Observations on the audio opinions of the unwashed masses

[mwheelerk]

I'm interested in knowing just how closely the opinions shared by your little groups mirror your own.

[Kimo]

I'm interested in knowing just how closely the opinions shared by your little groups mirror your own.

 

1. I would call it a tie between vinyl and high res, but I would give the nod to vinyl over 16 bit. That being said, I have a few CDs that sound an awful lot like their vinyl counterpart, Jeff Beck The Late 60s for example, so I am inclined to go with the preferred mastering. My vinyl collection is pretty small.

 

2. I am a fan of 24 bit and SACD.

 

3. I have not had much luck with Class A/B or Class D solid state amps. Tubes tend to sound more alive. Some speakers certainly do better with tubes than others, but cheap tube amps never seem to cut it.

 

4. I am pretty much done with fancy cables. I might be inclined to go with all silver, but not at current prices. I rather put the money into the amp, speakers, or music.

 

5. Single driver speakers clearly have some advantages in sound. They typically do better with tubes.

 

6. SET gets the nod over push/pull. Push/pull can sound a bit blurred, but the extra power can be helpful. SET is a crap shoot. I am intrigued by the Quad KT66 integrated.

 

7. NOS tubes often do perform better, but they can't save an amp from crummy transformers or design.

 

8. Floor standers generally are preferred over smaller book shelf speakers.

[wgscott]

Do you think there is any chance your opinions might have influenced theirs?

[gmgraves]

Over the years I have invited a few friends and acquaintances to audition various incarnations of my audio playback system. Nary an audiophile in the bunch, but the group has included boys and girls, young and old, big fans and little fans.

 

Their responses have been fairly consistent in terms of their audio preferences.

 

1. Vinyl almost always beats digital. It really doesn't matter how expensive or high quality the digital may be, or mediocre the vinyl rig may be (a modest system made of Sota, Ortofon, and Avid at the moment). Almost no one seems to prefer the digital presentation. A few have picked the digital alternative, but only because their stated objection to any noise in vinyl playback, not because the overall presentation pleased them more.

 

2. High resolution never seems to impress, until I switch to CD and then back to high res. The usual comment is that the high res version sounds smoother and clearer. I never hear much in the way of less harsh or more natural.

 

3. Tubes almost always trump solid state. The Pass Labs Class A amp has held its own, but it is a the lone exception.

 

4. Even when cable swaps display an immediate change, no one seems to care one bit.

 

5. Single driver speakers are often preferred by women.

 

6. SET gets the nod over push/pull.

 

7. NOS tubes don't mean much.

 

8. Floor standers generally are preferred over smaller book shelf speakers.

 

While my set ups haven't necessarily deployed the best of the best, the following have graced the dance floor; Audio Research, Ayre, Art Audio, Benchmark, Bryston, Cambridge, Dynaudio, Fi, First Watt, Gill Audio, Leben, Marsh, Magnum Dynalab, Naim, Ortofon, Omega PS Audio, Rega, Scott, Tannoy, Triangle, and Vandersteen, and a few others. The point is that the equipment quality has not been weighted in one direction.

 

In a nutshell, it appears that the average listener, at least the ones occupying my part of the world, display a preference for vinyl and tube distortion and bigger bass. Note, alcohol was not deployed to alter the curve, or anything else.

 

Thank goodness I know more about this stuff than they do.

 

My experience is quite different. the vast majority of my friends are NOT audiophiles in any way, shape, or form. When it comes to sound, some can hear the difference between good and mediocre sound, and some can't. But the thing that lumps both camps together is that whether they can hear the differences in sound or not, none give a good goddamn! Most of my friends say that as long as they can hear the "tune" they don't care what it sounds like. None of them would even be interested in listening for things like the difference between vinyl and digital, or tube vs. SS, or push/pull vs. SET. They just don't care. One friend said that he appreciated the difference between a decent stereo system and just a cheap receiver and a pair of speakers, but wasn't interested in spending even one penny to achieve that level of reproduction. Most of these people are smart, well educated, upward mobile professionals, but they aren't passionate about music at all, but are, rather, what I would call, "casual listeners". That seems to be what makes me an audiophile and them apathetic to the entire thing.

