Jump to content
IGNORED

Vinyl Conversion


Harpy

Recommended Posts

It is impossible to reproduce the original sine wave perfectly (whether it can be reproduced as accurately as audible, will remain a debate).

 

You realize of course that almost all music released has been into a digital editing package such as ProTools at some point even if it is finally released on vinyl.

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

Link to comment

I record vinyl and with my Lavry AD11 captured 96kHz/24bit to sound amazing when compared to the CD. This is all relative to the press, pressing, mastering engineer of the LP of coarse. I look for records that are prior to 1985 to ensure a all analog from start to finish if possible. Also I look for who mastered the LP and finding out which is the best press US/UK etc. All LP's today come from either CD master or a hi-res digital master. Its sad that nothing is analog all the way through anymore. There are only a handful of engineers "through out the world" that even have the equipment necessary to produce pure analog.

Link to comment
as far as what i have read, no. i know what i know and that is enough for me..i have better things to waste my time on. the facts that i do know is as deep as i will ever care to go into it.

 

You have been pointed to a number of good sources to expand and deepen your knowledge of 'computer audio'. If you don't want to take advantage of those opportunities to read, and know more, that's fine. But, don't then act like you have a corner on the 'truth'. You have our opinions based on limited knowledge, like most of us. But there are lots of folks here on CA who know a good deal about the subject(s). Better to just listen and learn, or go do something else...

 

 

I have no desire to become someone who can debate or present facts on the topic beyond the fundamental facts that I am already aware of...you will need to find someone else to debate with.

 

Ok, but you are debating, and, to be frank, it kind of looks like you are bringing a knife to a machine gun fight ! Not pretty :(

Link to comment
sounds subjective to me....

as far as what i have read, no. i know what i know and that is enough for me..i have better things to waste my time on. the facts that i do know is as deep as i will ever care to go into it. I have no desire to become someone who can debate or present facts on the topic beyond the fundamental facts that I am already aware of...you will need to find someone else to debate with.

 

And, therefore, the point of posting the above is??? :(

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

Link to comment
You have been pointed to a number of good sources to expand and deepen your knowledge of 'computer audio'. If you don't want to take advantage of those opportunities to read, and know more, that's fine. But, don't then act like you have a corner on the 'truth'. You have our opinions based on limited knowledge, like most of us. But there are lots of folks here on CA who know a good deal about the subject(s). Better to just listen and learn, or go do something else...

 

 

 

 

Ok, but you are debating, and, to be frank, it kind of looks like you are bringing a knife to a machine gun fight ! Not pretty :(

 

The only things I stated as fact are fact, and no one can dispute otherwise.

If it is an opinion i will state such.

 

Is there a statement i said was fact that you disagree with?

I suppose you believe a digital signal is a sine wave too?

Link to comment
I was merely correcting the guy that said that inferred a digital signal is the same as a sine wave...my initial response was that some will prefer vinyl to digital media and visa versa...what have i said that was incorrect? What is your point?

 

My point was simply that you argued the subject back and forth repeating yourself. Dave's (Daudio) comment about you not knowing as much as you think you know is valid, as is his comment that "there are lots of folks here on CA who know a good deal about the subject(s)" from whom you could learn. That's all.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

Link to comment
My point was simply that you argued the subject back and forth repeating yourself. Dave's (Daudio) comment about you not knowing as much as you think you know is valid, as is his comment that "there are lots of folks here on CA who know a good deal about the subject(s)" from whom you could learn. That's all.

I don't believe i have stated that I know a lot. On the contrary, i know there are TONS of people here that are a LOT more knowledgeable than me....none of which i bet would argue the few fundamentals that i stated as facts. There is a lot here I have learned, and a lot more that i want to learn, but some of it is a lot deeper than I have any interest in going on certain topics. I am happy with the fundamentals i know. I do have interest in learning more about DSD, Jriver, HDMI 2.0, Future technologies, speakers, and a wealth of a lot more information. I just have no interest in "learning" more about things that i believe are mute points that are subjective concepts that conflict with basic fundamentals....e.g. that an analog signal can be digitized and then the original waveform reproduced with 100% accuracy. There is no reason to debate that, because it is simply impossible. The OP said it best when he said it would take an infinite sampling to accomplish. And again, i am not going to debate what is audible and what is not. There is also no denying that some music i like better on vinyl (usually not as harsh) for the equipment wihtin my budget...although i will be the first to say that this DSD stuff is the first stuff I have seen that has come close to taking the edge out (in my budget).

 

I hope i clarified enough, such that no one sees anythign worth debating. I clearly am here for the learning aspect, not the debating aspect, but when i am trounced on by someone that infers a digital signal is the same as an analog signal, i will not be shy to correct him/her in their lunacy.

Link to comment

Mike, give it a rest and go listen to some music, hopefully giving it your undivided attention!

