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Dynaudio BM12A's?


ajmcl05
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I was wondering whether anyone here has any experience of these? I have the opportunity to get hold of a pair at a very good discount (25%) and have considered going 'active' for a while. Presently i'm using cyrus8 (80W per channel) amp to dynaudio 52s... so i'm predisposed to dynaudio.

 

I will not be using them as desk-top monitors but in my main listening room. I have heard and like the BM6's... so is the sound from the BM12s as good? Would they be more suitable for main room listening vs what i already have? I would like a little more power behind my speakers and i'm not really a fan of floorstanders...

 

Any thoughts/experience would be much appreciated.

 

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I have heard them locally. They would be a great match for your main listening room especially with the 8" woofer, more output overall. They are very similar in sound to the BM6As with more bass. If you like the BM6A's I think the BM12A's would be a perfect solution for you.

 

david is hear[br]http://www.tuniverse.tv

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I have a hard time believing that the amplification in even a good powered monitor could match your Cyrus 8 amp let alone beat it, plus your upgrade path is essentially zero with powered speakers (many of which are bi-amped) unless you do internal surgery. Your Cyrus 8 gives you a lot of flexibility, plus it is nice and compact, and is set up for bi-wiring. As far as Dynaudio goes for speakers, I don't think you could go too far wrong, but I would go passive. Another nice match for the Cyrus 8 would be the Epos M-12i. Among the systems that I have is a Cyrus 6vs with Epos M12.2 speakers and the match is superb.

 

Rob Martin

 

desktopaudioboutique.com

 

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... And my apologies for not responding earlier.

 

@ davidR - thanks for that, I was concerned that the bass response may be softer, or looser than with the smaller drivers on the BM6As.

 

@Rob - your comments surprise me a little. These monitors have better tweeters (same as in contour range) than those in my dynaudio 52s and the woofers are larger too. In addition they are driven by four seperate, dedicated amps. To get Cyrus ouput of that power I'd need two power amps and still have lower spec speakers. This would cost around double the cost of the monitors too.

 

Also I can recoup some costs from selling the 52s. Usually the BM12As are ca £1300, the combined cost of my Cyrus 8 and 52s was ca £1400. I can get the 12s at £800... So around £600 net. Seems good to me given that proaudio gear nearly always gives greater bang per buck than non - you aren't paying for cosmetics to the same extent.

 

Anyway, in light of all that I'd be interested to hear your response since you seem very dismissive of monitors in your initial reply. Not trying to pick a fight, just want to understand your comments more clearly.

 

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... And my apologies for not responding earlier.

 

@ davidR - thanks for that, I was concerned that the bass response may be softer, or looser than with the smaller drivers on the BM6As.

 

@Rob - your comments surprise me a little. These monitors have better tweeters (same as in contour range) than those in my dynaudio 52s and the woofers are larger too. In addition they are driven by four seperate, dedicated amps. To get Cyrus ouput of that power I'd need two power amps and still have lower spec speakers. This would cost around double the cost of the monitors too.

 

Also I can recoup some costs from selling the 52s. Usually the BM12As are ca £1300, the combined cost of my Cyrus 8 and 52s was ca £1400. I can get the 12s at £800... So around £600 net. Seems good to me given that proaudio gear nearly always gives greater bang per buck than non - you aren't paying for cosmetics to the same extent.

 

Anyway, in light of all that I'd be interested to hear your response since you seem very dismissive of monitors in your initial reply. Not trying to pick a fight, just want to understand your comments more clearly.

 

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Before I go anywhere with this subject, let me ask the most important question. What are you running for source, what connection, and what type of files? Now I will continue on the subject at hand.

1) Cyrus builds some of the best solid state amplification that I know of. One of their hallmarks is detail and transparency but with musicality, which is not always a hallmark of a good set of truly professional active studio monitors which are built for work, not play. Also, the Cyrus has a remote and lots of inputs, the PSX-R power supply can be added, plus you can play with speaker wire which can make a difference in the sound. I grant you that the XLR connection is considered superior to the RCA, but only if your DAC has XLR out. The options for RCA cables is far greater though.

