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Why not.....dlna....


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With all the debate of USB vs HDMI due to HDMI "jitter"....

 

Provided the HDMI jitter is a real issue that isn't easily compensated (which i don't believe), but even if i did concede that argument, why not DLNA?

 

Why not let your BLU-RAY or AVR process your digital files directly via DLNA? Take USB and HDMI out of the picture completely.

 

Are there any reasons not to use DLNA?

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Nope, file restriction has nothing to do with DLNA spec & everything to do with implementation (ie what file types the players/renderers and the servers themselves support). Never heard of this MP4 video file restriction nor even an MP3 one (if that's what you actually meant to say).

 

Incidentally, the use of a decent DMS with good transcoding capabilities usually sorts out most file playback incompatibilities.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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With all the debate of USB vs HDMI due to HDMI "jitter"....

 

Provided the HDMI jitter is a real issue that isn't easily compensated (which i don't believe), but even if i did concede that argument, why not DLNA?

 

Why not let your BLU-RAY or AVR process your digital files directly via DLNA? Take USB and HDMI out of the picture completely.

 

Are there any reasons not to use DLNA?

Ditto nope. Always been in favour of the player being used as such and not as a mere tethered DAC, wherever possible.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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Nope, file restriction has nothing to do with DLNA spec & everything to do with implementation (ie what file types the players/renderers and the servers themselves support). Never heard of this MP4 video file restriction nor even an MP3 one (if that's what you actually meant to say).

 

Incidentally, the use of a decent DMS with good transcoding capabilities usually sorts out most file playback incompatibilities.

I meant MP4....like HD videos you can caputre off youtube with browser plugin....they can be converted to wav though with foobar...so it wasn't a necessity for me....ok, good to know....taht may be the right path for me....still doing more research...thanks.

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Incidentally, the use of a decent DMS with good transcoding capabilities usually sorts out most file playback incompatibilities.

DMS? Another one for me to research...I am guessing that they make external DMS that many people here buy in addition to their external DAC...or are you referring to circuitry inside bluray/avr?

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No. DMS - Digital Media Server aka UPnP/DLNA Server. Required to maintain and provide the media library for DLNA supporting players & renderers (aka DMP & DMR) to stream the media files from.

 

Certainly no need to buy any, since there are some very decent free ones , eg, for music files: MinimServer and Asset UPnP. Even Foobar2000 can be converted into one if you install the free foo_UPnP plugin for it.

 

BTW, if you are doing your Youtube playing (or any other sound making activity) from a Windows machine you can capture it's sound to a wav or mp3 file and live stream (well with a couple of seconds buffering delay) to a DLNA supporting device via the free Stream What You Hear (SWYH) UPnP/DLNA server.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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I think the OP believes that because a DLNA not physically connected to a computer like one tethered via a USB umbilical cord that jitter and clocking are no longer a factor. That is not the case.

 

No..i haven't really looked at closely yet. I am just looking at any options besides an expensive external DAC. I am just wondering what audiophiles consider about the sound quality of DLNA to a networked AVR's internal DAC.

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No. DMS - Digital Media Server aka UPnP/DLNA Server. Required to maintain and provide the media library for DLNA supporting players & renderers (aka DMP & DMR) to stream the media files from.

 

Certainly no need to buy any, since there are some very decent free ones , eg, for music files: MinimServer and Asset UPnP. Even Foobar2000 can be converted into one if you install the free foo_UPnP plugin for it.

 

BTW, if you are doing your Youtube playing (or any other sound making activity) from a Windows machine you can capture it's sound to a wav or mp3 file and live stream (well with a couple of seconds buffering delay) to a DLNA supporting device via the free Stream What You Hear (SWYH) UPnP/DLNA server.

 

OK thanks! Definetely stuff here to research ...appreciate the input!

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I think the OP believes that because a DLNA not physically connected to a computer like one tethered via a USB umbilical cord that jitter and clocking are no longer a factor. That is not the case.
No..i haven't really looked at closely yet. I am just looking at any options besides an expensive external DAC. I am just wondering what audiophiles consider about the sound quality of DLNA to a networked AVR's internal DAC.
Sure, any jitter due to the player producing the audio signal being passed to the DAC will still need to be considered, but is confined to the internal workings of the dedicated player with internal DAC as opposed to it being a shared factor between computer player and attached external DAC. Having said that there's a better chance of controlling it within the confines of one piece of kit.

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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Nope.

I disagree. There are many reasons why someone wouldn't want to use DLNA. Complexity, setup, wired ethernet, gapless issues, file compression issues, DLNA incompatibility between devices, etc...

 

These can be worked-around but I don't think the OP wants to spend the money it takes to get an advanced renderer and setup the right server, control point.

Founder of Audiophile Style

UPDATED: My Audio Systems -> https://audiophile.style/system

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I disagree. There are many reasons why someone wouldn't want to use DLNA. Complexity, setup, wired ethernet, gapless issues, file compression issues, DLNA incompatibility between devices, etc...

 

These can be worked-around but I don't think the OP wants to spend the money it takes to get an advanced renderer and setup the right server, control point.

 

When you say setup the right server, I am not sure what hardware you are referring to. Being a computer person, i have high-end computer servers already, but i am not sure that would be necessary even. As far as complexity in setting up, i don't think that is a big deal either...i have set up dlna to watch movies on my home entertainment system years ago, but this is the first time I am investigating using DLNA to an AVR for stereo, but i don't suspect the setup would be that different. My main interest has to do with the quality of DLNA-> AVR as compared to a dragonfly, as compared to PC HDMI->AVR. Someone in another thread here mentioned that they preferred the OPPO DAC->Marantz over DLNA->Marantz.

