SOTM USB card vs PPAstudio USB Card v2

[ALRAINBOW]

I guess I should shut up now. As it appears there is no wrong or right . Sorry. But a battery or l PSU does matter big time in any USB converter or CPU server .

al

[InfernoSTi]

Very good point but I am thinking that a Master Somm can only tell what the differences are, not really if the wine is "better". They are masters of wine discrimination. Better is subjective. "Good" is determined by a bunch of folks with similar tastes agreeing. For example, I do not really like Bordeaux. In a blind tasting I might be able to identify it and possibly even tell that it was a high quality vintage but that does not mean that I would like it. On the other hand I love Rioja and hardly ever met one I did not enjoy...even cheap ones.

 

I have changed a ton of things in my system over the years that made an audible difference but I am the only one to determine if that was a "good" change or not. There is really no absolute to compare to, just what pleases us. That is all I am trying to say. The arguing about how something should not sound good based upon theory without ever hearing it seems a bit shaky to me.

 

I could never go back to listening to the system I had even a month ago. Once I upgraded to a "CAPS-like" PC with Windows Server 2012 and AO I subjectively moved into a world of greatly enhanced subjective musical pleasure. I am intellectually interested in how changing the OS could make such a big change but only really interested in how much enjoyment it is giving me. I was not trying to say that there are no objective differences, just that all that matters is that you are happy with the sound you are getting. being intellectually stimulated in the process is like icing on the cake however it will not take you far if you do not like what you are hearing. The sport seems to be using your mind to find things that make the sound better for you.

 

Most of us with audiophilia are trapped in the endless cycle of hoping to incrementally improve our sound. We are optimists. It is a sort of ratchet effect locking one into usually more expensive and well thought out gear. Yes, I did say "well thought out". I do believe in science:-) Ours is an endless pursuit that does not seem to plague normal music lovers. In the end however only one person (or perhaps your mate) needs to be satisfied with the result...

 

Climbs down from soap box...

 

I like where you are going and I have reread your earlier post with a new eye to understanding your perspective.

 

What I absolutely agree with is that personal preference and enjoyment is unique to each of us and cannot be predicted by tests, measurements, or the beliefs of others.

 

Perhaps what bothered me was the idea that, as with wine, we are doomed to think our enjoyment is limited to two things: first, what the average person with average skill thinks is "good". This is the classic "couldn't tell red wine from white" or DBT de jour; second, I believe that with education, practice, and experience, our preferences change and our sophistication grows. This second point is the most important aspect of the entire concern I have.

 

I believe that with most things, the more we study, the more we apply ourselves, the more we experience both in depth and breadth, the greater our appreciation of subtle and elusive qualities, those items that allow real pleasure to be experienced. I believe we call this being an aficionado and I believe it is true of audio, of wine, of sport, of literature, of food, of culture, of art, of conversation, etc.

 

I believe that tests that fail to account for attributes that require years of learning to appreciate and enjoy do a disservice to the subject at hand, whether it is art or audio or wine, etc. I think that such tests will always produce results that favor the bland, the average, the middle of the bell curve over the extremes. Yet it is in the extremes that the real joy of being an aficionado can be experienced.

 

What do you think?

 

Best,

John

[coxhaus]

My SOTM USB PCI card is running in core mode fine. I wonder how long they take to break in? At first the sound was edgy with little bass. After a few hours the treble began to relaxed and the bass started to be nice. I guess I need to buy a linear power supply for the SOTM USB card.

[InfernoSTi]

My SOTM USB PCI card is running in core mode fine. I wonder how long they take to break in? At first the sound was edgy with little bass. After a few hours the treble began to relaxed and the bass started to be nice. I guess I need to buy a linear power supply for the SOTM USB card.

 

My PPA took 200 hours and a linear power supply made a huge improvement. I let mine play all day while at work and all night while at sleep. Two weeks later I was fine. Just had to turn off the amp when I was away or asleep. The playlist kept kicking out tunes...

 

John

[AudioPhil]

The PPA card works in core mode others have complained about the sotom and core mode is well

al

 

There seem to be different versions of the SOtM card. I once had one myself, and it worked flawlessly in core mode. But i had a hand full of customers which could not make it work in core mode, that's true.

[AudioPhil]

Phil or Paul Pang?

 

I know Pang is selling a knockout server but wasn't aware of Phil doing the same.