2) In many cases "pro-audio" is not "pro" at all but just another way of marketing a consumer product. It bogles my mind what is touted as "audiophile" today, not that I am saying the BM12As are not audiophile quality.

3) You mention bi-amping, power, specs, and tweeter type which are ultimately meaningless if you don't like the sound. Some of the best sounding amps have very low power, and unimpressive specs. Some of the best speakers have no tweeters at all.

4) You mention you are predisposed to Dynaudio, but be also open minded. There may be better matches for your Cyrus than the 52s, but only your ears will determine that. System synergy is more important than having the latest 5 star flavour of the week gear. I maintain that if you can try the Epos M12i on good stands with or without the PSX-R power supply you may be pleasantly surprised.

5) The BM12As can be run with a Dynaudio sub which could make a pretty impressive system ( I am a big fan of subs), however it appears on the BM12s the only option is line level connection, which as generally considered by the audio community, and in my experience not to be as good as a speaker level connection.

6) From a purely physics point of view I find it amusing that much research, time, effort and money is spent on isolating one component from another (and for good reason) but with powered monitors everything is all jammed in one box right next to two vibrating drivers, not to mention the heat generated if they have discrete amplifiers.

7) As you no doubt know, powered monitors were originally designed for studio work, and not long term listening. Many true studio monitors can be fatiguing to listen to over long listening sessions. This was told to me by a recording professional who personally owns Genelecs which are one of the best in business. Another reason and possibly the biggest reason recording engineers use powered monitors is for their portability, and that is probably the one biggest reason they exist in the first place.

8) Another principal that is partially missed with powered monitors is the "audio hierarchy" of importance. Source first, then amp (or amp and source being equals which is my belief), then speakers.

Case in point: I had a set of Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s on a good budget amp and they sounded lackluster, but when I changed the amp to my 6vs the improvement was quite noticeable.

 

The reason I made my post was not to pick a fight, but just to give you an alternative view, and hopefully broaden your options, maybe even save you some money. As you can see, I am a dealer, but none of the brands I mentioned are sold by me at this time, so this is not a sales pitch which Chris rightfully does not allow on this forum. I am truly interested in what your final decision will be, so keep us posted.

 

Rob Martin

 

desktopaudioboutique.com

 

 

 

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Most amplifiers and speakers are made to maximise compatibility, therefore compromises are made. With Active monitors the amplifers only have the one drive unit to drive, and they can be optimised for just that, by the people who are making the speaker - who better to pick the amplifier for the job.

 

Passive Speakers performance vary hugely with the amplifier selection, and there is all the hi-fi fun of changing them, but to be honest, who many combinations of these will better a set of active monitors for the same money, or even 1/2 the price? I have gone this route myself, yes you'll need a decent pre-amp, preferably with balanced outputs, and I believe some of the same hi-fi rules apply with stands, set-up (monitors are often configurable for room conditions though), and most surprisingly to me cables, but I run a pair of Mackie HR624 active monitors, and you'd have to prise them out of my cold dead hands before I'd change them for "hi-fi" speakers of less than 5k UKP.

 

They come in different flavours, don't like Genelecs myself as I find that they're a bit shouty and, yes quite probably fatiguing but I'd decided I didn't like them before that set in, and I've not heard many different types. If I was looking to change them I'd look at Dynaudio, Acoustic Energy and Mackie again.

 

Good luck if you decide to go with the Dynaudios, I very much doubt you'll be disappointed. Mine are classified as near field monitors as I listen near field and in a small room. Monitors are less forgiving of lots of reflective sound I've found, at nfm size at least; bigger mid field types are probably better for bigger rooms but my experience is hardly exhaustive and there'll be people better placed tham me to advise sorry.

 

Cheers

 

Taking a lot of FLAC

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I would go for the active speakers. Let us know how they sound in comparison to your current setup. I suspect the active speakers will be a significant notch above your current system, although I have no experience with either.

It is my understanding that going active is far superior to passive with much higher priced amplifiers. Intermodulation distortion is much reduced, and more power is available to each driver making amplifier overload a non issue as opposed to passive designs. Speakers are the source of most distortion and going active reduces and/or elliminates much of this. Too much money and amplifier effort is wasted pushing current through coils, capacitors and resistors.

