SATA 2 sounds better than SATA 3 ?

[SuperRoo]

"SATA 2 port has better sound quality when compared to the SATA 3 port"

 

Paul Pang has this on his website.

 

SHOPPING AREA: SATA CABLE

 

I'm going to move my music SSD to SATA 2 port and see if it makes a difference.

[SuperRoo]

After paying with for a while I have to agree. I would have guessed faster is better. I'm leaving it on SATA 2.

[SuperRoo]

I had no idea he was a charlatan. I ran across a reference to his PCI USB card which was highly praised.

[AlainGr]

SupeRu,

 

As you will see, there are different camps... Each of us has its references and for one 20$ will be enough while for another it will be 150$, etc... There is of course a lot of subjectivity in this and I have to admit that I made expenses on cables that I would probably not do again. This being said, you can always check on different forums (or Google about it) to see what others think of a seller. There are pros and there are cons. I have a Paul Pang PCIe USB 3 card and am happy with it. But I also bought the SOtM PCIe USB 3 card and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

I think Paul Pang makes good stuff by the way.

 

Regards,

[sandyk]

Paul Pang, the consumer fraud expert selling multi hundred dollar sata cables.

 

 

What are you saying here ? Are you saying that Paul Pang is a fraudster in general, or that there can be no difference in sound quality between any correctly functioning SATA cables ?

[ringenesherre]

What are you saying here ? Are you saying that Paul Pang is a fraudster in general, or that there can be no difference in sound quality between any correctly functioning SATA cables ?

 

I can only guess, but I think Diogenes hints at that it is extremely unlikely that reasonably built SATA cables can make a difference to sound quality.

 

Regarding error rates with different cable, if your cable is not the worst $0.01 variant, there are no significant differences:

SATA cables: Is there a difference? - Puget Custom Computers

SATA 3Gb/s vs. 6Gb/s Cable Performance (Revisited) - Puget Custom Computers

 

Now, personally, do I think some people could benefit from a better cable in their system? Sure. But I see no need to go beyond $10 (and that's being on the safe side).

 

In my opinion, selling SATA cables for hundreds of dollars each with an idea of improving sound quality is indeed consumer fraud. It will be hard, though, to prove this in a court ...

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Mr Free]

Sound has nothing to do with speed, !!! "SATA cables: Is there a difference? - Puget Custom Computers

SATA 3Gb/s vs. 6Gb/s Cable Performance (Revisited) - Puget Custom Computers"

[sandyk]

I can only guess, but I think Diogenes hints at that it is extremely unlikely that reasonably built SATA cables can make a difference to sound quality.

 

Regarding error rates with different cable, if your cable is not the worst $0.01 variant, there are no significant differences:

SATA cables: Is there a difference? - Puget Custom Computers

SATA 3Gb/s vs. 6Gb/s Cable Performance (Revisited) - Puget Custom Computers

 

Now, personally, do I think some people could benefit from a better cable in their system? Sure. But I see no need to go beyond $10 (and that's being on the safe side).

 

In my opinion, selling SATA cables for hundreds of dollars each with an idea of improving sound quality is indeed consumer fraud. It will be hard, though, to prove this in a court ...

 

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Peter

I found Paul Pang's 300 Euro SATA cables a bit rich too, and there is no way that I would ever pay that kind of money to even try them.

I did however replace a couple of generic internal SATA cables with much shorter SATA 3 6GBs cables that were no longer draped over the motherboard, and far more direct..

As you are well aware , the SATA3 cables have 2 internal screened cables instead of the 7 side by side wires in a generic SATA cable.

There was a definite improvement that was verified by a new rips of the same track being compared with a previous rip already saved by a member of another forum in Spain. He also did the same and sent me both versions of his rips. We both chose the new rips as sounding better under non sighted conditions. A Sydney EE has also verified under non sighted conditions that a rip of the track "So Far Away-Dire Straits" sounded better when ripped with the broadband modem unplugged from the PC. Somehow, RF/EMI does affect the SQ on playback, and even when ripping. He has now demonstrated this to a friend who is also a qualified E.E. without me being present, and just using my Corsair Voyager.

Not that I ever expect you as a computer scientist to agree with any of this though, so let's choose to disagree and let those who do hear a difference when using Paul Pang's SATA cables resume their discussions without any more BS about being ripped off. How much would your time be worth if you spent many hours fabricating SATA cables manually ?

Presumably, there is also time involved in testing the final product. It's up to the buyer to decide if a product not made by machine is worth paying extra for.

 

Lets not even go there about correct impedance issues etc. ?

 

Kind Regards

Alex

[ted_b]

I had no idea he was a charlatan. I ran across a reference to his PCI USB card which was highly praised.