 

Well, it is a Pang knockout server. This is what we used for Al's Build:

 

 

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[TD]- AudiophileOptimizer

- PPA audiophile USB card V2

- PPA RED USB cable, 1m

- PPA SSD 32GB

- PPA SSD 64GB

- 2 x PPA RED SATA cable, 40cm-straight plug, regular size

- 2 x PPA USB-A to SATA silver power cable-100cm, custom made

- PPA Pico-Box PSU (12V), 4-Pin MiniDIN Connector

- 2 x Bakoon BPS-02, 5V (silver)-including USB-Adapter

- MSI Z87M-G43

- Core i7-4790T

- PPA Clock Module Upgrade for MSI Mainboard

- PPA 8GB modified DDR3-1600 RAM (2x4GB)

- PPA DDR3 power filter module (2 modules)

- Red Wine Audio - Black Lightning (LFP Edition)-2 cell pack, 12V, 4-Pin MiniDIN

- A-Tech Mini-Client 2800HP in black

 

 

Best,

Phil

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[Audioclyde]

If I may ask, what does a build like Al's cost (not considering the AO Optimizer, which I already have)?

 

I'm torn between adding another bootcamped Mac Mini (I've had great reliability) with a good external pwr supply vs going with a PC based build; as I'm not competent enough (nor have the time/desire) to do my own pc build, I'd be looking for a 'turnkey' solution like this.....

 

Thanks!

 

Randy

[Priaptor]

I like where you are going and I have reread your earlier post with a new eye to understanding your perspective.

 

What I absolutely agree with is that personal preference and enjoyment is unique to each of us and cannot be predicted by tests, measurements, or the beliefs of others.

 

Perhaps what bothered me was the idea that, as with wine, we are doomed to think our enjoyment is limited to two things: first, what the average person with average skill thinks is "good". This is the classic "couldn't tell red wine from white" or DBT de jour; second, I believe that with education, practice, and experience, our preferences change and our sophistication grows. This second point is the most important aspect of the entire concern I have.

 

I believe that with most things, the more we study, the more we apply ourselves, the more we experience both in depth and breadth, the greater our appreciation of subtle and elusive qualities, those items that allow real pleasure to be experienced. I believe we call this being an aficionado and I believe it is true of audio, of wine, of sport, of literature, of food, of culture, of art, of conversation, etc.

 

I believe that tests that fail to account for attributes that require years of learning to appreciate and enjoy do a disservice to the subject at hand, whether it is art or audio or wine, etc. I think that such tests will always produce results that favor the bland, the average, the middle of the bell curve over the extremes. Yet it is in the extremes that the real joy of being an aficionado can be experienced.

 

What do you think?

 

Best,

John

 

John,

 

There does come a time when to avoid the OCD one must find happiness. However that doesn't mean you don't learn along the way by trial and error.

 

I think the comparison to wine is a decent one. Is one better than the other? With wine many allow others determine their taste for them and puppet what the so called experts tell them instead of what their palate tell them. We all like to see a reviewer, whether it be that of car, wine or audiophile gear that validates our views.

 

However, we all have different tastes and that is why I kind of laugh when people try to "reproduce live". I personally don't know what that means. Live in a crappy hall, live from the orchestra, live from the mezzanine, live as in the studio while the performer is recording, etc?. I have very specific tastes as to what I look for and will be the first to admit my views may be very different than others. The first thing I want is accuracy. There was a time in my earlier days when it was important for me to hear every nuance of a recording and if that meant a rat farting in the corner so be it. However, I quickly learned that systems of that level of detail more often than not came at the expense of fatigue. Way too "hot" for my taste and not very accurate, BUT, so many want their systems to be able to have that detail at the expense of musicality-however if that is what turns a person on, great.

 

Personally, I look for accurate timbre, a wide and deep soundstage and I want to be part of the venue. Even though my speakers are huge, the Nola Concert Grands, I REALLY enjoy a near field experience, something some deplore and and something some love. Why I enjoy speakers like open baffle or omnidirectional or small high quality monitors like in the old days Tablettes or Celestion SL600 and currently Raidho.

 

Having said all the above as it pertains to these cards, #1 is they do matter and #2 they are different and lastly #3 as Barrows always say, "everything matters" and something I have learned is how important the quality of the power is to the performance of our equipment, including these cards.

 

One thing I almost fell prey to was following the maddening crowd allocating my ignored SOTM card to the "for sale" pile until I serendipitously did a shoot out among the three and found the SOTM with a very high quality linear power supply was, IMO, the clear winner pertaining to "MY" tastes.

[mourip]

John,

 

However, we all have different tastes and that is why I kind of laugh when people try to "reproduce live". I personally don't know what that means. Live in a crappy hall, live from the orchestra, live from the mezzanine, live as in the studio while the performer is recording, etc?. I have very specific tastes as to what I look for and will be the first to admit my views may be very different than others. The first thing I want is accuracy. There was a time in my earlier days when it was important for me to hear every nuance of a recording and if that meant a rat farting in the corner so be it. However, I quickly learned that systems of that level of detail more often than not came at the expense of fatigue. Way too "hot" for my taste and not very accurate, BUT, so many want their systems to be able to have that detail at the expense of musicality-however if that is what turns a person on, great.