Dollar for dollar going active is a huge leap in sound quality. This is especially important for those with limited budgets and frugal audiophiles such as myself.

I will be going active in the future. I heard the new LINN Majik 109 speakers in an active six amplifier set up and was convinced that this is the way to go.

Have a look at the new Dynaudio Focus 110A. This is an active speaker that I am planning on auditioning myself soon.

 

PJH

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Rob,

I agree that when the amp and speakers are matched that the result can be magic. So who best to match an amp to the speakers but a competent speaker manufacturer. There is no denying that taking the crossover out of the speaker and placing it after the preamplifier results in much better sound. Why spend so much money on an overdesigned amplifier capable of running most speaker designs.

Reviewers with active speakers would only be able to review sources and preamps, not amplifiers, not speakers and speaker cables. Dealers would loose out on margins gained from selling amps, speakers, and cables if active was more popular.

LINN, NAIM, and Meridian all have active options and these are three of the largest, oldest, and well respected manufacturers who preach the sonic gains achievable by going active.

Personally I wish there were more choices in active systems and speakers available.

 

PJH

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I would recommend keeping your present amp and looking at Dyn's Excite or Focus lines. The Excite basically replaced the Audience. Although the price point between the Excite and Audience is similar, the Excite is just more refined. They are also very easily driven.

If you have to have active speakers, check out the Focus 110 A's. These are Dyn's "consumer" active speakers. Their MSRP is $2450 (US). They are going to have a much more refined sound than the BM12A's. I'm not a fan of active speakers, but these babies do sing.

I'm a Dynaholic.

 

Aaron H

 

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  • 2 months later...

Companies like Cyrus specialize in amplifiers, DACs, and CD players; that is what they do best, and in their respective price range they are one of the best on the planet. Dynaudio is one of the top speaker makers on the planet; that is their specialty. Buy your amp from an amp maker, your speakers from a speaker maker etc. I agree with Timpy, that some care must be taken in matching amp to speakers, but totally disagree that a separate amp is "compromised" because of the variety of speakers that could be connected to it. A more accurate term would be "maximized". Another fact is that some very good amps on the market are not tolerant of the wrong speaker being hooked up to them, yet matched with the right speakers, the synergy between the two can be magic. Generally speaking, most speaker and amp makers products are compatible with one another, not because they are compromising, but because they are co-operating. That is why you see very few speakers out there with an average impedance outside 4-8 ohms. Most amps have no problem with these loads. The main concern is matching amp and speakers sonically, and for that we have most importantly our ears, and secondly reviews and forums. I know of no audio reviewer on the net or in print that uses active monitors as a reference, and if there is one he is in a hundred to one minority and probably caters to the pro-audio community. This may be a sidetrack, but worth mentioning, but in my opinion, some of the best and most uncompromising audio gear is made by "cottage" companies who are building products where the main driver is passion, not the bean counters in office #3. Most, if not all companies making powered speakers are big players having their products mass produced in China (where most of our jobs have gone, never to return). True pro-audio powered monitors for the most part were designed for recording music, component stereo equipment was designed for listening to music. If any product is compromised, it is the latest crop of "hi-fi" powered monitors in order to cater to the largest crowd. They also have far less flexibility. The computer you are reading this on in made of many parts from many companies, yet they work together, yet I have never heard anyone say their parts are compromised in order to work together. Componant stereo systems whose "parts" are from different manufacturers are more or less no different.

 

Rob

 

desktopaudioboutique.com

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

I heard these speaker and I prefer so much the older ones , the BM15A, better loudspeaker and I believe that have better amps (A/B amps inside)

 

Mac Mini >Amarra Mini>Apogee MiniDAC>Ars Sonum Filarmonia SXE>Quad ESL 2805[br]www.susoramallo.com[br]

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All I can say is that I moved away from some esoteric American speakers and large valve mono blocks to a pair of active Dynaudio Air monitors - I will never look back.

 

To me my monitors are amazing and cost a fraction of the interconnects I was using with my other kit. I'm sold on active monitors - period.

 

Location: Manchester\'ish - UK. System: iMac, YellowTec PUC2 Lite, Genelec 7270A sub, 2 x 8240A monitors, a Drobo and Vovox cables.