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

Link to comment
You realize of course that almost all music released has been into a digital editing package such as ProTools at some point even if it is finally released on vinyl.

 

If you are referring to older vinyl, then no, i didn't know that. I know that newer stuff is certainly digitized before laid out on vinyl, but is that true for the stuff i grew up listening to also? If so, then that is a good point...and I am not sure why some recordings sound better on vinyl. Interesting point.

Link to comment
If you are referring to older vinyl, then no, i didn't know that. I know that newer stuff is certainly digitized before laid out on vinyl, but is that true for the stuff i grew up listening to also? If so, then that is a good point...and I am not sure why some recordings sound better on vinyl. Interesting point.

 

Mike if you buy LPs pressed before digital came into use they are pure analog, look for dates prior to the early 1980s, except for early adopters such as Telarc whose first digital recording was in 1978. Basically if the LP has no UPC (Universal product code) it is likely pure analog.

 

Kumakuma should have said that "almost all commercial music released since the mid-1980s or remastered since the 1980s have been into a digital editing package such as ProTools at some point even if it is finally released on vinyl." which would be correct.

 

Many reissue LP labels are lazy and settle for a digital music file to master the LP version. However some labels are pure analog from start to finish such as Analogue Productions and Pure Pleasure Records.

 

So for new issues read the fine print, for older LPs look for Direct to Disc LPs (my favorites are Sheffield Lab, Crystal Clear and M&K) and LPs without a UPC code. Also the older Reference Recordings LPs from the 1980s and 1990s clearly state they are "Pure Analogue".

I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

Link to comment
...

My exact point. I said i wasn't going to argue what is audible and what wasnt.

You agreed with my fact, that you cannot have 100% accuracy.

 

True. We all know that. Bringing it up again as an arguing point could be taken as trolling. There's been some debate about how long it would be before you got around to it.

 

I think the only thing you and i disagree on is the algorithms used are a "perfect science" to me that is a very funny statement.

 

It's also a true statement. The algorithms used for reconstruction produce the exact results they are designed to, just like your calculator calculates pi to the number of digits it is designed to do. The art comes in writing an algorithm that produces a result that's close enough for rock'n'roll while producing an answer some time before the heat death of the universe.

 

And my MAIN point was the OP that suggestion that a digital output is the same as an analog output...or that there aren't breaks in a digital signal....snicker...

 

The OP said neither. I note that the thread was on track before you weighed in.

"People hear what they see." - Doris Day

The forum would be a much better place if everyone were less convinced of how right they were.

Link to comment
Kumakuma should have said that "almost all commercial music released since the mid-1980s or remastered since the 1980s have been into a digital editing package such as ProTools at some point even if it is finally released on vinyl." which would be correct.

 

Thanks for the correction. I should have said "almost all music that anyone want to listen to...". I would rather stick the sharp end of a pencil up my nose than listen to most music targeted at audiophiles. A good example is the dreck that David Chesky puts out under his name.

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

Link to comment
Thanks for the correction. I should have said "almost all music that anyone want to listen to...". I would rather stick the sharp end of a pencil up my nose than listen to most music targeted at audiophiles. A good example is the dreck that David Chesky puts out under his name.

 

Are you also including in that, joint efforts by the Chesky Brothers such as "Rebecca Pidgeon-Retrospective "?

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

Link to comment
sounds subjective to me....

as far as what i have read, no. i know what i know and that is enough for me..i have better things to waste my time on. the facts that i do know is as deep as i will ever care to go into it. I have no desire to become someone who can debate or present facts on the topic beyond the fundamental facts that I am already aware of...you will need to find someone else to debate with. I just know that once an analog signal is digitized it will never be reproduced exactly to it's original waveform....just as OP above stated, that would require infinite sampling...to which i agree. Again, i am not going to debate what is audible and what is not, as that debate can never be won....so read as much as you want, so you can win others over...you won't win me (wink).

 

Mike,

 

There comes a point in every discussion where I realize that I have more to gain by listening than I do by talking, and I behave accordingly. Based on your responses I believe that it's time for you to consider this. (wink)

That I ask questions? I am more concerned about being stupid than looking like I might be.

Link to comment
Are you also including in that, joint efforts by the Chesky Brothers such as "Rebecca Pidgeon-Retrospective "?

 

Definitely not! I am talking about his own stuff. I love all of Ms. Pidgeon's Chesky albums as well as some of their more recent efforts such as the Amber Rubath, Wycliffe Gordon, and C.C. Colletti binuaral albums.

 

In my opinion, the music has to come first, not the recording quality. And this is where a lot of "audiophile albums" fail. They are mainly boring albums sold to people who want to spend their time listening to their equipment or showing it off to others.

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

Link to comment
Mike if you buy LPs pressed before digital came into use they are pure analog, look for dates prior to the early 1980s, except for early adopters such as Telarc whose first digital recording was in 1978. Basically if the LP has no UPC (Universal product code) it is likely pure analog.