 

 

+1 Nice response...

 

I especially like the part about "live sound". Reminds me of the now long of tooth "Absolute Sound" idea propagated by the magazine of the same name. What the heck it the absolute sound anyway?

 

Increasingly I am drawn to accurate timber even though I am a sucker for detail. As you mention detail often brings along it's evil twin fatigue.

[InfernoSTi]

John,

 

There does come a time when to avoid the OCD one must find happiness. However that doesn't mean you don't learn along the way by trial and error.

 

I think the comparison to wine is a decent one. Is one better than the other? With wine many allow others determine their taste for them and puppet what the so called experts tell them instead of what their palate tell them. We all like to see a reviewer, whether it be that of car, wine or audiophile gear that validates our views.

 

However, we all have different tastes and that is why I kind of laugh when people try to "reproduce live". I personally don't know what that means. Live in a crappy hall, live from the orchestra, live from the mezzanine, live as in the studio while the performer is recording, etc?. I have very specific tastes as to what I look for and will be the first to admit my views may be very different than others. The first thing I want is accuracy. There was a time in my earlier days when it was important for me to hear every nuance of a recording and if that meant a rat farting in the corner so be it. However, I quickly learned that systems of that level of detail more often than not came at the expense of fatigue. Way too "hot" for my taste and not very accurate, BUT, so many want their systems to be able to have that detail at the expense of musicality-however if that is what turns a person on, great.

 

Personally, I look for accurate timbre, a wide and deep soundstage and I want to be part of the venue. Even though my speakers are huge, the Nola Concert Grands, I REALLY enjoy a near field experience, something some deplore and and something some love. Why I enjoy speakers like open baffle or omnidirectional or small high quality monitors like in the old days Tablettes or Celestion SL600 and currently Raidho.

 

Having said all the above as it pertains to these cards, #1 is they do matter and #2 they are different and lastly #3 as Barrows always say, "everything matters" and something I have learned is how important the quality of the power is to the performance of our equipment, including these cards.

 

One thing I almost fell prey to was following the maddening crowd allocating my ignored SOTM card to the "for sale" pile until I serendipitously did a shoot out among the three and found the SOTM with a very high quality linear power supply was, IMO, the clear winner pertaining to "MY" tastes.

 

In keeping with the theme, there are always those that will "follow the expert" and not experience for themselves the depth and breadth of a particular subject, be it wine, audio, or car. With cars, we would call these people "bench racers" because they would quote magazine reviews and objective stats like horsepower and torque and state definitively that Car A was absolutely faster than Car B. Often was the case when a M series BMW or a Porsche would get passed by me on the track because of everything else that mattered except what the reviews and objective stats said. Not much different than the audio world, really.

 

My overall concern is precisely this issue: people don't take the time to learn for themselves. Your experience with the SOtM USB card is the opposite…you experimented and found what sounded best for you. I did the same with my PPA USB power supply: first a switcher, then a cheap industrial linear, then a better industrial linear, and finally a SOtM Linear Power Supply that was the best of the four. No doubt for me.

 

Getting back to the wine example, though, it does matter that one learn from others. There are real subtleties to be found between what might otherwise be similar wines. There are also unusual wines that one might not find on one's own (Rojas were introduced to me in a pairing class and I've appreciated them more for the fact that I learned from an expert rather than perhaps how I might have otherwise tried one or perhaps never even tried one). There are also certain tastes that are not simple to appreciate without explanation. Yet once you taste them, you enjoy something you never would have before.

 

So yes, we have preferences (red vs white, big/bold vs detailed and subtle, etc). But we must grow and not just stay with our first impressions. This is called life. Good grief, if I didn't appreciate food more than I did in high school, life would be miserable. Same thing for college. Same thing for my 30's.

 

Each stage of appreciation builds on the last one. With audio, I started with just getting a "good sound" that I liked. Then I happened on some incredible tube amps and discovered that there was a lot more variety than I thought. Then I went through a bunch of speakers until I found ones I could listen to for hours and never stop enjoying. Then I found a soundstage and explored that. Then I found hidden detail and chased that trail. Then I figured out that my room was part of the equation and I set up room treatments. Then I did that in two more (different) rooms. Then I figured out that system balance was really important. Then I started chasing a really nice front end. I never stopped having my personal preference but I did grow in my appreciation of audio reproduction. And amazingly, my appreciation of a wider variety of music grew and grew. And that growth brought me even more joy.

 

I would hate if I was still drinking for big bold flavors or worse, safe/simple flavors. This is the value of reading the works of experts and for taking classes and learning from the experiences of others. Likewise, I would hate to still be limited to looking for "sounds good" and very average sounding gear. And I learn so much form reading the works of experts and from the experiences of others with audio.