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But keep in mind that some Monitors are very direct which can cause ear fatigue especially if you listen over a longer period. I think that the Dynaudios perform well in this regard, but this is highly personal.

Also they are rather designed for nearfield, so I dont know how they perform farther away.

 

I'm going to buy them this week (As PC Setup).

 

Regards, Matt

 

 

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Monty,

I am curious as to what esoteric American speakers and what large valve mono blocks you moved away from in favour of active monitors. I hope you have not come to the conclusion that all esoteric American speakers and large valve mono blocks are inferior to your active monitors. Many factors can adversely effect the sound of otherwise great sounding gear. Some of the best audio I have heard in my 30 years in audio, both professionally and as a consumer is a system with an American made flea powered SET amp with efficient American made single driver speakers and matching sub. It did not cost an arm and leg and the interconnects between amp and DAC cost $125, the speaker wire $150, and the USB cable $60. The sub is fed it's signal via speaker level which is how it should be done for music. A lot of otherwise great gear gets a bad rap, due to poor system matching, poor audio furniture, and poor room acoustics among other things. I also think we should be open minded in our choice of audio gear and not put a "period" to anything in this hobby until we are deaf or dead.

 

Rob

 

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Hi Rob,

 

Perhaps it would be unwise for me to name either the speaker or amp manufacturers given I detect a "sensitivity" to my use of the word "period".

 

I did not come to the conclusion that all esoteric American speakers are inferior to my current monitors... but I did come to the conclusion that a series of monitors (I tried more than Dynaudio) really did out perform the set up I had at that time and the active monitors I auditioned were more to my liking.

 

I have learnt that room acoustics is one of the most fundamental aspects that we need to try and get right, to get the "best" from our listening.

 

Cheers,

 

Monty

 

 

 

 

 

Location: Manchester\'ish - UK. System: iMac, YellowTec PUC2 Lite, Genelec 7270A sub, 2 x 8240A monitors, a Drobo and Vovox cables.

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Monty wrote:

"... but I did come to the conclusion that a series of monitors (I tried more than Dynaudio) really did out perform the set up I had at that time and the active monitors I auditioned were more to my liking."

 

Me too. Moved from Densen Beat B100 integrated and Passive Linn Kabers to Mackie HR624 Mk1.

 

Cheers

 

Taking a lot of FLAC

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Count me in.

Just received my active Dynaudio Focus 110A speakers.

My spouse and I both conclude that these are far more real sounding, more pleasing, more dynamic, clearer, and highly adictive compared to my Simaudio W4070SE amp and Energy Veritas 2.2i three way monitors.

This is the end of the search for better sound and these little beuties aren't even broken in yet.

 

PJH

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Congratulations!!!

 

I'm pleased you are enjoying your active monitors - promise you will spend some time on getting the most out of them by playing around with positioning and room acoustics.

 

 

 

Location: Manchester\'ish - UK. System: iMac, YellowTec PUC2 Lite, Genelec 7270A sub, 2 x 8240A monitors, a Drobo and Vovox cables.

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I promise. The imaging or instrument placement isn't quite there yet and I know it is a speaker placement or room issue. That's the only thing left to other than new interconnects.

 

PJH

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Interconnects.... oh boy I'd really better be careful I how phrase this one :-)

 

I can recommend two: Vovox and Zaolla... I'd be 100% confident that you can buy either of these and be very pleased!

 

 

 

Location: Manchester\'ish - UK. System: iMac, YellowTec PUC2 Lite, Genelec 7270A sub, 2 x 8240A monitors, a Drobo and Vovox cables.

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  • 2 weeks later...

PJH,

How are your new speakers working out? Could you tell us what your room size and speaker placement are? I am currently running active monitors myself (Quad 11L) and am very interested in the Dynaudios. Also, could you tell me the measurements of the mid/bass driver, (possibly both radiating area and total size to outside of flexible surround). Reviews of Focus 110 give various numbers. I live in Alaska and the Dynaudio dealer in Seattle does not stock much gear. Any other thoughts on these speakers would be appreciated.

Regards,

Charlie

 

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