[kumakuma]

My experience is quite different. the vast majority of my friends are NOT audiophiles in any way, shape, or form. When it comes to sound, some can hear the difference between good and mediocre sound, and some can't. But the thing that lumps both camps together is that whether they can hear the differences in sound or not, none give a good goddamn! Most of my friends say that as long as they can hear the "tune" they don't care what it sounds like. None of them would even be interested in listening for things like the difference between vinyl and digital, or tube vs. SS, or push/pull vs. SET. They just don't care. One friend said that he appreciated the difference between a decent stereo system and just a cheap receiver and a pair of speakers, but wasn't interested in spending even one penny to achieve that level of reproduction. Most of these people are smart, well educated, upward mobile professionals, but they aren't passionate about music at all, but are, rather, what I would call, "casual listeners". That seems to be what makes me an audiophile and them apathetic to the entire thing.

 

I think it comes down to whether music is something to be played in the background or an integral part of your life.

[Kimo]

Do you think there is any chance your opinions might have influenced theirs?

 

Probably. Their overwhelming preference for vinyl and just about any old tube amp doesn't reflect mine though. Their relative disinterest in high res certainly had me scratching my head.

 

I have tried some of the Peter Belt tweaks, and some have worked, in their way, I suppose. For example, the notes on the speaker tweak played out as they said it would. The paper under the 3 feet one didn't appear to affect anyone's perception, however.

 

Listening #113 | Stereophile.com

[Kimo]

My experience is quite different. the vast majority of my friends are NOT audiophiles in any way, shape, or form. When it comes to sound, some can hear the difference between good and mediocre sound, and some can't. But the thing that lumps both camps together is that whether they can hear the differences in sound or not, none give a good goddamn! Most of my friends say that as long as they can hear the "tune" they don't care what it sounds like. None of them would even be interested in listening for things like the difference between vinyl and digital, or tube vs. SS, or push/pull vs. SET. They just don't care. One friend said that he appreciated the difference between a decent stereo system and just a cheap receiver and a pair of speakers, but wasn't interested in spending even one penny to achieve that level of reproduction. Most of these people are smart, well educated, upward mobile professionals, but they aren't passionate about music at all, but are, rather, what I would call, "casual listeners". That seems to be what makes me an audiophile and them apathetic to the entire thing.

 

Indeed, I certainly didn't convert anyone into an audiophile, but I didn't turn them off either.

 

Then again, I have turned several people onto Vince Gironda's 8 x 8 program, and everyone of them experienced virtually immediate and consistent results. None have been willing to stick with it, however. Even after seeing their body change as never before, they can't commit to an old school program.

[bluesman]

Alcohol can only help so much.

You're clearly drinking the wrong stuff.

 

[InfernoSTi]

Alcohol can only help so much.

 

You're clearly drinking the wrong stuff.

 

 

Alcohol can only help... So much!

 

Fixed!

[jtm]

I think it comes down to whether music is something to be played in the background or an integral part of your life.

 

I think you nailed it !

[sandyk]

I think you nailed it !

 

Unfortunately, with some spouses that can be a real problem. Many wives prefer to have the listening volume at such a low level that they can carry on a normal conversation. I passed on some of my superseded gear to my brother, and that's what happened, with decent 2 way bookshelf speakers placed on the carpet too.

[wgscott]

Which are more anathema to true audiophiles, rationalists or wives?

[Kimo]

Which are more anathema to true audiophiles, rationalists or wives?

 

Rational wives?

[audiojim]

Cartier-Bresson's a great person to illustrate what we discuss in audio, but I'm not so sure he would have preferred vinyl over other media had he been into music. He was a "street photographer" - he captured and archived what was happening to ordinary people so all could appreciate, understand and admire it. He prized usability, convenience and reliability in his equipment because capturing the content he wanted was his only goal.

