Neil young announces the launch of ponomusic

[Superdad]

Kickstarter?! Really, after all this wait--and the supposed amount of money and development behind this--they are going with a Kickstarter campaign to gauge interest and fund the project?

[Superdad]

DRM is no longer part if the Pono ecosystem.

 

So little official information has ever been released about Pono. Chris, can you cite anything official about where/when DRM was part of the plan and now where they say that there will not be any DRM. Except for the snippet about allowing syncing to "other high- resolution digital music devices," I see nothing in the press release you posted that would confirm a DRM-free ecosystem. And if, as Teresa claims, Neil Young has begun saying the format will be 24/192, then there is the issue of compression (to meet the device capacity and realistic download goals), which would perhaps imply a new compression format/container needing support by s/w and h/w.

 

I am not negative of pessimistic about Pono, and I agree that mainstream exposure (to hi-res formats) will help everyone. Heck, it might even inspire/goad Apple into catching up a bit with higher quality iTunes offerings.

 

I am just bemused that they are going the crowd funding route with a KS campaign. I assume that it is the Pono player they will be trying to fund. Can't really crowd fund an entire company/technology initiative, though who knows.

 

It is also odd that they put out a press release while the Pono Music - high-quality music initiative from Neil Young site is still basically blank. I signed up on it with my e-mail address months ago and have never received a single e-mail. Not even today's press release.

 

If us cognoscenti are still confused and in the dark, then I think Mr. Young needs to hire a better publicist. All those appearances on TV talk shows holding up a PON prototype. What a waste of publicity! I can think of a dozen was such huge exposure could have been used to wake the world up to quality sound...

[Superdad]

I'll wait for UltraPono.

 

They should get U2 to sponsor a (Product)RED edition. It would be the Bono Pono.

[Superdad]

More info about Ayre's contribution to the PonoPlayer.

 

1) Ayre's custom designed and implemented digital filter. It is minimum phase, with no unnatural (digital sounding) pre-ringing. All sounds made always have reflections and/or echoes after the initial sound. There is no sound in nature that has any echo or reflection before the sound, which is what conventional linear-phase digital filters do. This is one reason that digital sound has a reputation for sounding "unnatural".

 

2) All circuitry is zero-feedback. Feedback can only correct an error after it has occurred, which means that it can never correct for all errors. By using proprietary ultra linear circuitry with wide bandwidth and low output impedance, there is no need for unnatural sounding feedback.

 

3) The DAC chip used is the ESS ES9018, widely recognized in the audio and engineering community as the best sounding DAC chip available today.

 

4) The output buffer used to drive the headphones is fully discrete so that all individual parameters and circuit values and parts quality can be fully optimized for the absolute finest sound quality. The output impedance is very low so that the Pono Player will deliver perfectly flat frequency response to any headphone made.

 

 

Hi Chris: Thanks for posting the above additional info. But I do have a couple of suggestions:

 

a) Since the text you posted is clearly a direct lift from a press release or promo sheet provided to you, I think it would have been more appropriate for you to have pasted it in either as an image of the release or with some couple word preamble such as "From a release provided by Ayre (or whoever). The way you did it makes it seem like those are your words and opinions. I know they are not since you would never make such promotional, embellished, declarative statements.

 

b) It would be good to know the source of your press releases. Are they coming from Ayre or PonoMusic?

 

c) Is there a date coming up when your non-disclosure/embargo on talking freely about the product/format/ecosystem expires? Knowing a date might end some of this endless speculation--and reduce the heat that people are putting on for/about these little leaks.

 

Have a safe trip to SXSW!

 

Alex C.

[Superdad]

Neil Young's balad for Eloise

 

"Out On The Internet"

 

Awesome Bill!

 

What I want to know is when Neil Young digital reissues of his early works will come out having some kick-ass bass! Tunes like Southern Man, Cowgirl in the Sand, and Words (Between the Lines of Age) deserve to really rock (though the 16 minute version of Words--taking up all of side 3--on Journey Through the Past is pretty good.

 

Sadly, the bass is probably not there on the original tapes. But I would not be above some careful boosting…

As a fellow NY fan, what do you think Bill?

[Superdad]

As the saying goes: CONTENT IS KING. If Apple had launched the iTunes store without having deals with all the record labels then the masses would not have shown up.

Look also to the turn-around of many cable/satellite TV channels: All the original and compelling shows they began producing a few years ago have completely reversed their fortunes.

If PONO launches with compelling content then it stands a chance. Otherwise it will just become a curiosity and then the best we can hope for is it somehow spurring the larger services to offer higher-resolution downloads. Frankly, I'd be happier if I could buy 16/44.1 tracks and albums from iTunes. I am getting tired of oredering CDs from Amazon.

[Superdad]

Anyone know if that's a rumor?

 

It is now that you have started it! Very funny. Wishful thinking.

 

Oh wait, you said "Neil Young approved versions." If he does not like the Beatles or Zep, then he might give us blank files.