 

Assuming the best, there is a limited amount of anything we can accomplish in a lifetime. We can leverage more than we could otherwise by learning from the experiences of others. This gives us greater reach in our limited window…and that is a joyful thing.

 

Best,

John

[coxhaus]

There seem to be different versions of the SOtM card. I once had one myself, and it worked flawlessly in core mode. But i had a hand full of customers which could not make it work in core mode, that's true.

 

I have the SOTM USB PCI version of the card. The PCI version does not require a driver so it should run on any OS. The PCI express cards require drivers so they are limited to the OS you have drivers for. I did not check the PCI express card out as I don’t have any PCI express slots in my older motherboard.

 

I have 25 hours on the card and it is getting real good. I can't believe I waited so long to buy one.

[mourip]

I cannot speak about the SOTM card but I put a PPA USB PCIe card into my server today and was just floored by the improvement over the built-in USB. I was already happy with the Windows 2012 R2 running AO in core mode but this really did make another very cheery improvement.

 

I have been a bit stunned as I made improvements in the OS/transport side of things and reaped such great gains. It is like taking a large block of weathered stone and chipping away all that is not a hidden statue until its beauty finally emerges. All of the haziness, lack of focus, odd harmonics, and sharp edge slowly pulled aside until really great, focused, natural, non-fatiguing music is uncovered.

 

Thanks to all who contribute their incremental discoveries on this site!

 

Seems like it is time to update the CAPS server concept to v"2014" and include Windows 2012 with Phil's Audiophile Optimizer...

[thuandb]

Congratulations! And thanks for the good news. I can't wait to hear the music payed on PPA usb card.

[mourip]

BTW. I used the drivers downloaded from the site referenced on the PPA website. The version was a little newer than seen in the screenshot but they installed easily following Phil's instructions above.

[Priaptor]

I must retract my prior comparison. I removed the filters from the JCAT USB card and using my Core Audio Kaia LPS was transformative without the filters. The JCAT without the filter with high quality LPS such as a Kaia rules for me!!

[InfernoSTi]

I must retract my prior comparison. I removed the filters from the JCAT USB card and using my Core Audio Kaia LPS was transformative without the filters. The JCAT without the filter with high quality LPS such as a Kaia rules for me!!

 

Wonderful news! My experience exactly. Congratulations!

 

Best,

John

[sligolad]

BAD BAD Filters....great card though :-))

[Priaptor]

BAD BAD Filters....great card though :-))

 

Yes. I was remiss in "trusting" the recommendation of using the filters. My power is SO clean with my Core Audio Kaia I should have tried this earlier. By far the cleanest bass I have ever garnered from my system which was contesting the system before

[coxhaus]

Yes. I was remiss in "trusting" the recommendation of using the filters. My power is SO clean with my Core Audio Kaia I should have tried this earlier. By far the cleanest bass I have ever garnered from my system which was contesting the system before

 

What does your Core Audio Kala power? Do you use for just your USB card? How do you have your linear configured?

[Priaptor]

What does your Core Audio Kala power? Do you use for just your USB card? How do you have your linear configured?

 

If you go to this page, you can configure it any way you want:

 

Kaia Audiophile Linear Power Supply | Core Audio Technology

 

I got a dual rail with his S3 cords. Not cheap but a fantastic power supply. I am sure, if you want, you could try it with the S1 standard cords as it is included in the cost and ask Ryan for a trial for the better cords. I can't comment as to whether they are better or not as I just went for the better cords.

[fmak]

I must retract my prior comparison. I removed the filters from the JCAT USB card and using my Core Audio Kaia LPS was transformative without the filters. The JCAT without the filter with high quality LPS such as a Kaia rules for me!!

 

Buy a diy supregulator for less than $50 and you can get similar performance.

[coxhaus]

If you go to this page, you can configure it any way you want:

 

Kaia Audiophile Linear Power Supply | Core Audio Technology

 

I got a dual rail with his S3 cords. Not cheap but a fantastic power supply. I am sure, if you want, you could try it with the S1 standard cords as it is included in the cost and ask Ryan for a trial for the better cords. I can't comment as to whether they are better or not as I just went for the better cords.

 

What do you power with this unit? USB, hard drive, motherboard?

[Priaptor]

What do you power with this unit? USB, hard drive, motherboard?

 

12v for the MOBO and 5v for the JCAT USB card.

[highstream]

Wonderful news! My experience exactly. Congratulations!

Best, John

Is removing the filters straight forward?

[Priaptor]

Is removing the filters straight forward?

 

Yes just changing the jumpers.

 

In fact you can leave one USB with the filter enabled and one disabled and compare

 

Very simple