 

He isn't. His mods are quite worthwhile (USB card is wonderful) and his USB and SATA cables make a difference. I have tried them, unlike Diogenes, who hasn't. I really wish people were accountable for their comments, especially those who historically have no real world feedback about any of the new ideas. It's easy to sit in your basement and spout "truths". My recommendation is get out there and try these things in the real world; experience is still worthwhile. Paul (and others in audio who are trying new things) have no-risk trial policies. I know; I've returned his first SATA cable cuz it didn't fit in my tight pc build. But no way am I returning his USB card or his TZyun III USB cable.

 

C'mon folks, let's hear REAL feedback, not "it can't work; my slide rule says it can't work". Or what's with "I doubt" or "I think" XYZ does this or that. How about...I tried it and it does/doesn't work.

[AlainGr]

(deleted)

[sandyk]

He isn't. His mods are quite worthwhile (USB card is wonderful) and his USB and SATA cables make a difference. I have tried them, unlike Diogenes, who hasn't. I really wish people were accountable for their comments, especially those who historically have no real world feedback about any of the new ideas. It's easy to sit in your basement and spout "truths". My recommendation is get out there and try these things in the real world; experience is still worthwhile. Paul (and others in audio who are trying new things) have no-risk trial policies. I know; I've returned his first SATA cable cuz it didn't fit in my tight pc build. But no way am I returning his USB card or his TZyun III USB cable.

 

C'mon folks, let's hear REAL feedback, not "it can't work; my slide rule says it can't work". Or what's with "I doubt" or "I think" XYZ does this or that. How about...I tried it and it does/doesn't work.

 

I agree with those comments

I exchanged several communications with Paul in DIY Audio when he came under the same kind of relentless attacks from the usual "bit are bits" crowd, when he first started discussing these "impossible" things.

[[email protected]]

I agree with those comments

I exchanged several communications with Paul in DIY Audio when he came under the same kind of relentless attacks from the usual "bit are bits" crowd, when he first started discussing these "impossible" things.

 

One cannot argue the facts - Higher quality Sata cables reduces spelling errors in Word documents, decreases computational errors in spreadsheets, generates far more accurate drawings in AutoCAD and last but not least improves the sound quality of digital music. What more can one say.

[sandyk]

One cannot argue the facts - Higher quality Sata cables reduces spelling errors in Word documents, decreases computational errors in spreadsheets, generates far more accurate drawings in AutoCAD and last but not least improves the sound quality of digital music. What more can one say.

 

Here we go again. Another smart ass refugee from DIY Audio. (smile)

IF you are genuinely interested I can provide links via a PM to HiFi Critic Forum threads (Martin Colloms) where it is also shown by a series of 6 Blind A/B/A/ 3 minute sessions that .wav files with identical checksums can sound different.

System noise appears to be the culprit. I can also provide copies of messages (FYI ONLY ) from a well qualified Sydney EE. who is also a DIY Audio member.

Alex

[Skeptic]

IF you are genuinely interested I can provide links via a PM to HiFi Critic Forum threads (Martin Colloms) where it is also shown by a series of 6 Blind A/B/A/ 3 minute sessions that .wav files with identical checksums can sound different.

Our auditory memory is only a fraction of that. (seconds!)

You can't do an accurate test if the comparisons are three minutes apart.

 

If you believe two files with identical checksums can sound different, you need to read up on what the probability of that occurring is.

[[email protected]]

I have tried different hard drives external (USB) one internal (SATA) and another (IDE) and I am sorry to report there is absolutely no difference what-so-ever.

 

Data is being buffered so what does it matter what comes off the discs, or are you saying the the BER of Sata is so high that the data on disc and what is being converted by your audio card or DAC is actually so different.

 

Sorry sandyk this is a general remark and not one aimed at you personally, but a new member here evaluating ideas and experience of a wider spectrum of music listeners and lovers.

 

Unfortunately reviews on the internet are more often absolutely meaningless and consists adjectives added to equally nebulous descriptions of subjective perceptions written by anyone who has mastered the skill of typing regardless of age gender, qualification or anything other than their own perception of their abilities.

 

You refer to a well qualified Sydney EE who impresses you with his abilities as an EE, what if he is actually tone deaf, it would make no less of a well qualified Sydney EE.

 

When you talk about system noise I beg to differ, digital data is free of noise and it depends on your conversion method from digital to the analog domain and the accuracy of the method. If there is any noise due to digital uncertainty then blame the converter.

 

Kindest regards

 

Nico

[goldsdad]

If you believe two files with identical checksums can sound different, you need to read up on what the probability of that occurring is.

 

Sandyk's audio commandments may be abridged to: all bits are equal, but some bits are more equal than others.