As far as compatibility issues, I am currently looking at using Jriver to a new Denon/Marantz HDMI 2.0 reciever, but that is open to possible change.

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When you say setup the right server, I am not sure what hardware you are referring to. Being a computer person, i have high-end computer servers already, but i am not sure that would be necessary even. As far as complexity in setting up, i don't think that is a big deal either...i have set up dlna to watch movies on my home entertainment system already, but this is the first time I am investigating using DLNA to an AVR, but i don't suspect the setup would be that different. My main interest has to do with the quality of DLNA-> AVR as compared to a dragonfly, as compared to PC HDMI->AVR. Someone in another thread mentioned that they preferred the dragonfly over HDMI, but preferred OPPO DAC->Marantz over DLNA->Marantz.

As far as compatibility issues, I am currently looking at using Jriver to a new Denon/Marantz HDMI 2.0 reciever, but that is open to possible change.

I highly recommend visiting the PS Audio forums to see what kind of issues people have had using DLNA.

Founder of Audiophile Style

UPDATED: My Audio Systems -> https://audiophile.style/system

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PS -

My gut is telling me that i will probably use PC HDMI 2.0 either direct to Marantz AVR w/HDMI 2.0 or maybe direct to a sony or oppo blu ray -> Marantz, but if the jitters jitter too much(grin), i will likely go with a dragonfly or other low cost ext dac, but I am leaving DLNA open as an option. I was mostly curious about what the audiophiles here that have this configuration think about the SQ.

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I highly recommend visiting the PS Audio forums to see what kind of issues people have had using DLNA.
Nothing wrong with using our very own 'Networking, Networked Audio and Streaming' forum for searching for (and posting) UPnP/DLNA problems and solutions!

We are far more united and have far more in common with each other than things that divide us.

-- Jo Cox

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Nothing wrong with using our very own 'Networking, Networked Audio and Streaming' forum for searching for (and posting) UPnP/DLNA problems and solutions!

I agree (obviously).

 

I just wanted Mike to see all the issues associated with DLNA. Many of the issues are out of his control, no matter how tech savvy he thinks he is.

Founder of Audiophile Style

UPDATED: My Audio Systems -> https://audiophile.style/system

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Probably nothing i didn't run across configuring DLNA to my samsung for movies. I have an open thread on JRIVER website, but i will check out PS audio forums as well...thanks.

Mike - There is nothing wrong with confidence in your skills. However, when you see all the issues that can pop up and you have no control over the resolution you may be surprised. Start with gapless playback as an area to research

 

I'm a huge fan of DLNA but also realize there is no free lunch.

Founder of Audiophile Style

UPDATED: My Audio Systems -> https://audiophile.style/system

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Mike - There is nothing wrong with confidence in your skills. However, when you see all the issues that can pop up and you have no control over the resolution you may be surprised. Start with gapless playback as an area to research

 

I'm a huge fan of DLNA but also realize there is no free lunch.

 

Thanks. I really like just using windows and foobar and want simplicity, so it will likely be a last resort, but will at least try it if I am not happy with HDMI 2.0 before spending $500+ on an external dac. I may end up buying that external DAC, but i will see if i can satisfy my unskilled ears without spending the $500 first. The more I look, there seems to be many professed audiophiles that suggest spending more than $200 on an external dac is unnecessary, and I don't even consider myself an audiophile. I do plan on spending up to $1k on an avr with hdmi 2.0, and will spend up to $1K on an external DAC if I can justify it, but i have to hear a noticable improvement over all other options first...and that may end up being the case, i just dont think so, but certainly have it budgeted if i find differently.

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I, sometimes, use DLNA with Jriver to the Oppo BDP103 and that's connected to a NovaPre via Coaxial. It works flawlessly with anything I throw at it, however it just doesnt sound as good (to my ears) as my laptop connected via USB to the Peachtree. Maybe it's the use of the EQ or any of the other functions Jriver provides. Maybe I'm just crazy.

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Thanks. I really like just using windows and foobar and want simplicity, so it will likely be a last resort, but will at least try it if I am not happy with HDMI 2.0 before spending $500+ on an external dac. I may end up buying that external DAC, but i will see if i can satisfy my unskilled ears without spending the $500 first. The more I look, there seems to be many professed audiophiles that suggest spending more than $200 on an external dac is unnecessary, and I don't even consider myself an audiophile. I do plan on spending up to $1k on an avr with hdmi 2.0, and will spend up to $1K on an external DAC if I can justify it, but i have to hear a noticable improvement over all other options first...and that may end up being the case, i just dont think so, but certainly have it budgeted if i find differently.

 

Mike,

 

I am not pimping MSB but I would have you look at their solution just to give you an example of an elegant DLNA solution, albeit it one with issues that Chris has raised. The UMT+ acts as a DLNA renderer using the OPPO 103 chipset, then buffers the data bits to memory where their PROI2S board is clocked to their DAC. So basically the issues of a USB tethered computer are eliminated and the bit stream flowing to their DAC is extremely accurate and there is no tweaking, USB board differences, optimization files, etc. HOWEVER, gapless is still an issue, streaming can occasionally be an issue with high res stuff, so there are issues. Of course, one can compare such a solution to a USB server to see which they like better. I am still demoing the UMT+, the jury is out as to SQ, but I can tell you the server solution via USB is much more responsive.

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