of gravy :-)

Glad to read there's a sense of humor beneath the cynical exterior. Cheers!