[coxhaus]

I have tried different hard drives external (USB) one internal (SATA) and another (IDE) and I am sorry to report there is absolutely no difference what-so-ever.

 

Data is being buffered so what does it matter what comes off the discs, or are you saying the the BER of Sata is so high that the data on disc and what is being converted by your audio card or DAC is actually so different.

 

Sorry sandyk this is a general remark and not one aimed at you personally, but a new member here evaluating ideas and experience of a wider spectrum of music listeners and lovers.

 

Unfortunately reviews on the internet are more often absolutely meaningless and consists adjectives added to equally nebulous descriptions of subjective perceptions written by anyone who has mastered the skill of typing regardless of age gender, qualification or anything other than their own perception of their abilities.

 

You refer to a well qualified Sydney EE who impresses you with his abilities as an EE, what if he is actually tone deaf, it would make no less of a well qualified Sydney EE.

 

When you talk about system noise I beg to differ, digital data is free of noise and it depends on your conversion method from digital to the analog domain and the accuracy of the method. If there is any noise due to digital uncertainty then blame the converter.

 

Kindest regards

 

Nico

 

I am sorry you cannot hear the difference in hard drives. I can hear the difference in hard drives, USB cables, SATA cables and even memory buffering. I also hear a big difference in quality power cords plugged into the computer. I have no technical reason just what I hear.

[sandyk]

nico_

 

I have sent you a P.M.

Alex

[Skeptic]

I am sorry you cannot hear the difference in hard drives. I can hear the difference in hard drives, USB cables, SATA cables and even memory buffering. I also hear a big difference in quality power cords plugged into the computer. I have no technical reason just what I hear.

Something in your system is broken.

 

It's certainly possible on faulty hardware to hear the things you describe - I had an old PC where you could actually hear noise as you moved the mouse around for example.

 

As I understand it, this is most often caused by a ground loop, but it's been years since I've had to troubleshoot that kind of problem.

[coxhaus]

Something in your system is broken.

 

It's certainly possible on faulty hardware to hear the things you describe - I had an old PC where you could actually hear noise as you moved the mouse around for example.

 

As I understand it, this is most often caused by a ground loop, but it's been years since I've had to troubleshoot that kind of problem.

 

Maybe your system is broken and that is why you cannot hear the differences.

[wgscott]

Maybe logic is broken and we cannot infer a implies c, even if if a implies b and b implies c.

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Maybe logic is broken and we cannot infer a implies c, even if if a implies b and b implies c.

 

Because, as we all know, if it is logical it must be the whole, complete, Truth.

 

Wait. What's the difference between validity and soundness, again?

 

My favorite audiophile arguments are those that include some variation on this: "Well, I can't imagine it, therefore it must be false." As if imagination was somehow a deciding factor on reality.

 

Then there are these: "Well, my system doesn't show it, therefore it must not be real." As if your experience with your system were valid (or even relevant) for all systems, everywhere -- or any other system, anywhere.

 

And then there are these: "Well, this can't be true because of [insert some mathematical, electrical, chemical, or physical principle here]". As if Natural Law were ever in any interesting sense true, or a reasonable replacement for actual experience (especially) when said experience is so cheaply achieved, or that any methodological objection is in some way a valid contradiction to an existential claim. Okay, that last bit is tendentious, but it's a hoot to argue.

 

Not to say that either side is right or wrong here, but if we're gonna play with words, lets at least keep the goalposts clearly in view.

 

Anyway, game on.

[javb92]

someone has find sonic differences between a ssd sata III (like the Samsung 850 pro) and ssd sata II (such as the Samsung PM810, Intel 320 or Silicon Power E20) in a MOBO that only have SATA III port? ; because my mainboard only accepts sata III and according paul pang, an option to take ,its to buy a sata II ssd to force the mode sata ii.

 

I am interested in buying a ssd, but I cant reach a decision after having read that what says paul pang in her blog.

a thanks in advance

[javb92]

**I've come across with another user comment that detects the sonic difference between mode sata III and II, where a sata ii ssd sounds better than sata mode III ssd, and named other ssd's models like OCZ Vertex 2 (not SLC) and Intel X25-E, (Keeper) 711 Series (SLC)

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f7-disk-storage-music-library-storage/solid-state-drive-recommendations-26962/index3.html#post501214

[sandyk]

**I've come across with another user comment that detects the sonic difference between mode sata III and II, where a sata ii ssd sounds better than sata mode III ssd, and named other ssd's models like OCZ Vertex 2 (not SLC) and Intel X25-E, (Keeper) 711 Series (SLC)

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f7-disk-storage-music-library-storage/solid-state-drive-recommendations-26962/index3.html#post501214

 

A marked improvement to the +5V power supply of an SSD will result in a much greater improvement that simple cable changes etc.