 

Kumakuma should have said that "almost all commercial music released since the mid-1980s or remastered since the 1980s have been into a digital editing package such as ProTools at some point even if it is finally released on vinyl." which would be correct.

 

Yea, since digital music didn't come into mainstream until around 1982 and all my vinyl is older than that, and what i would even consider digitizing.

Link to comment
There's been some debate about how long it would be before you got around to it.

 

it's already been evident to me that you travel in flocks...

 

a debate how long it would take before i got around to what? I see your "flock" repeating the same thing more often than i repeat myself. Again, what am I guilty of? What am I doing or saying that is so wrong? I don't have my panties in a bunch. Are you suggesting that I can't say that I prefer the vinyl reproduction of sound more than digitized (again talking about stuff before 1980) in many cases? I can say that as often as someone else can say they prefer digital. At least i conceded that with the higher 5.6 mhz stuff it seems to have opened it up....whatever...such a "sensative" group.

Link to comment

It's also a true statement. The algorithms used for reconstruction produce the exact results they are designed to, just like your calculator calculates pi to the number of digits it is designed to do.

 

Also, if it's a perfect science, then why does one of the MAJOR manufacturers "PROCLAIM" there multi-thousand dollar DAC is superior by virtue of their patented algorithm that is x amount more accurate and is the reason for increased fidelity? Look at the "Antelope" ad. If nothing is lost, and it is a perfect science, why not buy the least expensive one if nothing is lost in the algorithm or one algorithm isn't better than another?

 

NEW STANDARD, POSTED JAN 7 2014 (granted they are talking DSD, but they also suggest their 64 bit alogrithm is superior).

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/blog/antelope-audio-zodiac-platinum-dsd-dacheadphone-amp-debuts-at-ces-setting-new-standard-for-accuracy-transparency-imaging-and-dynamics/

Link to comment
Mike,

 

There comes a point in every discussion where I realize that I have more to gain by listening than I do by talking, and I behave accordingly. Based on your responses I believe that it's time for you to consider this. (wink)

 

If you don't have dsd dac yet, i think you should start listening...i have only been at this a week or two, and have one....and i will be downgrading it to a $350 one in very near future, before i get caught paying too much for old technology.

 

When i feel people start talking to me instead of at me, I will settle down. I do listen, when i have something to hear....and many individuals here do....but many are also like sheep. I respect those that respect me. I am the novice here...many treat me right, so this message is not to everyone.

Link to comment
If you don't have dsd dac yet, i think you should start listening...i have only been at this a week or two, and have one....and i will be downgrading it to a $350 one in very near future, before i get caught paying too much for old technology.

 

When i feel people start talking to me instead of at me, I will settle down. I do listen, when i have something to hear....and many individuals here do....but many are also like sheep. I respect those that respect me. I am the novice hear...many treat me right, so this message is not to everyone.

 

Buying and downgrading doesn't sound like a best practice to me. I'll keep what I have until I'm satisfied I have the knowledge to make an informed choice. I think you mistakenly believed that you could do that in a week. Don't listen to me, Mike, listen to yourself, it's quite entertaining.

That I ask questions? I am more concerned about being stupid than looking like I might be.

Link to comment
Buying and downgrading doesn't sound like a best practice to me. I'll keep what I have until I'm satisfied I have the knowledge to make an informed choice. I think you mistakenly believed that you could do that in a week. Don't listen to me, Mike, listen to yourself, it's quite entertaining.

 

My budget doesn't allow me to keep it. I bought it for the sole purpose of trying DSD. I know better than to keep new technology too long. You are welcome to do what you want with your money, and I can do what i want with mine. Don't worry, i won't be around much longer...i came here for the knowledge I have gained from helpful individuals...i am just about content and gained what i hoped to....

 

I am glad I entertained you....i found many of you entertaining as well.

Link to comment
Buying and downgrading doesn't sound like a best practice to me. I'll keep what I have until I'm satisfied I have the knowledge to make an informed choice. I think you mistakenly believed that you could do that in a week. Don't listen to me, Mike, listen to yourself, it's quite entertaining.

 

PS, try the KORG when you can get it on amazon prime....that will be my next stop...after i am off this board.

too-da-loo buckwheat.

 

unless you are one that has lots of extra money, then feel free to buy what you want...my research is just about done.

Link to comment
My budget doesn't allow me to keep it. I bought it for the sole purpose of trying DSD. I know better than to keep new technology too long. You are welcome to do what you want with your money, and I can do what i want with mine. Don't worry, i won't be around much longer...i came here for the knowledge I have gained from helpful individuals...i am just about content and gained what i hoped to....

 

I am glad I entertained you....i found many of you entertaining as well.

 

Don't let the door hit you on the way out...

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...