 

He always used Leica rangefinders, so he was clearly concerned about the technical quality of his equipment. I think the quote you use was probably making the point that sacrificing focus for timely capture of the moment was a satisfactory trade-off, although he preferred both whenever possible. He was deeply concerned about the technical quality of his prints (most done for him by Voja Mitrovic or Pablio Inirio, although he printed his own in the '30s). So I think he'd have embraced digital photography because it makes doing his thing that much easier and more effective.

 

Similarly, I suspect he'd have embraced digital audio were he a music lover. He'd have used the best and smallest digital recorder he could get to record local performances, and he would have had the best mastering lab he could find turn them into high res digital files.

 

BTW, his first love was painting - he described photography as a window into art, and he went back to painting when he stopped taking pictures. He put his Leica into his home safe and never used it again.

 

Pierre Assouline's biography of HCB is a great read.

 

I think this post is insightful.

 

What I was going to say, also, is that I read the HCB comment as generally meaning that the soul and essence is more important than technical fidelity to some objective norm of what is being portrayed in the photo. Now, for me, that means the music performance (not even the recording , nor the playback system) is what at issue here -- give me a soulful player over a technician any day. In other words the "art" (performance ) of HCB was the composition of the photo, lighting, and such; for music the art (performance) is the underlying music being played , not the recording or playback. So, I don't think his comment supports tubes vs ss.

[audiojim]

On the topic of the thread I have found that 95% of people can't hear any differnce or , a bit more common , just don't really care even if they hear a differnce . It's so easy to see when someone "gets it", but that's not my usual experience.

 

Sad to say, but most people would have more much much much More fun being wowed by home theatre killer sound scape thrills than , say, the uncanny in the room-ness of a jazz trip percussion and such .

[crisnee]

 

Sad to say, but most people would have more much much much More fun being wowed by home theatre killer sound scape thrills than , say, the uncanny in the room-ness of a jazz trip percussion and such .

 

I'm not sure that it's sad, except maybe in the sense that many (most?) folks seem to be seeking thrills and quick fixes more then say true art or anything that takes a bit of time and effort to understand. Never mind, that is sad.

 

Chris

[Paul R]

Which are more anathema to true audiophiles, rationalists or wives?

 

Neither one of course, as both are necessary to support being an audiophile, at least for those of us who are married

 

Rationalism to avoid bankruptcy or a mental breakdown trying to find the perfect sound. A wife to love you not in spite of being an audiophile, but because you are one, among the many many other things that each of us are.

 

The true nemesis of the audiophile is that person, whomever they may be, who has seen the "truth" and is in a evangelical fervor to convert the ignorant fools who love high res music, or whatever the kick of the week is. Those are not rationalists, they are more like high functioning sociopaths. Or sometimes Marketeers. Or people horribly disappointed in something, even to the point of suffering from depression.

 

Quite sadly, these people are to be found in every human endeavor. Learning how to deal with them without loosing all the joy one finds in any given endeavor- be it hobby, recreation, occupation, calling, or vocation is just a necessary part of growing up. I am sure others here can say that far better than I, and have. (REShaman perhaps? Or a couple of the pastors on the site?) But it is an essential and unavoidable part of life. I almost said "modern life", but I suspect this unpleasant fact of life has been with us as long as their have been people.

[wgscott]

Many wives prefer to have the listening volume at such a low level that they can carry on a normal conversation.

 

No one else finds these kinds of gratuitous sexist comments objectionable?

[crisnee]

Originally Posted by sandyk

Many wives prefer to have the listening volume at such a low level that they can carry on a normal conversation.

 

No one else finds these kinds of gratuitous sexist comments objectionable?

 

You mean as objectionable as waf?

 

Chris

[Paul R]

Originally Posted by sandyk

Many wives prefer to have the listening volume at such a low level that they can carry on a normal conversation.