[Superdad]

The funny thing is folks, there has been NO official confirmation anywhere that PONO will be 24/192. That notion--repeated by many publications on and off-line--keeps tracing back to a September 2012 article in Rolling Stone (Neil Young Expands Pono Digital-to-Analog Music Service | Music News | Rolling Stone) wherein the following completely inconclusive paragraph appeared:

 

"Pono's preservation of the fuller, analog sound already has the ear of the Big Three record labels: Warner Music Group, Universal Music Group and Sony Music. WMG – home to artists including Muse, the Black Keys, Common and Jill Scott – has converted its library of 8,000 album titles to high-resolution, 192kHz/24-bit sound. It was a process completed prior to the company's partnership with Young's Pono project last year, said Craig Kallman, chairman and chief executive of Atlantic Records."

 

Aside from the silliness of the idea that the labels may have upsampled their back catalog to 24/192 (what's the point if the tracks were put down at 24/96?), the Atlantic executive was not saying that 24/192 is what the PONO format would be.

 

Take a look around, and you will see that the RS article is THE source of the 24/192 idea. Let me know if you find other, more definitive sources. And I'm guessing that PONO won't be 24/192. Obviously, with Chris headed to SXSW, we should not have to wait too much longer to find out. Unless Mr. Young and his Pono Ponies continue to be vague.

[Superdad]

Very nice article, coming from a mainstream magazine. Raises my appraisal of Time Magazine's abilities for technical topics!

 

Nice article, but to be clear, it is NOT confirmation of 24/192 for PONO as it simply references the Rolling Stone article--the one with the inconclusive quote I pasted above.

[Superdad]

Overall I think 24/192 may be impractical. But on the other hand, even if all the of near-term content is 24/96, it might be a smart idea to enable 24/192 in hardware to get the bragging rights and really differentiate the product. Perhaps leading to more 24/192 in the long term.

 

I think you are spot on. In fact, something I read earlier today supports the idea that PONO's intention this whole time is just to do a as many deals as it can for, what will hopefully be the master tapes or original higher res files, and sell those along at whatever was the original sample rate. That sounds better to me than having the record companies do some unknown job upsampling everything to 192KHz. Of course the PONO player itself may upsample and apply Ayre's DF.

As long as the files they will be selling work with computers, I will be thrilled. The real power of PONO may be to wake up both the public, the other music services, and the record companies to the inevitability of full resolution music. Jeez, 4K ultra-def televisions are arriving and the vast majority of downloadable music is ultra-low res.

 

--AJC

 

P.S. I've been writing while listening to Julia Holter's "Loud City Song" album. She's totally new to me and the freshest thing I have heard in a while (and I cycle through a lot of new music each month). Not surprised it showed up on a wide range of eclectic "best of 2013" album lists. Check it out, but don't judge it by the first few tracks. It's a journey.

[Superdad]

Did you guys watch the video at the Ponomusic site? All the raves he got from all those musicians were from hearing PONO in his car. That must be some sound system Neil has installed in his Cadillac!

 

I'm excited--especially that he is getting people behind it and that the Pono store could be a place to buy more hi-res FLAC albums--but I am a little concerned/confused by one thing:

All those recording artists have spent a lot of time in studios--and presumably they have halfway decent systems at home--yet they raved that they have never heard anything so good as what they just heard in Neil Young's car? I am wondering--and from their voices it's not too much of a stretch--if some hi-resolution herbs were not part of the demo.

 

Again, I just have a tough time believing that not of these artists have listened to a halfway decent DAC with 24/96 files before...

[Superdad]

Also, we now all get to speculate about who is doing the software development for the desktop player/library management app.

Chris, if you read this while still at SXSW, can you probe around a bit about that?

[Superdad]

No comment on the desktop software.

 

Sorry to press you, but does that mean you know something (about the desktop s/w) you can't comment on, or that no information has been revealed to you? I suppose it does not matter either way. I'm just hoping, among other design goals, that a really great new Mac OS X player/library manager comes out of this--and not just a warmed over or customized version of some existing MOR player.

[Superdad]

This is a good thing if you love music…

 

Best,

John

 

+1 Excellent John.

 

I predict that within one year Apple will begin offering the option on the iTunes store of purchasing 16/44.1 (or higher) tracks/albums. For either a slightly higher price or as part of an Album-only deal. That's my hope. Until then, I continue to pile up CDs in my media library room after ripping.

[Superdad]

Can you ask him if Pono will have exclusive remasters? And if he's personally involved with the engineers that will be doing the remastering? Will it be closer to an MFSL or Analog productions type of operation than it is a HDtracks site. Something in between. or combination of both?

 

Good questions!

 

And I too thought Chris was on his way home. Did his miss most of SXSW? I have not followed the dates.

 

I also hope Chris with learn and share about who is developing the desktop apps for Pono.

[Superdad]

Trust me, I know numbers aren't everything, it all starts with the recording... Irrespective, I love that both of these projects have done so much to elevate this discussion outside of our community.