 

 

 

You mean as objectionable as waf?

 

Chris

 

You prefer SOAF?

 

If I used that term in speaking of Karen, she might add an "A"'to the end of it. Then she would probably make a concerted effort to make an end to me!

[REShaman]

No one else finds these kinds of gratuitous sexist comments objectionable?

 

 

Depends on the context.

 

Your child’s, wife’s, friend’s expression, voice tone, interrupts the music you’re involved in: Who are you in the moment? Audiophile? Dad? Husband? Best friend? Most times, my wife regards me as all three. My wife is smart in the heart. She is brilliant both cognitively and emotionally. She hears what is stated or acted out; and also what may be underneath my overt behavior. She puts on her X-ray glasses.

 

An unscheduled phone call, the voice mail answers; it’s a troubled client, I pick up instead of the voice mail. I chose: The hot pizza just delivered is going to be eaten cold (or reheated later). I turn off the music I am listening to.

 

I regard a musician as one with both musicality and technique. Technical excellence however impressive without the musicality does not move me. In my opinion, Julian Bream and Segovia always do. John Williams, sometimes not (though technically excellent).

 

Loving and being loved is the highest priority in my view. I am the center, open to receive, free to give, and responsible for what I take in and give out.

 

The love I take is equal to the love I make, say the Beatles. Say I. Music for me is a currency, channel, connection to and for all elements of our humanity.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

[bluesman]

Depends on the context... Loving and being loved is the highest priority in my view. I am the center, open to receive, free to give, and responsible for what I take in and give out. The love I take is equal to the love I make, say the Beatles. Say I. Music for me is a currency, channel, connection to and for all elements of our humanity.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard

That's a beautiful post, Richard! And you touch on something I think is a key to the survival of sanity and civilized behavior in our progressively harsher world: people need to be able to express themselves and their feelings - if they won't or can't, they stagnate and become insufferable. Music is a way of communicating, as are all forms and expressions of art. Sport for sport's sake is another such endeavor (as opposed to sport for the sake of winning), and there are undoubtedly many many more. Those who have constructive ways of expressing their feelings, thoughts and beliefs seem to me to be life's winners, and those fortunate enough to have others in their lives with whom they can interact are the most pleasant and balanced of all.

 

Neither one of course, as both are necessary to support being an audiophile, at least for those of us who are married .

And the rational spouse is the sine qua non. Now, take my wife...please! [For those of you too young to know that joke, Google "Henny Youngman"] After 5 years of marriage to an apartment-bound audiophile, she correctly figured out on her own that a pair of Stax phones would solve multiple problems for both of us. This was an amazing feat for someone who kept her records (unrestrained by sleeves or jackets) on her floor when I met her, necessitating a second turntable so we could play hers (which was akin to decoding the surface of a pizza). She had no idea there were such things as electrostatic headphones, let alone that they cost as much as some very nice pieces of jewelry - and she found them for me for my 30th birthday. And I learned that some people like jewelry as much as some other people like music. I never wouldda figured that out without her.....

 

Here's to the rational spouse or significant other!

 

 

David

[Teresa]

Many wives prefer to have the listening volume at such a low level that they can carry on a normal conversation.

 

No one else finds these kinds of gratuitous sexist comments objectionable?

 

I do also find the comments sexist and objectionable, however to his credit he did say "many" not "all".

 

As a female who talks a lot, I recognize talking and listening to music for pleasure as two distinctly different activities. If I am engaging in conversation then the music must be at a low "background" level, if I am listening to music solely for pleasure then I prefer a more realistic level and I discourage any talking. If your wife or husband is trying to talk to you perhaps it is time to turn the music down or even turn the music off?

[Paul R]

If your wife or husband is trying to talk to you perhaps it is time to turn the music down or even turn the music off?

 

 

Well said!

[asindc]

5. Single driver speakers are often preferred by women.

 

I can't imagine why that would be so.