A year ago, it would have been hard to think two companies like Light Harmonic and Ayre would be major contributors to crowd sourced, entry level products. You've done much to create the foundation of this community, thank you! This is a great time to be an audiophile...

 

+1 Or should I say +3 since I backed all three campaigns.

Funny thing is, I probably won't use any of the devices. Rather I plan to gift them to my college-bound kids. Well, maybe the PONO will take up residence on my nightstand. Maybe they will toss in an alarm-clock function...

[Superdad]

...it is people like Chris growing communities such as this place that have played such a critical role in getting computer-based, high-resolution audio to the point where it becomes a feasible possibility to raise 2.8 million in 48 hours.

 

I think PONO may also have been good for traffic on ComputerAudiophile.com. Exactly one month ago, in a post I wrote here about rankings of audio web sites (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/should-objectivists-be-asked-leave-19349/index16.html#post298294)--showing HeadFi.org being #1 by a large margin--I noted that Alexa.com had CA's rankings at: Global rank 94,194; USA rank 64,074.

 

I just checked tonight and our happy site stands now at 84,925 Global, and 45,018 USA. That's a big jump in just one month!

Right on, and congrats Chris...

[Superdad]

BTW, I have noticed a lot of new user posts this past month. Let's all continue to be welcoming, helpful, and patient with them. Remember what our moms always told us about first impressions. We may all be the ambassadors for the future of audio…

(A frightening thought, I know! )

[Superdad]

You'd be surprised. A number of people in the music industry have stunning systems in their offices and at home. I've seen a few of them. It's great to see and gives me hope the loudness wars will end.

 

For many years, producer Rick Rubin used a Hovland HP-100 in his playback system.

[Superdad]

Another thing. I wish Neil had a great idea to supply album covers so I could collect them. To me, having a physical tangible item gives it more value. And they look cool too.

 

Great idea. We could have giant LP-sized covers (gatefolds please) with a tiny micro-SD card in a slot at the bottom!

[Superdad]

Alex - I moved your post to a new thread to keep this one more on topic.

 

Okay Chris, thanks.

 

To all: My post was to spark discussion about streaming versus file/CD purchasing and what it means for the future of music collecting. Please read/respond at the thread Chris created for my post -- http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/steaming-versus-file-cd-purchasing-19793/

 

See you there!

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

Kids buying iPads or Apple notebooks pay $400 or substantially more. And have you seen what video game consoles are running? So you can start a market at that price level. But software (content) will be critical.

 

Sorry everyone, but with 3 kids ranging 12-18, I can tell you that it is not the kids who are paying for their iPhones, Xboxes, computers, Netflix, and other content. It's us parents!

[Superdad]

Hi John:

 

I certainly can't speak for others, and I am not even sure that I can attempt to answer your question. But I will express my feelings about the idea and promise (not that they have explicitly promised) and potential of PONO. I think that PONO is getting people excited and nervous at the same time because it is the first time that the idea of CD-quality and above being available for download has gotten mainstream exposure (TV, radio, NPR, Time magazine, all over the web, etc.), and a lot of us would dearly like to see more of that.

 

Yet for me the hope (probably unfounded and not to be fulfilled) is that somehow, somewhere, ALL recorded music will become available for download at CD+ and with care/quality. If PONOMusic.com just becomes another source for reissues of back-catalog and a few new releases, I will understand, but I will be a bit disappointed. As I and others have said before, the big hope is that PONO's modest success (and its thawing of the ice with the record companies) will somehow motivate Apple to offer CD+ albums as a choice--for all music. Unless and until that happens, I will continue to purchase--albums of all the new artists I discover--on polycarbonate (or vinyl once in a while). It takes a fair amount of room to keep storing the physical media, but at some point I will peruse and purge some ancient stuff to make more room.

[Superdad]

Why is nobody talking about the elephant in the room?: The success of iTunes (and I guess of the streaming services though I have never looked deep into the Spotify catalog) is based, in large part, on the fact that they offer albums from any artist you can think of.

 

I buy CDs because I want the quality, but I can tell you without looking that of the 130 CDs I bought in the past year, no more than about 20 of those are available for download (at Redbook or above). That's not to say that I did not purchase my share of high-res downloads this past year. But the reissue market (which makes up the bulk of HDTracks catalog) is not going to draw enough people--to PONO or any other endeavor--to make a hi-res download store the first place people look for their music.

 

While I have said before (even just again last night if I recall), that I hope something motivates Apple to offer CD+ albums as a choice, maybe I am pinning hopes on the wrong company. Maybe it will be Amazon--who daily ships more CDs than anyone else in the world--that seizes the opportunity to sell full-res-plus albums.

[Superdad]

 

Time will tell, but from my POV I've seldom seen an invention that appeared more certain to be a commercial failure than Pono...

 

Well, given that the PONO Kickstarter campaign looks likely to hit $5 million within the next couple of days--with still another 2.5 weeks to go--I'd say that the facts have already proven you wrong.